Why do you believe in Sola Scriptura?

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dronald said:
I’m sorry, but you’ve confused me here a bit. Did the Church go outside Scripture in order to help define the Trinity? When the Church gave it’s definition of the Trinity, did they look for sources outside of Scripture?
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You see…here is the issue with many Protestants: Anything outside the Bible is questionable.

How did anything written about Christ,doctrines,etc come into existence? Jesus via oral communication then to writing. It is called Apostolic Traditions. Why the mystery or confusion is beyond me.

Case in point, when the church argued against Arius,did it stick solely to the Bible and nothing else? No. The church also looked to Apostolic Tradition insisting Christ divinity was always believed and taught long before anything was penned.

Make sense?
 
benjohnson said:
I was getting grumpy at your comments like this “ONLY Scripture is the authority or only authority or scripture alone”

When that isn’t what we are saying - we certainly acknowledge other authorities.
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Sorry,but that is not the message which is being conveyed. House made it clear:

Scripture is the highest authority.

That makes the church appear it is below written scripture or less of an authority.
 
FathersKnowBest said:
Let me get this straight:
  1. St. Peter is the acknowledged “Prime Minister” to whom Christ passed on the title of Shepherd of all the Church
  2. His office is guaranteed by Christ to continue in perpetuity
  3. You claim that, even though you disengage from that Christ-given and guaranteed authority, you are still part of the OHCAC
Do I have that right? 🤷
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When did I say that I’ve disengaged from His Church? I am of His Church, through Baptism, through word and sacrament.

Jon
 
JonNC said:
Lutherans don’t say this either. In fact, we say quite the opposite. House mentioned that it is the Church that determines the canon of scripture, and it is the Church that uses scripture to hold teaching and doctrines accountable.

Jon
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Understood,but House did say: Scripture is the highest authority.

Blessings Jon. Precisely why I asked House to clearly show us where Scripture remotely even states such a position? Does the church even teach it? Did it ever?
 
eddie_too said:
it is a nonsensical tautology to ask this question: show something in first century christian teaching that is infallible and also not contained in scripture?, when the person asking the question defines as infallible only that which is found in scripture.

it is also a little disingenuous to say that all infallible teachings are found in sacred scripture when the person really means that all infallible teachings can be supported by sacred scripture. these are two different concepts.

the trinity is an infallible teaching, but there is no explicit mention of it in sacred scripture. most certainly all Three Persons are mentioned. but nowhere is it said that the Three are One in Nature but totally distinct Persons.
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Exactly! The doctrine of the Trinity is implicit in scripture,not explicit.
 
Nicea325 said:
Sorry,but that is not the message which is being conveyed. House made it clear:

Scripture is the highest authority.
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From a Lutheran’s standpoint, what he said was fine - he didn’t say Scripture is the only authority.

Believe me, we Lutherans are almost as shocked as your Catholics with the recent “me and my bible” idea in western Christianity.
 
JonNC said:
When did I say that I’ve disengaged from His Church? I am of His Church, through Baptism, through word and sacrament.

Jon
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That’s not what I said. I said, in relation to the office of St. Peter:
“You claim that, even though you disengage from that Christ-given and guaranteed authority, you are still part of the OHCAC”

By “that Christ-given and guaranteed authority” I was referring to “the office of St. Peter.”
 
benjohnson said:
From a Lutheran’s standpoint, what he said was fine - he didn’t say Scripture is the only authority.
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Here’s the problem that this Catholic has with such a statement:
The Church has Authority for one and only one reason: Christ gave it to her.
Thus, the Church’s Authority is of Divine origin.

Pitting one divinely-instituted authority (the Church) against another divinely-instituted authority, as if they could conflict, is illogical. It would be much like arguing that two books of scripture conflict.
 
=Nicea325;11768375]Understood,but House did say: Scripture is the highest authority.
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I do not speak for House, but we do view scripture the highest authority for holding doctrine accountable. This never is meant to diminish what we believe the legitimate role of the Church to be. The Church has the role of teaching, to prach and administer the sacraments.
Blessings Jon.
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And also with you, my friend.
Precisely why I asked House to clearly show us where Scripture remotely even states such a position? Does the church even teach it? Did it ever?
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Again, not speaking for House, my own thought on the matter revolves around the fracturing of Tradition and the Church in Schism. The need for an authority not broken by schism.

Jon
 
JonNC said:
I do not speak for House, but we do view scripture the highest authority for holding doctrine accountable. This never is meant to diminish what we believe the legitimate role of the Church to be. The Church has the role of teaching, to prach and administer the sacraments.

And also with you, my friend.

Again, not speaking for House, my own thought on the matter revolves around the fracturing of Tradition and the Church in Schism. The need for an authority not broken by schism.

Jon
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Thanks Jon…now I understand where House is coming from. Not trying to insult his faith or his community of faith,trying to figure out his position.
 
benjohnson said:
From a Lutheran’s standpoint, what he said was fine - he didn’t say Scripture is the only authority.

Believe me, we Lutherans are almost as shocked as your Catholics with the recent “me and my bible” idea in western Christianity.
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I understand. Not trying to bash his faith or the Lutheran church. Now it is clear.
 
FathersKnowBest said:
Pitting one divinely-instituted authority (the Church) against another divinely-instituted authority, as if they could conflict, is illogical. It would be much like arguing that two books of scripture conflict.
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The trouble for us Lutherans is that the authorities in question did appear (from our standpoint) to conflict, so we were forced to chose. Thankfully those days are long past and at some-point, with God’s grace, we could perhaps drop our defenses.
 
FathersKnowBest said:
Here’s the problem that this Catholic has with such a statement:
The Church has Authority for one and only one reason: Christ gave it to her.
Thus, the Church’s Authority is of Divine origin.

Pitting one divinely-instituted authority (the Church) against another divinely-instituted authority, as if they could conflict, is illogical. It would be much like arguing that two books of scripture conflict.
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👍
 
benjohnson said:
The trouble for us Lutherans is that the authorities in question did appear (from our standpoint) to conflict, so we were forced to chose.
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There’s the rub.
A personal interpretation was held to be above the interpretation given by an Authority with divine origin.
Thankfully those days are long past and at some-point, with God’s grace, we could perhaps drop our defenses.
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I would celebrate like crazy if you were to join us.
👍
 
FathersKnowBest said:
Here’s the problem that this Catholic has with such a statement:
The Church has Authority for one and only one reason: Christ gave it to her.
Thus, the Church’s Authority is of Divine origin.

Pitting one divinely-instituted authority (the Church) against another divinely-instituted authority, as if they could conflict, is illogical. It would be much like arguing that two books of scripture conflict.
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I don’t think we look at it as pitting one against the other. We look at it as one responding to another. The Church responds to its role of teaching, granted by Christ Himself and by scripture.
We do, however, recognize that there is conflict, but it is within the Church, which has led to disagreements about what scripture and Tradition teach.

Jon
 
Nicea325 said:
Nope! You are the one insisting written Scripture is the higest authority and believe Scripture alone is the only source giving us the deep explanation of the Trinity. Read history and you will be shocked it was the Church Christ founded which has given us the deep theological explanation of all doctrines,not ONLY the Bible. Did the Bible also ratify all core doctrines? Did the Bible alone already provide us the official canonization process for the NT?

No offense,but you have bought into a novel belief that the Bible is the only source of Truth and it basically defined in-depth and shaped all of our doctrines,without any external entity.
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I don’t believe that the scriptures alone is the only source giving us the deep explanation of the Trinity. That’s silly.

What I do believe is that any explanation of the Trinity has to be normed by scripture, it being the highest authority.
 
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