Why do you believe the Bible is the Word of God?

[dawid]

You sound just like LDS Christians when I’m able to discuss and debate with them too. We can post all kinds of subjective prayers and statements which changes nothing in regards to the truth. Our common source of the truth is the Holy Scriptures. Until you are open to search the Scriptures for yourself, I’m afraid you will find great difficulty to see things with greater clarity.

You are either misled or mistaken by making that statement!

Our common source of the Truth is the Word of Jesus which, captured in sacred Tradition which was preached by word and in letters by His apostles.

The key aspects of Tradition were also placed in the written Scriptures.

The holy Spirit inspired the Church’s process of discernment in establishing the Scripture of the New Testament so that you may now trust them as being so inspired.

 

[ralphinal]

And how will you know that Church? The Creed gives no clues as to who or what that Church is.

What does it mean to be one?

What does it mean to be catholic?

What does it mean to be a Church?

If we use the Nicean Creed, which any non-heretical Christian would accept, we get more questions.

What does it mean to be Apostolic?

What does it mean to be Holy?

I do think that these questions are important to this conversation. I mean other than the fact that I asked them.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I agree, Ralph. I would like to see people answer those questions.

 

[ralphinal]

And how will you know that Church? The Creed gives no clues as to who or what that Church is.

What does it mean to be one?

What does it mean to be catholic?

What does it mean to be a Church?

If we use the Nicean Creed, which any non-heretical Christian would accept, we get more questions.

What does it mean to be Apostolic?

What does it mean to be Holy?

Bump. ONe more time

 

[Mannyfit75]

The Word of God is Jesus Christ not the Bible in the literal sense.

The Bible’s author is God who used men to inspire to write such inspired books. The definition Reform gives here is limited.

I made a thread that kind borden this Bible as more than just a book.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=275737

 

[itsjustdave1988]

That’s an ecumenical answer. So, consider which came first before you cast your vote.

If by Church, you mean the people of God, then the Church came before Scripture. The first books of Scripture were attributed to Moses, afterall, and so received their authority because of the authority Moses had among the people of God (the Church).

The Scripture according to the NT Church was understood to be the Hebrew Scripture, that Scripture which Paul tells us that Timothy knew since he was a child. Consequently, the NT Church also preceded what would later be called the New Testament.

I have to admit, therefore, with St. Augustine of Hippo, that “For my part, I should not believe the gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.” (St. Augustine, Against the Fundamental Epistle of Manichaeus, ch. 5).

 

[lyrikal]

Do you believe that the Bible is the Word of God because

1. God the Holy Spirit revealed this truth to you personally.
2. The Roman Catholic Church taught you that the Bible is the Word of God.

And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers. - 1 Thessalonians 2:13

When will you Protestants stop with this “either/or” stuff?

Bible OR Tradition?
Faith OR Works?
Physical OR Spiritual Church?

For goodness sakes, think both/and on all these things I listed.

 

[Reformed]

When will you Protestants stop with this “either/or” stuff?

Bible OR Tradition?
Faith OR Works?
Physical OR Spiritual Church?

For goodness sakes, think both/and on all these things I listed.

Christendom

Roman Catholic Faith (One True Church)
Holy Scripture (+) Roman Catholic Sacred Tradition

**Orthodox Faith **(One True Church)
Holy Scripture (+) Orthodox Sacred Tradition

Protestantism (visible and invisble church understanding)
Holy Scripture is God’s authorative revelation to mankind. The Scriptures point to the biblical Jesus Christ as central to Christianity.

2 Corinthians 5

Our Heavenly Dwelling
5:1 For we know that if the tent that is our earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this tent we groan, longing to put on our heavenly dwelling, 3 if indeed by putting it on [1] we may not be found naked. 4 For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened—not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5 He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

6 So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, 7 for we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 9 So whether we are at home or away, we make it our aim to please him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.

The Ministry of Reconciliation
11 Therefore, knowing the fear of the Lord, we persuade others. But what we are is known to God, and I hope it is known also to your conscience. 12 We are not commending ourselves to you again but giving you cause to boast about us, so that you may be able to answer those who boast about outward appearance and not about what is in the heart. 13 For if we are beside ourselves, it is for God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you. 14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; 15 and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

16 From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. [2] The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. 18 All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling [3] the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

 

[ralphinal]

And how will you know that Church? The Creed gives no clues as to who or what that Church is.

What does it mean to be one?

What does it mean to be catholic?

What does it mean to be a Church?

If we use the Nicean Creed, which any non-heretical Christian would accept, we get more questions.

What does it mean to be Apostolic?

What does it mean to be Holy?

Ignoring these questions will not make them go away. These are important to this conversation

 

[cfrancis]

Christendom

Roman Catholic Faith (One True Church)
Holy Scripture (+) Roman Catholic Sacred Tradition

**Orthodox Faith **(One True Church)
Holy Scripture (+) Orthodox Sacred Tradition

Protestantism (visible and invisble church understanding)
Holy Scripture is God’s authorative revelation to mankind. The Scriptures point to the biblical Jesus Christ as central to Christianity.

2 Corinthians 5

Our Heavenly Dwelling
5:1 For we know that if the tent that is our earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this tent we groan, longing to put on our heavenly dwelling, 3 if indeed by putting it on [1] we may not be found naked. 4 For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened—not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5 He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

6 So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, 7 for we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 9 So whether we are at home or away, we make it our aim to please him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.

The Ministry of Reconciliation
11 Therefore, knowing the fear of the Lord, we persuade others. But what we are is known to God, and I hope it is known also to your conscience. 12 We are not commending ourselves to you again but giving you cause to boast about us, so that you may be able to answer those who boast about outward appearance and not about what is in the heart. 13 For if we are beside ourselves, it is for God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you. 14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; 15 and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

16 From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. [2] The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. 18 All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling [3] the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Are you under some requirement to post random excerpts from Scripture, whether they apply to the situation or not?

Anyway, your classification needs some work:
Roman Catholic Faith (One True Church + communities in imperfect union)
Holy Scripture (+) Roman Catholic Sacred Tradition; God’s Word - written and spoken - is God’s authoritative revelation to mankind; God’s revelation points to His Son, the Word, as cental to Christianity

**Orthodox Faith **(One True Church + communities in imperfect union)
Holy Scripture (+) Orthodox Sacred Tradition; God’s Word - written and spoken - is God’s authoritative revelation to mankind; God’s revelation points to His Son, the Word, as cental to Christianity

Protestantism (visible and invisble church understanding w/ numerous doctrinal divisions)
Holy Scripture, as interpretted by each denomination, is God’s authorative revelation to mankind. The Scriptures, as interpretted by each denomination, point to what each denomination sees as the biblical Jesus Christ as central to Christianity.

 

[cfrancis]

Ignoring these questions will not make them go away. These are important to this conversation

In Reformed’s world, if you do not face it, it is not an issue.

 

[ralphinal]

In Reformed’s world, if you do not face it, it is not an issue.

I have also noticed that with many non-Catholic/non-Orthodox Christians, if you do not agree with their view of scripture,you are wrong, yet no man has authority over scripture.

They confuse me.

 

[cfrancis]

I have also noticed that with many non-Catholic/non-Orthodox Christians, if you do not agree with their view of scripture,you are wrong, yet no man has authority over scripture.

They confuse me.

So true…note, on each thread in which Reformed is involved, each presentation of Scripture by the Catholic is met with either evasion or, more commonly, the situation you state: the Catholic view of Scripture is wrong, his is correct.

 

[ralphinal]

So true…note, on each thread in which Reformed is involved, each presentation of Scripture by the Catholic is met with either evasion or, more commonly, the situation you state: the Catholic view of Scripture is wrong, his is correct.

So you can be one of a billion Catholics who follow the Church or one of the 500 million non-Catholic, non-Orthodox who, when push comes to shove, can follow themselves?

I am going to start a new thread with my questions. I know that SIA and others will discuss them.

 

[Reformed]

So you can be one of a billion Catholics who follow the Church or one of the 500 million non-Catholic, non-Orthodox who, when push comes to shove, can follow themselves?

I am going to start a new thread with my questions. I know that SIA and others will discuss them.

Jesus said the road is narrow, and I freely choose to take the narrow road (by the grace of God alone). Why take the broad road of the one billion? Even within contemporary Protestantism, the road is much more narrow than that which leads to eternal life. Not all Catholics and Protestants are on the road to life, even though they may profess to know Him. Only a few (the elect) are on it.

“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few. - The Words of Jesus Christ recorded in the Holy Scriptures

For additional revelation from Jesus that is recorded, click below:

gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=john+6&src=esv.org

 

[ralphinal]

Jesus said the road is narrow, and I freely choose to take the narrow road (by the grace of God alone). Why take the broad road of the one billion? Even within contemporary Protestantism, the road is much more narrow than that which leads to eternal life. Not all Catholics and Protestants are on the road to life, even though they may profess to know Him. Only a few (the elect) are on it.

“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few. - The Words of Jesus Christ recorded in the Holy Scriptures

For additional revelation from Jesus that is recorded, click below:

gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=john+6&src=esv.org

And none of that tells me why YOUR interpretation is one iota better than anyone elses. Please explain to me why I should accept what anyone claims scripture says if I disagree with it.

 

[With_Questions]

Ignoring these questions will not make them go away. These are important to this conversation

Ralph:

I have pity on you asking the same dumb questions and getting no answer.

So even though I have no particular interest in debating this thread other than my :twocents: that I already contributed earlier here goes.

What does it mean to be one?

Kind of obvious. Jesus did not found 2 churches. Neither did He found 2,356. He founded one.

What does it mean to be catholic?

I think the meaning of catholic is universal. Therefore the scope of His church is worldwide at least. I can’t speak for Mars or other galaxies.

What does it mean to be a Church?

I think the Scriptures refer to the Church as His Bride in Ephesians 5 that He will present to himself. (Ephesians 5). I think a plain reading of this passage shows that the people of God are His church. We obviously disagree here.

If we use the Nicean Creed, which any non-heretical Christian would accept, we get more questions.

What does it mean to be Apostolic?
Ephesians 2:19-22 contains the phrase (referring to the church) having been built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the cornerstone.

What does it mean to be Holy
Here I am reminded of 1 Peter 2:9. But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession.

So now you can say that you got at least one set of stupid answers for your questions.

 

[ralphinal]

Ralph:

I have pity on you asking the same dumb questions and getting no answer.

So even though I have no particular interest in debating this thread other than my :twocents: that I already contributed earlier here goes.

So now you can say that you got at least one set of stupid answers for your questions.

Thanks. Your answers were not stupid, at least not to me. IN fact, I think that I rather agree with them.

So, we should easily be able to tell which church holds these qualities, right?

 

[With_Questions]

Thanks. Your answers were not stupid, at least not to me. IN fact, I think that I rather agree with them.

So, we should easily be able to tell which church holds these qualities, right?

If you believe that the church of Jesus Christ consists exclusively of one denomination, correct.

I do not believe this is the case.

Answering your objection ahead of time, I have already asked if there is another word I can use instead of denomination that means “branch of Christianity” and as of yet have not been supplied that word.

 

[ralphinal]

If you believe that the church of Jesus Christ consists exclusively of one denomination, correct.

I do not believe this is the case.

Answering your objection ahead of time, I have already asked if there is another word I can use instead of denomination that means “branch of Christianity” and as of yet have not been supplied that word.

For the sake of conversation, I have no issue with its use here. I do not claim that the Catholic Church is a denomination, but it is too cumbersome to use any other word.

So, is it possible that all denominations are able to claim this? How are we one with different doctrine? How are we universal with separation?