Why do you believe in God?

[catholictiger]

my bishop put it in a great way recently

you must have faith before you can have evidence for god

you can’t find that evidence till you have faith in him

this is a horrible paraphrase hard to quote someone simply by memory

but anyway i believe in god because i have faith in the Eucharist and i have had many holy experiences i guess that’s what you could call it but gifts of the spirit.

the Eucharist is the core of my believe and is the one thing thing that can’t be shaken you can’t change my mind on that, and through that I have grown in my believe.

I start to understand philosophy about god and such.

I can see god in world around me

and so on a so forth but my main reason for belief is the Eucharist which ofcourse is the body soul and divinity of god’s dearly beloved son Jesus Christ (PP from divine mercy )

 

[colmcille1]

my bishop put it in a great way recently

you must have faith before you can have evidence for god

you can’t find that evidence till you have faith in him

this is a horrible paraphrase hard to quote someone simply by memory

but anyway i believe in god because i have faith in the Eucharist and i have had many holy experiences i guess that’s what you could call it but gifts of the spirit.

the Eucharist is the core of my believe and is the one thing thing that can’t be shaken you can’t change my mind on that, and through that I have grown in my believe.

I start to understand philosophy about god and such.

I can see god in world around me

and so on a so forth but my main reason for belief is the Eucharist which ofcourse is the body soul and divinity of god’s dearly beloved son Jesus Christ (PP from divine mercy )

Hi catholictiger,
I can identify with your post.
When I read the posts of atheists etc the same thoughts seeps into my consciousness:
though you (atheists et al) do not believe in God, be assured that He irrefutably believes in you! And if you do not believe in that fact, again you must be reminded that His Love is immeasurably beyond your earthly understanding.
Thanks again for your thoughtful post!
God Bless,
Colmcille1.

 

[kildare]

Everything that we can see and measure in the universe is contingent on something else existing and ultimately on existance itself. (ON or OFF or in binary 1 or 0). Our Lord is that original existance at the heart of not just the beginning of the univse, but on the reason why it does not disappear right now.
As he told Moses, and as Jesus repeated when asked “who are you”, he said “I am”.
E.x.i.s.t.a.n.c.e is the other name of G.o.d.

 

[catholictiger]

Hi catholictiger,
I can identify with your post.
When I read the posts of atheists etc the same thoughts seeps into my consciousness:
though you (atheists et al) do not believe in God, be assured that He irrefutably believes in you! And if you do not believe in that fact, again you must be reminded that His Love is immeasurably beyond your earthly understanding.
Thanks again for your thoughtful post!
God Bless,
Colmcille1.

i deal with atheist alot on the other message board im on and i see what your getting at, I really do think atheist are so determined to find evidence in god that they don’t care about faith. This is why i think its can be hard to convert them with just philosophy arguments or just common since arguments becuase, many arguments for god, have god in the equation and if you can’t get the atheist to put god in that equation then you will have no hope of winning that argument cause much of the evidence for god seems stupid if you don’t put god in that evidence.

while i think its important to defend our church from attacks of the evil one which include attacks from atheist, the best way to convert them is just to love them like christ loved us, our words on a message board will never convert an atheist it will be our actions if we ever meet these people

praying for them doesn’t hurt either

 

[MindOverMatter2]

Now I want to approach the question a little differently. Here’s my simple question-Why do you believe in God?

Well I could give you an irrefutable proof of Gods existence. However, that is not the reason I became Catholic.

I see no rational reason to put off the inevitability of death if existence is meaningless and without purpose. To live as a person is to seek absolute fulfilment of ones nature as a person. I am rational enough to realise that a nihilistic view of reality does not permit my continuing existence as it does not provide me with absolute fulfilment of my nature. The only reason I would put up with suffering in this case is simply the fear of death, which amounts to a pathetic cowardly existence. But wait a minute… If my hiding from death is truly pathetic and cowardly, then value judgements really do apply to objective reality. Thus, so do moral judgements. And if so, then there must be an objective standard of life in we ought to participate. I ought to be confident, I ought to better my existence, both morally and existentially. The mere fact that my experience of life compels me to avoid death, is strongly suggestive of, if not proof of the fact, that life is truly and objectively greater than death, and is a truly good thing; while ceasing to exist is something we ought to avoid. Otherwise why is there such a thing as the fear of death if there is no objective meaning to life? Confidence is truly greater than cowardice. Love is better than evil. The concept of glory truly exists when one triumphs over some kind of oppression. There really are good objective reasons to feel guilty about particular human actions. Life, as a person appears fundamentally meaningful in a manner that is suggestive of something powerful and transcendent of mere physical cause and effect. It is not something can can be intelligibly explained by physics alone. What rational sense can be made of the idea that a meaningless bag of chemicals is feeling guilty about hurting another meaningless bag chemicals? Yet this is what we are if atheists are correct. I put up with the existence of other human beings and existence in general, because the world looks strange enough and meaningful enough that the concept of God inspires me enough to stick around and see what happens.

In short God and my experience of existence as a person, inspires me to live. That’s why I believe in God. Life, for me, is not worth living without God.

 

[colmcille1]

i deal with atheist alot on the other message board im on and i see what your getting at, I really do think atheist are so determined to find evidence in god that they don’t care about faith. This is why i think its can be hard to convert them with just philosophy arguments or just common since arguments becuase, many arguments for god, have god in the equation and if you can’t get the atheist to put god in that equation then you will have no hope of winning that argument cause much of the evidence for god seems stupid if you don’t put god in that evidence.

while i think its important to defend our church from attacks of the evil one which include attacks from atheist, the best way to convert them is just to love them like christ loved us, our words on a message board will never convert an atheist it will be our actions if we ever meet these people

praying for them doesn’t hurt either

It’s true what you say. I try to employ humour sometimes with atheists on these threads but as humour is such a subjective term its a hit and miss affair. (Or maybe my sense of humour is pretty sad!) It’s better at least than losing my temper.
I do pray for all in the world.
God Bless,
Colmcille1.

 

[traillius]

1. Occam’s Razor
2. Pascal’s Wager
3. The Uncaused Cause
4. Life Experience
5. The Singularity of Jesus Christ
6. The order of the Universe
7. The gift of faith and grace
8. The lack of a reasonable alternative
9. The consequences of not believing in God
10. Love
    etc…

 

[colmcille1]

Hi mindovermatter,
A very good post and plenty of food for thought!
(I hope you don’t think I’m being pedantic but shouldn’t part of your byline read:
‘…Accept it and it…’
God Bless,
Colmcille1.

 

[MindOverMatter2]

Hi mindovermatter,
A very good post and plenty of food for thought!
(I hope you don’t think I’m being pedantic but shouldn’t part of your byline read:
‘…Accept it and it…’
God Bless,
Colmcille1.

Thanks

 

[NaturalEnquirer]

1. Occam’s Razor
2. Pascal’s Wager
3. The Uncaused Cause
4. Life Experience
5. The Singularity of Jesus Christ
6. The order of the Universe
7. The gift of faith and grace
8. The lack of a reasonable alternative
9. The consequences of not believing in God
10. Love
    etc…

Nice!

 

[traillius]

thanks

 

[dostoyevskyfan]

1. Occam’s Razor

Can you explain this please? Although I tend to agree with you, many would contend that the above principle cannot apply matters of “supernatural” or “faith” …it is also frequently used to refute “miracles” by empiricists.

 

[traillius]

Occam’s razor says that the simplest explanation is most often the correct one.
Any explanation adding more elements than is necessary to explain a phenomenon is flawed.Since God is complete, whole, and unified, in and of himself, nothing else is required, thus adding more elements would be unnecessary. So by Occam, God is the level of least necessary elements, therefore the most likely explanation.

 

[scottm]

Unfortunately Occam’s Razor presupposes God’s existence.
Pascal’s Wager assumes that God can be tricked, and for that reason it too fails.

Numbers 4, 5, and 10 are fine evidences of God, however.

 

[Marc_Anthony]

1. Occam’s Razor
2. Pascal’s Wager
3. The Uncaused Cause
4. Life Experience
5. The Singularity of Jesus Christ
6. The order of the Universe
7. The gift of faith and grace
8. The lack of a reasonable alternative
9. The consequences of not believing in God
10. Love
    etc…

If you don’t mind, I have a couple questions for you.

1. Occam’s Razor has already been picked at, so I won’t go there.
2. Pascal’s Wager…well, I suppose there’s something there. I tend to agree with those who like the wager (it’s a debateable point). But on the other hand, this argument can be used for leprechauns. I claim that if I believe in leprechauns, then they’ll give me ternal life. Of course, there’s no evidence they exist, but on the other hand, wouldn’t I want to wager my life on their existence?
3. The uncaused cause…persoanlly, I think this is the best argument. Little to add here.
4. I’ve met atheists who are very happy, so I’m not sure about this one.
5. What does this mean? What does this have to do, exactly, with belief in God?
6. Order of the universe…if you mean the anthropic principle, I agree.
7. Gift of faith and grace…what does this mean? What about people (and I’ve met them) who claim that they’ve prayed for years and years and gotten absolutely nothing that would lead them to believe in God?
8. What do you mean by lack of a reasonable alternative, exactly?
9. This one is the same as Pascal’s Wager.
10. This one I will flat out disagree with. Obviously as a Catholic I believe love is a supernatural gift of God and the most enduring force in the universe. But I don’t see how it can be used as evidence for believing in God at all, sorry.

 

[Marc_Anthony]

Well I could give you an irrefutable proof of Gods existence. However, that is not the reason I became Catholic.

I see no rational reason to put off the inevitability of death if existence is meaningless and without purpose. To live as a person is to seek absolute fulfilment of ones nature as a person. I am rational enough to realise that a nihilistic view of reality does not permit my continuing existence as it does not provide me with absolute fulfilment of my nature. The only reason I would put up with suffering in this case is simply the fear of death, which amounts to a pathetic cowardly existence. But wait a minute… If my hiding from death is truly pathetic and cowardly, then value judgements really do apply to objective reality. Thus, so do moral judgements. And if so, then there must be an objective standard of life in we ought to participate. I ought to be confident, I ought to better my existence, both morally and existentially. The mere fact that my experience of life compels me to avoid death, is strongly suggestive of, if not proof of the fact, that life is truly and objectively greater than death, and is a truly good thing; while ceasing to exist is something we ought to avoid. Otherwise why is there such a thing as the fear of death if there is no objective meaning to life? Confidence is truly greater than cowardice. Love is better than evil. The concept of glory truly exists when one triumphs over some kind of oppression. There really are good objective reasons to feel guilty about particular human actions. Life, as a person appears fundamentally meaningful in a manner that is suggestive of something powerful and transcendent of mere physical cause and effect. It is not something can can be intelligibly explained by physics alone. What rational sense can be made of the idea that a meaningless bag of chemicals is feeling guilty about hurting another meaningless bag chemicals? Yet this is what we are if atheists are correct. I put up with the existence of other human beings and existence in general, because the world looks strange enough and meaningful enough that the concept of God inspires me enough to stick around and see what happens.

In short God and my experience of existence as a person, inspires me to live. That’s why I believe in God. Life, for me, is not worth living without God.

This is a good post.

Out of curiosity, what is your irrefutable proof?

 

[scottm]

1. I’ve met atheists who are very happy, so I’m not sure about this one.

They haven’t met God. I’ve met people who have met God.
Life experience is actually the sole basis for our belief in Christianity. Scan the NT books again. It’s all about experience: “I saw this” and “I heard this” and “we saw it” and “you saw it” and “I speak of what I have seen and heard” stuff is everywhere. Later in time we get to the Desert Fathers, who write all about their personal experiences.

That’s the one, man.

1. What does this mean? What does this have to do, exactly, with belief in God?

How many other people do you know who rose from the dead, and in doing so started a world religion? How many other people do you know who claimed to actually be God, and in doing so started a world religion?

I don’t know any.

1. This one I will flat out disagree with. Obviously as a Catholic I believe love is a supernatural gift of God and the most enduring force in the universe. But I don’t see how it can be used as evidence for believing in God at all, sorry.

It’s John’s first epistle. He explains that the rules of the world are the way they are because God is love. “Love your neighbor” and “don’t steal” and all the rest of the rules work, they work, because God is love. And God made the world. The rules of ethics are the way they are because God is love. That’s what John argues. And he argues that from the position of having dined with God, and roomed with God, 24/7 for three years.

 

[AntiTheist]

I see no rational reason to put off the inevitability of death if existence is meaningless and without purpose “meaning” and “purpose”, of course, as you define the terms]

…]

a nihilistic view of reality …] does not provide me with absolute fulfilment of my nature.

…]

Life, for me, is not worth living without God

I cannot help but feel sad when someone says that he sees no reason to live unless a particular supernatural claim is true.

What rational sense can be made of the idea that a meaningless bag of chemicals is feeling guilty about hurting another meaningless bag chemicals?

Guilt is something we evolved as part of our development of cooperative behaviors that aid survival.

 

[MindOverMatter2]

Guilt is something we evolved as part of our development of cooperative behaviors that aid survival.

A thing doesn’t simply pop into existence on the mere basis that it aids survival (if only you knew how teleological that sounds).You cannot experience guilt unless it’s already apart of who you are, your nature, to experience guilt in regards to personal choices. It is not simply a social phenomenon. Evolution merely states that existing things evolve. It doesn’t tell us, or give us any ultimate explanation, as to why things, particular qualities, exist. “Evolution” is not equal to an “Existential Cause”.

 

[NaturalEnquirer]

I cannot help but feel sad when someone says that he sees no reason to live unless a particular supernatural claim is true.

Guilt is something we evolved as part of our development of cooperative behaviors that aid survival.

From an individual survival perspective, guilt seems like a very serious mis-step. Our consciences frequently urge us to take actions that hurt our reproductive prospects. Jumping into a pond to save a drowning stranger, for instance.

But if you’re absolutely right about guilt, that makes it just one more pesky part of our nature that we should try to transcend, right? There’s certainly no reason to give any moral credence to the collection of “shoulds” that happened to get encoded into our brains, is there?