Why do you believe in Sola Scriptura?

[marywarfield]

What do I need, outside of Scripture, that will teach me to be a better Christian?

Good will, open heart, curiosity, the concept that
the Holy Spirit gives wisdom to others that might
be useful to read or emulate.

For instance- why does a Sola Scripturist read
anything written by his pastor? Martin Luther?
John Calvin?
Is it necessary to read Luther for your salvation?

 

[eddie_too]

to learn to become a better christian, besides knowing sacred scripture it is necessary to have an active prayer life, to participate in the seven sacraments, to learn and follow the teachings of the RCC, to practice the physical and spiritual works of mercy.

it helps many people be better christians by selecting a willing spiritual director.

i am sure there are other things that, in addition to sacred scripture, will help a person become a better christian.

 

[Per_Crucem]

to learn to become a better christian, besides knowing sacred scripture it is necessary to have an active prayer life, to participate in the seven sacraments, to learn and follow the teachings of the RCC, to practice the physical and spiritual works of mercy.

it helps many people be better christians by selecting a willing spiritual director.

i am sure there are other things that, in addition to sacred scripture, will help a person become a better christian.

I don’t see anything in the list above, outside of “following the teachings of the RCC,” which is an entirely arbitrary claim, that exists outside of Scripture. Prayer life, the sacraments, physical and spiritual works of mercy are all taught in Scripture.

 

[Per_Crucem]

Good will, open heart, curiosity, the concept that
the Holy Spirit gives wisdom to others that might
be useful to read or emulate.

All in Scripture.

For instance- why does a Sola Scripturist read
anything written by his pastor? Martin Luther?
John Calvin?
Is it necessary to read Luther for your salvation?

No. But the concept of emulating or following other holy people in order to follow Christ more faithfully is something taught in Scripture, as well.

 

[eddie_too]

it is good to know that some lutherans accept that all seven sacraments have scriptural support.

i do not think that can be said of all non-catholic christians.

 

[GraceofGod31]

if you define what is essential for salvation as being only what is fully defined in sacred scripture or even as having support in sacred scripture, you are using circular logic.

you start with the idea that only what is found in sacred scripture is essential for salvation and then you ask for something not found in sacred scripture that is essential for salvation.

you set up a no-win question.

if a person comes up with something, you simply deny that it is essential for salvation. argument over disagreement resolved. see how easy it is?

OK then you define for me what is required for Salvation?

So one can only know one is saved by hidden gnosis, or gnosis that is important enough to my salvation but not important enough that Peter, Paul, Mark, Luke, James, John, etc. left it out of their writings.

 

[GraceofGod31]

it is good to know that some lutherans accept that all seven sacraments have scriptural support.

i do not think that can be said of all non-catholic christians.

All confessional Lutherans view what the RCC calls the 7 as supported by scripture. The distinction we make is three of them God directly imparts Grace. The other 4 (marriage and confirmation for example) grace comes through use of the word in connection with baptism, holy communion, and absolution. Marriage is a rite that my wife and I before God and witnesses made a commitment to each other. We receive Grace through our marriage only when it is connected to Word and Sacraments. I could give the example of our distinction for the other 3 but I feel the marriage example gives a clear picture as to why we view 4 as rites supported by scripture and 3 as sacraments supported by scripture.

 

[GraceofGod31]

apostolic succession, the primacy of peter, the seven sacraments, the Trinity, among many.Scripture

The Trinity and the sacraments are taught in Scripture. How does believing in the Primacy of Peter and Apostolic Succession save you?

 

[GraceofGod31]

Nothing. But is there any reason not to read or
follow that which makes you go beyond merely
your own salvation? Like being the best Christian
you can be?
If all I was worried about was myself… Then the
answer to your question is no.

What Jesus taught in sacred scripture does not only apply to me and you it applies to the world. He would not have said “go and make disciples of all nations” if what I read in Scripture is only for me to know. So by sharing the Bible specifically I am going beyond my own salvation and looking to the salvation of others.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

I don’t see anything in the list above, outside of “following the teachings of the RCC,” which is an entirely arbitrary claim, that exists outside of Scripture. Prayer life, the sacraments, physical and spiritual works of mercy are all taught in Scripture.

Just like Scriptures exist outside Scriptures. Scriptures do not include a list of what is to be considered the New Testament - Old Testament. As such, Scriptures themselves are outside Scriptures, and you agree with what the Church has established. There is no way around it.

 

[steido01]

All confessional Lutherans view what the RCC calls the 7 as supported by scripture. The distinction we make is three of them God directly imparts Grace. The other 4 (marriage and confirmation for example) grace comes through use of the word in connection with baptism, holy communion, and absolution. Marriage is a rite that my wife and I before God and witnesses made a commitment to each other. We receive Grace through our marriage only when it is connected to Word and Sacraments. I could give the example of our distinction for the other 3 but I feel the marriage example gives a clear picture as to why we view 4 as rites supported by scripture and 3 as sacraments supported by scripture.

When we consider the differences between Rome’s and Wittenberg’s definitions here, I wonder if this doesn’t leave room for a convergence of sorts? Maybe that deserves its own thread…

 

[GraceofGod31]

After all the bashing on sola scriptura as a position we come to a point where no one can share anything that by not being roman catholic keeps me from salvation and helps me to be a better christian that I don’t already receive from God’s Word alone. Interesting, is it possible the rest is window dressing that does not matter (unless of course any of it obscures what does save and make me a better christian)? Food for thought.

 

[FathersKnowBest]

I certainly understand the Catholic viewpoint - the Lutheran viewpoint is that no transfer of authority took place - only that there was a lamentable split in who was in communion with whom.

But that position would be illogical, unless you claim that the Authority that Christ gave is now lost, even though it was clearly intended to be passed down to “all generations,” and understood that way by the Early Church.

It can’t be that the authority is somehow dispersed or shared. Like I said elsewhere, more than one authority = zero authority.

Those of us who don’t hold to the denominalationsit viewpoint are rather immune to this line of reasoning - and in fact view it as a heresy.

Like someone here on CAF said recently, the Catholic Church is not a denomination, it is pre-denominational.

 

[marywarfield]

What Jesus taught in sacred scripture does not only apply to me and you it applies to the world. He would not have said “go and make disciples of all nations” if what I read in Scripture is only for me to know. So by sharing the Bible specifically I am going beyond my own salvation and looking to the salvation of others.

But then-

I’m having a real problem understanding HOW
saying everything necessary for salvation is
in Scripture supports Sola Scriptura?

Yes everything necessary is in Scripture. And so
please explain how that relates, supports, pertains,
or proves Scripture as Sola?

 

[Per_Crucem]

Just like Scriptures exist outside Scriptures. Scriptures do not include a list of what is to be considered the New Testament - Old Testament. As such, Scriptures themselves are outside Scriptures, and you agree with what the Church has established. There is no way around it.

I am not sure how that is relevant to the question, though. At least, not as regards the subject at hand of a Christian life.

Nor has anyone disputed that the canon was received by the church. At least, no one has argued that it was received by the Roman empire.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

After all the bashing on sola scriptura as a position we come to a point where no one can share anything that by not being roman catholic keeps me from salvation and helps me to be a better christian that I don’t already receive from God’s Word alone. Interesting, is it possible the rest is window dressing that does not matter (unless of course any of it obscures what does save and make me a better christian)? Food for thought.

You do realize that you receive the Scriptures through the Church?

Christ is merciful, and still you can keep yourself from salvation… as can I.

Let’s pray we don’t succeed ah?

 

[eddie_too]

i thnk whoever introduced the phrase "essential for salvation’ should define what they meant when they used it.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

I am not sure how that is relevant to the question, though. At least, not as regards the subject at hand of a Christian life.

Nor has anyone disputed that the canon was received by the church. At least, no one has argued that it was received by the Roman empire.

Stay on subject.

You receive the Scriptures outside of Scriptures and through the Church. You just made a personal choice to not receive anything else from the Catholic Church (And I am willfully ignoring Baptism, which you also receive through the Church).

 

[FathersKnowBest]

Luther, in the prefaces to the DC books, references the ancients often, the Fathers often, Jerome in particular often. Now, unless they lived in the last 500 years, you seem to have missed the point. Luther didn’t create the disputes about books out of whole cloth. These were disputes going back to the early Church and the Fathers.

Yes, disputes that have been decided by the Church long ago.
To bring up such disputes anew is like cutting open a scar, and saying that you didn’t wound someone since they had the wound previously. Kind of disingenuous, even if not intended as such.

Should we re-open, say, the Judaiser controversy? Some (as a part of the fruit of protestantism, BTW) have done just that. Same goes for many other things decided by the early Church: the Trinity, Arianism, etc. etc.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

i thnk whoever introduced the phrase "essential for salvation’ should define what they meant when they used it.

It’s just a play on words to do as little as possible… You know the whole rebellion and no one tells me what I have or not have to do or believe…