Why do you hang on to lies and misconception abuot the true teachings of the Catholic Church?

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panoikei

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Most post from non-Catholics address the teachings of the Catholic Church from the anti-Catholic rhetoric propogated by lies, mininformation, misunderstanding and just simple hate. Sometimes the worst ones were Catholic at one time. I fell in to the worst kind. But the Holy Spirit answered my prayer and opened my eyes to the truth through a very long journey. I used to recite stuff that I knew was not the true teachings of the Church per the catechism. I’d like to see an open dialog that discusses this with more than myself explaining the problems. I don’t claim to have all the answers, but I’ve discovered that the only Church that could stand would be Catholic with 7 sacraments and a belief in the Trinitarian God.
 
I don’t think it’s that no one wishes to touch the subject, I think it’s that know one knows exactly what it is that you are looking for. In your refusal to give testimony for the rationalizations that motivated your own departure from the faith, you have denied the posters here a template on which to model their own responses.

Personally, I don’t see that there is much to be said. Thousands of words of florid prose on the subject all boil down to an explanation of the sin of Pride.
 
panoikei said:
I wouldn’t touch this either.
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Respectfully, panoikei, I also think that you’ve answered your own query since you’ve been on both sides of the argument now.

What does ‘panoikei’ mean?

Just curious.

:cool:
 
panoikei said:
Most post from non-Catholics address the teachings of the Catholic Church from the anti-Catholic rhetoric propagated by lies, misinformation, misunderstanding and just simple hate. Sometimes the worst ones were Catholic at one time. I fell in to the worst kind. But the Holy Spirit answered my prayer and opened my eyes to the truth through a very long journey. I used to recite stuff that I knew was not the true teachings of the Church per the catechism. I’d like to see an open dialog that discusses this with more than myself explaining the problems. I don’t claim to have all the answers, but I’ve discovered that the only Church that could stand would be Catholic with 7 sacraments and a belief in the Trinitarian God.
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Why did you do that, what was your motivation?:confused:
 
panoikei or πανοικει
I must give credit where credit is due.

by R. J. Grigaitis
churchofchrist.grigaitis.net/?local=conversions/finding.html
The first teaching I scrutinised was that although it is recorded in the book of Acts that whole families were baptised, the Greek wording of these accounts does not imply that young children were included. It was without effort that I found this teaching wrong. In Acts 16:15, the word οικος (oikos) is used, which means one’s household or one’s entire property. In Acts 16:34, the word πανοικει (panoikei) is used, which quite specifically means with all his house, or with his whole family. The use of these words did not mean that there were definitely young children in these families, but they did imply inclusion of young children if there were any, something the Edmonton Church of Christ said they did not. This was a small point, but nonetheless, a teaching that I was able to prove false.
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Grigaitis is also a convert. Our paths are similar, but different. Most of us came across the same problems.

Why you ask did I do this. I grew up in a mixed religious home. Mom and dad got married for the old fashioned reasons, shotgun weddings. Dad was floated out there for years as a non or barely practicing Catholi, sam ole stories you hear time after time. Mom and her very large family loathed Catholic teaching. It very difficult to be part of a family that doesn’t show you peace in love and acceptance. First, I felt like the only kids from a divorsed family in the 60’s. Mom and Dad fought for custody for many years. I was baptized at 14 months old. That should be the writing on the wall for “PROBLEM”. Mom did not want us baptized Catholic, but dad and his sneaky sisters mangaged to take the issue in their own hads. When mom found out my little brother was baptized, she went to a good old fashioned Protestant church to wash off that filthy Catholic baptism…no kidding. We know there can be only one valid baptism. But when you hate Catholicism as much as she did you’d understand why I didn’t know that I was Catholic.

Many years later, 14 and after having moved in with dad, he out of the blue set us up to be trained one on one with a priest to learn what we needed to receive our first communion. 6 months later, moved to Southern Baptist country. Transportaion to get to mass was an issue for a while. I don’t remember going to mass at all. When I got to city and stayed with grandparents, while dad is off with his new girlfriend in another state, I continue to go to mass and retreats…Love it…Steubenville, OH. Charismatic meetings and all. Move back to country, decided to become a Saint. I devoted a minimum of 3 to 4 hours per day in contemplative Prayer and seriouisly bible study with no one directing me. I had been convinced that if we all went to the bible that there would be no more divisions. I was skeptical about the Catholic stuff they couldn’t back up. But I experienced God’s presence in my life and couldn’t explain it. I knew Baptist couldn’t be it, because they …another issue, but for scriptural reasons. Pentecosts couldn’t be it for scriptural reasons. Litany of other faith couldn’t be it…

I went to 2 or 3 days of CCD classes to get confirmed in my senior year. I read my book. I got hold of my grandparent’s old Catholic encyclopedia and fell in love with the Pre Vatican II Church. Dad always told me that non-Catholic were bound to hell. Mom living even in another state didn’t practice or act like a Christian. All 3 of my biological brothers went through torment growing up. I ended up choosing the seminary to give my life to God, but many seminarians seemed feminine and one even tried to take advantage of me if you know what I mean. It crushed me. I started acting macho to cover up my sensitive side because I thought that others were getting the wrong idea about me. Then my first semester spiritual director, 3 weeks prior to finals, called me over for a weekend to sail a boat. I was very naive and had no idea what was happening. I was only 18 and green as can be…wet behind the ears so to speak. I wondered why he broke open an old bottle of champaign while playing chest. Well long story short he made a very clearn pass on me in my sleep. I woke up in shock and waited until I calmed down to hop on the motorcycle my brother loaned me. It was very difficult for me. I turned in the priest…they were hiding him. I was totally scandalized and very afraid of having obtained a bad reputation for being gay or something I wasn’t. Another priest replied to me in another conversation a few years later, “what’s for with homosexuality”. Well I’m the first that if it were okay by God I say great, but that’s just not the case. I’m not gay. The bishop said nothing and when I found my first girlfriend since 10th grade, I wanted to lose my virginity, but to a girl, not a guy. So I did stupid things and called to tell the diocese I wouldn’t return… I ran away from a good vocation. I truly wanted to be a priest. But I came to believe that no one was acting like Christians. This ecumenical game of even with Catholics was stupid and said it all. Many catholics did not teach the true teachings of the Church. They even said heretical things. My own Catholic family was sketchy at best on this subject.

continued to next
 
cont’d

I joined the military to get away from it all after my girlfriend dumped me…it was never meant to be. She was my excuse not to return to the sleezy seminary with all of thoses seemingly men with homosexual tendencies it seemed. SORRY this is so graphic. I was young, went overseas, returned to practicing faithful Catholicism instead of cafeteria Catholicm. Dedicated my life to become a preist again if God didn’t bring me a faithful Catholic woman. Returned to the states and met a women through a friend that I even tried to get away from once there was a breach in proper Christian edicate. I left for her and my own good because I knew that a Catholic and a Protestant like her would never work. But her family was so simple and yet Christian. I was returning to the seminary to change things, to be a good priest to teach peoplel the actual teachings of the church instead of all the heresy propogated after VCII. My dad even complained and went so far as to say that the Catholic Church no longer exists and that it died about 50 years prior.

My wife’s family convinced me that the Catholic Church was apostate and that their church was the one true church with similar beliefs and practices. But the one main thing that really got me was marriage. That community is more strict about marraige than the Catholic Church. And they don’t over complicate things like most Catholics complain about. I got baptized in her church and a few weeks later got married in her church. I still carry the picture with me. Now, I didn’t have to choose which parent was correct about which parent is hell bound, now both are hell bound…joke. But I actually believed this because of the historical facts.

That’s enough…it’s too much to get into, embarrassing and very painful. The only reason I left is because I thought I wasn’t Catholic really. I though the entire thing was made up. Even Catholics propogate the same dumb lies…and they still exist in the Catholic schools so I seen with my own eyes. The only reason I’m Catholic now is my wife. I was pushing towards the Orthodox Church because I still suspected that much of the problem was that the Catholic Church tried to seize power or something like that. But further study of Orthodoxy made me realize just how similar Catholicism is to Orthodoxy. Don’t let them get away with telling you their bishops stand on their own…that’s just not true. They have and teach the same hierachy and have as many problems there as we do. Protestants just haven’t gotten the memo to attack Orthodoxy at the same level as Catholism.

The story is long and really painful to talk about. But I feel so guilty about having walked away from my vocation to the priesthood that I try to spend time here catechizing and learning as much as I can. I want to write a book with detail but for many reasons it may be too difficult because of scandals in not only my life, but my wife’s family’s faith. Protestants are not what they say. They have a lot of nerve coming here with their anti-Catholic rhetoric.
 
Quite a story, Panoikei. I am sure it was difficult to go over all that again and to put it into words. Today is Palm Sunday and the Passion is read in every Catholic Church. How much guilt and shame Peter felt—even Judas felt! But while Judas did not, could not (?), believe in the Lord’s forgiveness and hung himself in shame, Peter and the other Apostles went on to give their lives to the Lord. The Lord has a plan for you now, in your married state, that will give glory to Him. Will pray for you this Holy Week!
 
Why does anybody hang on to the lies and misconceptions about any church? Probably because they are comfortable with it and with the comfort comes the lack of desire to leave the comfort zone. Most churches/denominations are misunderstood by those of other denominations.

Annie
 
I notice a lot of fear and disdain of whoever is different.
Old Americans (“all my people are pre-Revolution”; “We were here before the Mayflower”; “Well, we were ALL pre-Mayflower in the first colonies…”) are sometimes suspicious of anything that smacks of Europe to them. They see Europe as not just the Old World but another world, one where mysterious customs prevent honest people from living simple lives. It’s a Pilgrim attitude that still exists.
Country people are suspicious of anything that seems citified in many cases. That can mean anyone who isn’t whatever religion most of their townfolk are.
Some upper-middle-class people are susicious of anything that reminds them of the poor, the lower middle classes and the leisure class at the top, for none of those groups tend to display upper-middle-class manners and tastes (stiffness, drabness, reserve etc.)
A lot of Americans, especially Westerners, are suspicious of anyone who seems formal, anything organized, any large group and whatever is older than, say, the Oregon Trail.
Many people who couldn’t handle celibacy can’t accept anyone who can; too different.
So the rumors begun by a few mentally ill or dishonest people keep going because some people’s developmental stage is still at the level of using tall tales to express fear and worry, and other people are really convinced by the rumors they hear. When a story jibes with someone’s sense of “how the world works” it is held up to a lot less examination than otherwise. Then, when they learn it’s not true, they have cognitive dissonance: the unbearable conflict between how they feel about themselves and what they know. so, some repress the sense that they have been fooled and keep retelling what they know isn’t true. It shields their awareness from the feeling of having been used.
 
panoikei said:
Most post from non-Catholics address the teachings of the Catholic Church from the anti-Catholic rhetoric propogated by lies, mininformation, misunderstanding and just simple hate. Sometimes the worst ones were Catholic at one time. I fell in to the worst kind. But the Holy Spirit answered my prayer and opened my eyes to the truth through a very long journey. I used to recite stuff that I knew was not the true teachings of the Church per the catechism. I’d like to see an open dialog that discusses this with more than myself explaining the problems. I don’t claim to have all the answers, but I’ve discovered that the only Church that could stand would be Catholic with 7 sacraments and a belief in the Trinitarian God.
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Is the catechism today the same as lets say the catechism 500 years ago, 100 years ago?
 
panoikei said:
panoikei or πανοικει
I must give credit where credit is due.

. . .
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Misbehavior in the seminaries, inadequate or false religious teaching, a predatory priesthood or even corrupt hierarchies are all issues that the Church has had to deal with throughout her lifetime. None of these, I may add, are exclusive to Catholicism. There is nothing new here, even as regards the most depraved and shocking of reports.

It is important to understand, therefore, that the focus on these elements as a means of staying outside of the Church is a sort of rationalization. It ignores, as it must, these same issues in other churches. It may very well be resistant to arguments that point this out.

For one who has had direct contact with these evils, the question about why it is one clings to the lies and misconceptions one has created for oneself has an obvious answer: one recognizes the evil and actively, though improperly, seek to distance oneself from it. Man’s innate abhorrence of evil is engaged in such a one but it has been twisted to incorrectly direct its ire to the Church. One has fallen victim to deception and has allowed one’s humility to die within oneself and prefer one’s own narrow authority to the just submission Christ commands us to have before His Church.

Since there can exist no truly just rationale for either leaving or staying outside the Church, the issue one finds oneself dealing with is one of Pride. The lies and misconceptions one adopts in order to justify this sin are nothing more than the means by which an individual prefers himself to God.
 
panoikei said:
Most post from non-Catholics address the teachings of the Catholic Church from the anti-Catholic rhetoric propogated by lies, mininformation, misunderstanding and just simple hate. Sometimes the worst ones were Catholic at one time. I fell in to the worst kind. But the Holy Spirit answered my prayer and opened my eyes to the truth through a very long journey. I used to recite stuff that I knew was not the true teachings of the Church per the catechism. I’d like to see an open dialog that discusses this with more than myself explaining the problems. I don’t claim to have all the answers, but I’ve discovered that the only Church that could stand would be Catholic with 7 sacraments and a belief in the Trinitarian God.
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Oh brother next thing you know you will be claiming the Great Awakening was a hoax.
 
His alone,

Your are a spiteful person full of hate. That was below the belt and reveals the true person you are inside. Reflects you agenda here as well.
 
Eric,
No I did not rationalize anything. I believed I was in the wrong church. How utterly moronic. And no it doesn’t ignore the same issues in other churches. Risistent to arguements. I appraoched priest after priest and family and all I got is you’ll never be able to understand. That is control tactics that is manifested in clericalism. It is like saying you’ll never be able to understand because the holy spirit will never let you know. That is almost haow it was told to me. I tried to learn and understand. It was deeply rooted in sinful and ignorance. My own Catholic dad helped convince me of wrong thoughts in his constant ridicule of the Churches illicit priests, nuns and other Catholics. I was left with nothing to justify being Catholic. I thought it was an apostate religion full of man made laws that were oposite of God’s laws and will for us. I always loved God, even when I questioned his existence and feared losing my soul. That is why I left Catholicism. I thought the religion was wrong. But it was only through learning the real history and learning critical thinking skills that helped me return.

Living in an environement like mine opened the door to absolute confusion. Leaving the Catholic Church was a reaction to seeing the massive heresies and being “educated” why it was wrong. It was like hanging on to a superstitious pagan religion that tried to justify its illicit practices. I practiced Catholicism because of my dad. My mother did not approve of it and it created a lot of division in my family life. Had I stayed with my mother I’d ended up being a Protestant… I have no memories of ever attending church as a family…at all. To me, in my youthful thinking and poor adult guidance, Catholicism was not true to me and I came close to rejecting a belief in God several times and opted to accept him. My thought was how could God ordain a Christian religion that allowed such sinfulness? I was convinced in my youth because of being raised in Protestant home intil I was a teen. I became a practicing Catholic only after mnoving in with my father who for the first few years didn’t even direct us to attend church. Dad told me over and over that the Catholic Church doesn’t exist anymore. He also said that the scriptures were written by a bunch of monks and were flawed with error partly because I converted to solo scriptura.

Yes, you are right, there is no justification for leaving Catholicism if you really know. Leaving is wrong, but God led me through the chaos and led me back home. It was seeking the truth that made the difference. I am still considering the clergy but as a deacon this time. My oldest son has already shocked us up front about his interest in the priesthood. We’re doing something right at least. Even our priests that know my story confirm the Holy Spirit may have been guiding me through it…maybe to help my wife…who is a wonderful addition to the Church. We forget, God transends time and knew I’d return. My wifes dad was a bishop before he died. We have a family of preachers, deacons and teachers. In fact, we’re both switching careers to teaching. No one in the Church ever bothered to lead me to the early church fathers or could quote any scripture that would help me find peace with the Catholic beliefs that were constantly attacked in my Protestant family. Imagine visiting relatives and people constantly slamming some Catholic belief. I was surrounded by anti-Catholicism. I had no idea how to defend myself and doubted much of it all along. Seminaries are beginning to teach apologetics, but it’s still not widespread. That is why I’m on this board, to research, test waters, and practice. I even joined the Knights of Columbus, a 3rd degree Knight waiting for the 4th degree. My family is very active in the parish and have been asked to do things requiring a good example and be of sound faith.

You seemed to have assume so much, including God’s direction. Many if not most people in my life then and now are not Catholic. We had to use perfect strangers to stand in for our convalidation and they are cafateria Catholics. Only one Aunt fit the qualification for godmother for my children and refused. That puts her in lame Catholic in my book. You don’t reject family when they are in need. The DRE was shocked to hear of this as well as the priest. God led us through it and now I spend much of my time educating other Catholics constantly trying to open their eyes. Father supports my cause and has expressed his apprecitation even to the point of recently asking me to sit on a committee to begin a new Coucil of Knights. He along with other clergy have recommended that I discern the diaconate. The only really practicing Catholics in our life are not close at all. My Catholic family is still swimming in chaos, justifying their actions or rationalizing this or that. The real irony is that my grandfather, their father, attended the seminary for 2 years. They never said anything for some reason. A lot of cradle Catholics acted very immorally by misinforming the laity of what VCII said.
 
I know about the scandals in Protestants churches, non-Christian faiths and secular organizations as well. But my immediate experience was filled with scandal and I will not elaborate to fulfill the idol curiosity of those want to hear scum. My first to a priest made his eyes nearly pop out of his head with his jaw wide open saying I see why and I understand why you reacted …blah blah blah. So far all the priests I’ve spoken with understand why I left. The point is that I kept the door open for God to show me. I felt that men were not to be trusted. I went to the church of my childhood influence. It was what I truly believed and was trying to find justificaton for saying rosaries, praying to saints, etc. No one either would or could explain it to me effectively all the while the overwhelming majority of my Protestant family convinced me the Catholic Church was lying to us. Someone needed to step away from their comfort zone and walk me through it. You see, I saw more than the average scandal it appears or others are still trying to impower the illicit behaviors by acting like it didn’t happen. That is bad. Clearly there is a great need for catechesis on this subject. I’ve considered getting involved in ministry to “protect children and vulnerable adults”. My views on this have become much more settled since this past summer, now that my experiences encompass more than just the Catholic Church. I’ve found peace. It haunted me for years.
 
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