Why do you believe?

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ahintofclover

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I have a friend who really likes to discuss morality stuff and we’ve been on this topic of “believing” for a while and I believe I’m stuck. He is saying “there is no reason to believe due to the current lack of evidence.” Essentially, the burden of proof falls upon the person who says it exists. In this case, it would be up to me, the Catholic, to show evidence of God. I have failed to provide empirical evidence (probably due to my own lack of skills) and thus, there is no reason to believe in it.

The question does not fall into the realm of “Does God exist or not” but more of why do you believe in something that you cannot prove?

As said previously, I’m not sure how to answer my friend, so I turn to you, the Catholic community. I don’t want to know what you would say to him, but I’m more curious:

Why do you believe?
 
+JMJ+
ahintofclover said:
The question does not fall into the realm of “Does God exist or not” but more of why do you believe in something that you cannot prove?
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ALL of reasoning and thinking starts ultimately from something that cannot be proven, i.e. axioms.

Can science prove that all of the laws of nature that we have learned is the same throughout the universe, or in the past, or in the future? I doubt it can or it will, but science operates on this principal assumption, and will break down if this assumption is discarded.

Can you prove that you will still be alive even just a few seconds from now? Of course not, but does that stop you from planning? And what will happen to your planning and, indeed, living if you discard that assumption of living still in the future?

Therefore, axioms (like God, like the Catholic Faith) can only be proven by building upon those assumptions and see where they lead you.

And where has this set of axioms called the Catholic Faith led us? Well, let your friend (and you too!) watch this whole series: The Catholic Church: Builder of Civilization.

👍
 
I agree with the above poster: atheism rests on a series of assumptions that also cannot be proven. The best defense they have come up with is that science will eventually find all the answers. Really? That requires some serious faith. So I would turn the tables and ask your friend about justifying his unbelief and the assumptions behind it. Push him a bit, see how he explains his position. I find this to be the best tactic with people who try and put me on the side of defence.
 
@Contra Mundam and nuntym:

I want this to be more of a focus on why you personally believe. 🙂 Care to reply back why?
 
nuntym said:
+JMJ+

ALL of reasoning and thinking starts ultimately from something that cannot be proven, i.e. axioms.

Can science prove that all of the laws of nature that we have learned is the same throughout the universe, or in the past, or in the future? I doubt it can or it will, but science operates on this principal assumption, and will break down if this assumption is discarded.

Can you prove that you will still be alive even just a few seconds from now? Of course not, but does that stop you from planning? And what will happen to your planning and, indeed, living if you discard that assumption of living still in the future?

Therefore, axioms (like God, like the Catholic Faith) can only be proven by building upon those assumptions and see where they lead you.

And where has this set of axioms called the Catholic Faith led us? Well, let your friend (and you too!) watch this whole series: The Catholic Church: Builder of Civilization.

👍
Click to expand...
What can science prove? Not everything but some things it can. This universe in which we live has always had the same values for the constants which enable it to exist. These constants are gravity, electromagnetic force and strong and weak nuclear forces. The values which these constants hold are in very narrow ranges. Values outside the ranges would result in radically different universes. For people like me, this seems to point to a universe created by design, so we have a designer, a creator
 
@Cinette

So why do you believe? Because the universe is created by design?
 
i believe in God because when i look at the universe and when i look at the human body - everything is so perfectly created - how could there not be a God. i don’t feel the world or humans were created by chance or accident.
 
The question is not whether there is evidence or not.

The question is whether your friend is open to the possibility of the existence of God or not.

An agnostic may not believe in the evidence, or not consider the evidence as valid (since there is evidence, and an overwhelming amount of it), yet be open to the possibility of accepting God.

An atheist may simply reject the idea of God. That is, no amount of evidence would ever be sufficient evidence.

I say “may”, because this is by no means a general rule. Just an example.

I believe because I have seen. I cannot explain why, or what. All I know is that I can “see” God through the veil of faith.

I see Him reflected in the world, in all living beings, in the plants, in the stars…I see Him reflected in the love of a mother for her child, in the joy of a father for his son…I see Him reflected in a brother sacrificing himself to save his brother…I see him reflected in words that can take a battered soul and turn it into a seraphim burning of love…I can see Him reflected in those who find peace in tribulation, and despite sorrowful sufferings can always say or do something that can change someone’s life…I see Him when someone who was terminally ill suddenly heals, when someone who had nothing suddenly finds everything…I can see Him in the Holy Eucharist, in the Sacraments, in the Church that changes people’s lives and allows them to become holy, even to the peak of sainthood. I can see him in the depths of the mathematics, in the infinity of astronomy and in the infinitesimal of physics…I can see Him in the mysteries of chemistry and biology…

…and may anyone tell me that the “rational” option for which there is “evidence” is that all of the above is random and coincidental? That all of the above is not the evident and rational fruit of an infinite wisdom? That everything that is and means is just a coincidence? That all of the miracles - countless - must be denied - even if there is undisputable evidence and witnesses - simply because they do not “fit” into this “rational” option? Sorry, I find no reason to believe in this!
 
I am reading a book at the moment called “The Last Superstition” by Edward Feser.

He explains that science cannot prove or disprove God’s existence because it is within nature. He shows how metaphysics and philosophy are the tools to be used to determine the existence of God, morality etc.

Very heavy but worth a read if you really want to work through the arguments. I’m only halfway through but it has really made a few things clear for me.
 
I believe because of what I experienced. I experienced because I took a leap of faith. I took a leap of faith because reason says that the only alternative is suicide.
 
I believe in God because of the obvious design and beauty inherent in nature.

I believe in Christianity because the best way for God to reveal Himself is by becoming Incarnate.

I believe in Catholicism because it is historically united to Christ through the papacy.
 
ahintofclover said:
@Contra Mundam and nuntym:

I want this to be more of a focus on why you personally believe. 🙂 Care to reply back why?
Click to expand...
Let’s see…

I believe in God because something can’t come from nothing. Because strange things happen in the world that can’t be explained and which go against laws of nature. I believe that Christianity is true because Jesus fulfilled a number of very specific prophecies of the Old Testament. And finally, personal experience of God working in my life.
 
I imagine its mainly due to being brought up with family and friends who believed and believe in God (RC-Christian) God that is. I believe even Aquinas (might of been someone else) said that God is unfathomable with our human minds. I still believe due to unexplained coincidences all the time and an inside feeling. If one thinks about it there is no proof either way.

Atlas I know longer take the Bible literally, more allegoric, that started with reading very early history of the Gods, Persian, Egyptian, Greek, Roman, and Josephus. There is really no answer out there, people have believed in Gods, or a God since the beginnig.

So OP, its not your lack of knowledge as there is no evidence of God, or proof, Not knowing how your friend was raised or if he became an unbeliever its hard to say what I’d say to him.

Its up to your friend to find his own way, and he will, but there are different types of atheist out there and some of them I can’t stand talking God issues with them, but some overly religious people get on my nerves as well.😃

No matter what one believes , hopefully they believe in the Golden Rule and are compassionate
people, and many atheist are.

So if you ask me why I believe, I’d have to say , I just do.🙂
 
I believe in God because of direct experience. I’m Christian because I believe in God. I’m Catholic because I’m Christian. (In that order)

I was skeptical for a long time. I guess I was more of a deist. I’ve always felt that God’s existence as first principle was obvious but didn’t believe that God could possible care about what we do. I believe I was proven wrong. The only way to know that God exists is through experience, the only way to get to the experience is to seek Him.

Of course there is no way to prove any of this, an atheist (and even some Christians) would claim it’s purely psychological. I have no need to prove anything to anyone though, I know my God and I know that He knows me.
 
I believe quite simply because I cannot fathom this existence without an intelligent creator. There is far too much beauty and wonder for there not to be a guiding hand. Even leaving out all the other planets in all the other star systems in all the other galaxies in our universe, Earth alone is a treasure trove of amazing things. The dinosaurs alone could fill multiple lifetimes of study, as could the study of modern creatures, natural wonders, human past, etc.

Beyond that, the existence of rational thought, self-awareness and consciousness proves God to me… that and the existence of life period.
 
R_C said:
The question is not whether there is evidence or not.

The question is whether your friend is open to the possibility of the existence of God or not.

An agnostic may not believe in the evidence, or not consider the evidence as valid (since there is evidence, and an overwhelming amount of it), yet be open to the possibility of accepting God.

An atheist may simply reject the idea of God. That is, no amount of evidence would ever be sufficient evidence.

I say “may”, because this is by no means a general rule. Just an example.

I believe because I have seen. I cannot explain why, or what. All I know is that I can “see” God through the veil of faith.

I see Him reflected in the world, in all living beings, in the plants, in the stars…I see Him reflected in the love of a mother for her child, in the joy of a father for his son…I see Him reflected in a brother sacrificing himself to save his brother…I see him reflected in words that can take a battered soul and turn it into a seraphim burning of love…I can see Him reflected in those who find peace in tribulation, and despite sorrowful sufferings can always say or do something that can change someone’s life…I see Him when someone who was terminally ill suddenly heals, when someone who had nothing suddenly finds everything…I can see Him in the Holy Eucharist, in the Sacraments, in the Church that changes people’s lives and allows them to become holy, even to the peak of sainthood. I can see him in the depths of the mathematics, in the infinity of astronomy and in the infinitesimal of physics…I can see Him in the mysteries of chemistry and biology…

…and may anyone tell me that the “rational” option for which there is “evidence” is that all of the above is random and coincidental? That all of the above is not the evident and rational fruit of an infinite wisdom? That everything that is and means is just a coincidence? That all of the miracles - countless - must be denied - even if there is undisputable evidence and witnesses - simply because they do not “fit” into this “rational” option? Sorry, I find no reason to believe in this!
Click to expand...
Thank you for this beautiful statement which describes my feelings and experience perfectly.
 
ahintofclover said:
I have a friend who really likes to discuss morality stuff and we’ve been on this topic of “believing” for a while and I believe I’m stuck. He is saying “there is no reason to believe due to the current lack of evidence.” Essentially, the burden of proof falls upon the person who says it exists. In this case, it would be up to me, the Catholic, to show evidence of God. I have failed to provide empirical evidence (probably due to my own lack of skills) and thus, there is no reason to believe in it.

The question does not fall into the realm of “Does God exist or not” but more of why do you believe in something that you cannot prove?

As said previously, I’m not sure how to answer my friend, so I turn to you, the Catholic community. I don’t want to know what you would say to him, but I’m more curious:

Why do you believe?
Click to expand...
You could turn it around and ask how can your friend prove that his mother loves him. Or prove that his mother exists when he cannot see her or talk to her and hear her voice each and every minute he is away from her. Or ask your friend to prove that he will grow old and die someday, or that the Sun will rise in the morning. Where are the hard proofs for these things which we generally believe to be true? Ask him why he plans for the next day when there’s no proof it will come? He takes a lot on faith without proof, and it serves him well.

There are historical proofs that Jesus lived, taught and died, as He is mentioned in a number of independent sources. His closest friends were so moved by His life and words that they calmly and eagerly embraced martrydom rather than to be safe by denying Him or His teachings, which says a lot when you think about it. His moral teachings have transformed the entire world. We would not have human rights today if it were not for Jesus Christ, dying for all people and thereby conferring a great value upon people which was not present in the ancient world.
 
I believe because observing nature has shown me that there is rythm and order to the world that is not random. Even the so-called random acts of nature (hurricanes, floods, etc) seem to have a rythm to them that causes man to name whole periods of time as ‘seasons’.

And then I saw that, even without a season, what appear to be random acts are the result of something. The something is a result of something else and so on and so forth.

Eventually, it appears that everything stems from nothing and only when someone decides to redefine ‘nothing’ can we escape from this idea - that at some point there was a beginning which means something started it…something I think is someONE.

I then looked at the various gods and goddesses and belief systems and saw that Jesus Christ really embodies all that man was trying to find on his own. So then I looked at what the first followers of Jesus did - I looked at the historical data and saw that the first followers of Jesus did pretty much what I do when I go to Sunday Mass.

It dawned on me that, if St Justin Martyr were to return to earth today and walk into Big Valley Grace in Modesto he would have no idea what the people were doing. However, if he walked into the 7:30 am Mass at St Joseph’s and sat next to me he would be able to figure it out in about a minute.

I had been raised in the Catholic Faith. I left the Church and then, wouldn’t you know it, thought my way back into it…and today I am a noviate as a Lay Dominican!

Faith and Reason, the two have to go together. I ain’t the smartest but I know what I know…lololol…👍
 
The evidence for God are the things made as scripture says and it makes sense. We are so desensitized to the awesomness of creation that we keep looking for something to lift the doubt of a supreme being. The chances of a cell arising are 1 with more zeros then the pages can hold, let alone a human brain. We are silly, aren’t we?
 
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