M
marywarfield
Guest
Actually I hang out with primarily non Catholic Christians and they
answer questions as badly as you. Lol
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answer questions as badly as you. Lol
D
dronald
Guest
Interesting.
I’ll add the “Bible shredding Protestants” to my list of CAF Protestant groups Catholics come across. Right below the “Bible fell from the sky” group I hear so much about.
I always have such trouble finding their websites.
G
gravity
Guest
I’m going to go back to the original question.
Why do you believe in Sola Sqriptura?
In my case it was what I was taught for 30 years as a Baptist. It is a belief I have left behind with some difficulty. I still want to see something in the Scriptures, but I now know that God intended for us to have more than the Scriptures.
I will confess I did not read all the posts on this subject, so if anything I said has already been stated you have my apologies.
M
Why do you believe in Sola Sqriptura?
In my case it was what I was taught for 30 years as a Baptist. It is a belief I have left behind with some difficulty. I still want to see something in the Scriptures, but I now know that God intended for us to have more than the Scriptures.
I will confess I did not read all the posts on this subject, so if anything I said has already been stated you have my apologies.
M
I
Izdaari
Guest
I can’t really say that I do. Prima Scriptura, sure. I put it first, but not all alone. I also apply tradition, reason and experience.
But then I’m not a “normal” Protestant, but an Anglican.
But then I’m not a “normal” Protestant, but an Anglican.
N
Nicea325
Guest
Ever try a Baptist or fundamentalist website? See what they consider the only authority?
M
Mike_SoCal
Guest
The Bible Clearly state that Scripture is good for correction.
It corrects the mistakes people inevitable make when trying to interpret the Bible rather than simply follow it.
2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
The New Testament is Christian Orthodoxy!
We might develop other traditions and practices which is fine as long as it doesn’t violate the doctrines of the New Testament.
It corrects the mistakes people inevitable make when trying to interpret the Bible rather than simply follow it.
2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
The New Testament is Christian Orthodoxy!
We might develop other traditions and practices which is fine as long as it doesn’t violate the doctrines of the New Testament.
M
marywarfield
Guest
Again though- which New Testament are you depending
on? The original or the one in which seven books
have been removed?
That is my chief issue with Sola Scriptura. What it
teaches as correction, reproof as you say, is fundamentally
Vulnerable to the biases, preferences, interpretations
of every passing stranger- not all as stated by Christ in said
New Testament are created equal in good will.
M
marywarfield
Guest
Here is a link to a rather well written history of Baptists
written by Baptists. And what comes immediately
apparent to a non Sola Scripturist is the sole authority
is basically YOU.
For what I’m reading here is the Baptist’s dependence
on Sola Scriptura caused the first to break away from
Anglican and other Protestant denominations, then
to break themselves into three different main groups
which then fractured even further. Why? Over differences
in opinion over Scripture interpretation and implementation.
Which tells me one man A is arguing another man B and stomping
off to form the Church According to A.
Which to my way of thinking is totally counter productive
to Christ’s desire that we be ONE and therefore that
seperation is not entirely divine in origin therefore
dangerous.
baptisthistory.org/pamphlets/bible.htm
H
House_Harkonnen
Guest
The article is also false.
It states that Luther put James, Hebrews and Revelation in an appendix. That’s not true, he included them in the New Testament of his translation. They weren’t relegated at all to an appendix.
It also states he disagreed with them regarding the doctrine of purgatory. Thats also false. Luther mentions why he had a lesser view of James and the other books, and it has nothing to do with purgatory.
EWTN can do better.
H
House_Harkonnen
Guest
Which seven books of the New Testament have been removed? I have never heard of this.
M
marywarfield
Guest
It’s best I guess not to cite Catholic sources as people
will dispute any Catholic statement on issues.
Therefore let’s view actually Lutheran sources okay?
This one begins almost immediately in the wrong
when it states Catholic teaching on purgatory comes
only from Corinthians. No, it doesn’t.
clclutheran.org/atlanta/bibleclass/bookofconcord/purgatory.html
Actually the Church almost always cites 1 Maccabees
in defense of purgatory- one of the seven books
Luther deemed uninspired, but useful, but not equal
to Sacred Scripture. Therefore in many English bibles
and some used by Lutherans all 7 books are either
removed and missing altogether or are grouped together
and placed elsewhere in the Bible.
cyclopedia.lcms.org/display.asp?t1=c&word=CANON.BIBLE
Now I don’t know why so many people on this
thread are arguing the point. It is an historical fact and
I have now given y’all BOTH Catholic AND Lutheran
scholars and references to the issue.
If you can’t trust the Catholic statement, perhaps
you will be more comfortable with the Lutherans stating
the same thing or do you believe they also could
do a better job?
B
benjohnson
Guest
News to me too.
B
benjohnson
Guest
Lutheran Sola Scriptura is a practice of the church, not of individuals.
M
marywarfield
Guest
Well if you consider the first man Martin Luther to be
a church rather than an individual. His own interpretation
caused him to create his own religion based on his
own view of Scripture. Then others followed suit in
agreement until the next guy took exception and found
a new meaning and the Lutherans began to fracture into
parts depending on how each man viewed the scripture.
Until when all is said and done there are literally
thousands of little and big sects all claiming very
different views and all claiming their authority is
the prima because it is Sola.
In other words there is NO authority and anything
goes really.
B
benjohnson
Guest
It’s a good thing then that Lutherans don’t consider that - it would be especially silly to setup Martin Luther as an even more-powerful papal-like figure than the Pope.
T
Towards_God
Guest
Hi all,
I will add my 2 cents worth
The question seems to be one of Authority.
If we start with Matthew 16:18 where Jesus says “You are Cephas (Aramaic for rock) and upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it .” So Jesus calls Peter a rock and says he will build his church on Peter and that Hell will not overcome it (Only one church around then All others broke away from the Catholic Church ( The location of where Jesus made this pronouncement is significant but can wait for another time)
In Matthew 16:19 Jesus says he will give Peter the keys to the kingdom of Heaven (Only Apostle he gave the keys to) In those days the keys to the kingdom (The treasury esp) were given by the King to his most trusted aide. His steward was in charge while the king was away. Peter is the Steward of Jesus’ Church.
In Luke 22:32 Jesus says he will pray for Peters faith to remain strong so Peter can strengthen his brothers. Peter first again.
In John 21:15-17 We have Jesus asking Peter 3 times if he loves him to counter Peters 3 denials. Each time Peter says yes he does, Jesus tells Peter (No one else) to look after/tend/feed his flock.
To further emphasis Peter being first among the Apostles, Peter/Simon/Cephas appears in the New Testament 195 times (The 4 Gospels, Acts Galatians and 1 Peter, 2 Peter). Next is John on 48 and all the other Apostles 130 combined in the New Testament.
In Acts 15:7 you have Peter taking control of the first meeting in Jerusalem and all listened to him.
In Acts 2:14-36 Peter is the first to preach the Good News after Pentacost.
Tertullian in his book Manogomy , 8.4 describes the Church as “Built upon the back of Peter”
So in summary we can see that Peter is first among the Apostles and was given the role of Steward/Shepard of the Church.
The next point would be to examine that the Catholic Church has Apostolic Authority and if proven refute Sola Scriptura and thereby proving that the Catholic Church is the one true church, depository and teacher of Faith.
I will add my 2 cents worth
The question seems to be one of Authority.
If we start with Matthew 16:18 where Jesus says “You are Cephas (Aramaic for rock) and upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it .” So Jesus calls Peter a rock and says he will build his church on Peter and that Hell will not overcome it (Only one church around then
All others broke away from the Catholic Church ( The location of where Jesus made this pronouncement is significant but can wait for another time)In Matthew 16:19 Jesus says he will give Peter the keys to the kingdom of Heaven (Only Apostle he gave the keys to) In those days the keys to the kingdom (The treasury esp) were given by the King to his most trusted aide. His steward was in charge while the king was away. Peter is the Steward of Jesus’ Church.
In Luke 22:32 Jesus says he will pray for Peters faith to remain strong so Peter can strengthen his brothers. Peter first again.
In John 21:15-17 We have Jesus asking Peter 3 times if he loves him to counter Peters 3 denials. Each time Peter says yes he does, Jesus tells Peter (No one else) to look after/tend/feed his flock.
To further emphasis Peter being first among the Apostles, Peter/Simon/Cephas appears in the New Testament 195 times (The 4 Gospels, Acts Galatians and 1 Peter, 2 Peter). Next is John on 48 and all the other Apostles 130 combined in the New Testament.
In Acts 15:7 you have Peter taking control of the first meeting in Jerusalem and all listened to him.
In Acts 2:14-36 Peter is the first to preach the Good News after Pentacost.
Tertullian in his book Manogomy , 8.4 describes the Church as “Built upon the back of Peter”
So in summary we can see that Peter is first among the Apostles and was given the role of Steward/Shepard of the Church.
The next point would be to examine that the Catholic Church has Apostolic Authority and if proven refute Sola Scriptura and thereby proving that the Catholic Church is the one true church, depository and teacher of Faith.
G
GraceofGod31
Guest
I have a copy of Luther’s translation which in includes the deuterocannonical books so whatever the post from EWTN is would appear to be an attempt to dilute what actually occurred.
The fact that the RCC has always questioned the inspiration of the books in question is evident in the title that described them. Not a single creed mentions purgation, and Christ descended into hell to declare victory over the very things he laid his life down for.
Even a cursory examination of 2nd century history from the early church fathers will show you these books were not first viewed as secondary by Luther.
F
FathersKnowBest
Guest
This is a very basic error.
Jesus decended into the abode of the dead: Hades in Greek, or Sheol in Hebrew.
This is NOT the “hell of the damned.”
It is indeed a “third place.” Perhaps akin to purgatory, perhaps yet another temporary holding place.
H
House_Harkonnen
Guest
Sure. But I am not being a contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian. Those statements were definitely wrong.
No, the source gives a bunch of verses where Catholics get their support of Purgatory. It never states “only from Corinthians”.
The Lutheran sources you cited don’t say the same thing as EWTN is saying.
M
marywarfield
Guest
You miss the point completely. The primary reason
Sola Scriptura cannot be considered valid by those
who find their own souls valuable is that the interpretation
by each man individually beginning with the one man
Luther and continuing on with thousands more such
as Joseph Smith of the Mormons, Mary Baker Eddy
of Christian Science, Amy Semple MacPherson of
Scientology and Ellen White of the Baptists and John
Knox, the Calvinists, Ron Hubbard, and Jack Chick
PROVES it is exceedingly dangerous and chaotic. More
to the point it is not what Christ ever intended.
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