Why do you hate Islam?

[Agabriel]

i think he wants you to admit to these things he is saying.

Trust me, he does not speak for all of us.- to Hadi

to agabriel

Bush was trying a bit to hard to be like his dady, he got a little carried away in the process.

((Yes, I was in the Military and still keep abreast of military matters.)) you where in the US army, what kinds of stuff did they say about Islam there? Thank you for serving you nation by the way.

as of Pakistan, they only recently got a new government committed to rooting out militant extremism. they have so far done a bag up Job.

((You can preach to me all you want, but your words are only the usual words of someone who hasn’t read the Quran and the other texts of Islam.))

do you have something personal against Islam?

i don’t have to read the Quran to know your wrong. you obviously read it looking for the bad parts. do you really think so many people would embrace such a violent philosophy?

PEACE BE WITH YOU.

HickmanJosh

Are you aware of the title of this thread? Why do you hate Islam?

yes, you do have to read the Quran to know that I am correct. Unfortunately it is a rather poorly written book and it is hard to understand all on its own and you will need to backup of the hadith and sira.

I am just telling it like it is.

Do I have something personal against an idiology that tells its followers to not question their texts, Muhammed, or that if they leave they will die or be outcasts (please read what I gave to you). This idiology has caused the deaths and genocides of so many millions that no one really has an idea how many have died, or were forced to convert, or were subjugated and lived a life of persecution on a daily basis. Its front is a religion while its tactics are along the lines of a totalitarian regime with imperialistic goals.

It has the usual ‘us vs them’ mentality. Muhammed called them ‘believers vs unbelievers’.

The world is divided up into dar al harb and dar al Islam. Dar al Harb is the realm of war and they (sort of) forget to tell us that part of Islam while telling us that Islam is peaceful. While they live in dar al Harb they are in eternal war until we either accept Islam (revert to Islam), or accept subjugation (dhimmitude) or die.

And their Prophet told them to deceive us (I already gave you a link to taqiyya/kithman).

Since you don’t want to take the time to read the articles or view the videos here is a quote from one of the articles:

Centrality of jihad in islam

“Muslims are religiously obliged to disseminate the Islamic faith throughout the world… If non-Muslims submit to conversion or subjugation, this call can be pursued peacefully. If they do not, Muslims are obliged to wage war against them.” World peace, according to Islamic teaching, “is reached only with the conversion or submission of all mankind to Islam.”

To summarize our discussion so far: (1) The command to wage jihad is laid on all Muslims. (2) Jihad must be carried out until the whole world has been brought under the power of the Islamic state. (3) Even when Muslims lack the present ability to wage jihad, the hope of jihad remains alive in their hearts, enabling them to wait for generations for a new chance to spread the faith. And finally, (4) jihad is not a recent revival of the late 20th century but has periodically erupted during long ages of apparent Muslim quiescence.

You keep asking me questions and I will keep providing you with materials. Hopefully you will read, read, read…

Most of the jihad talked about in the Quran and the sira is the violent Jihad (97%) and only 3% is of the ‘inner struggle’ type of Jihad.

 

[HickmanJosh]

The Islamic militants are using Jihad as an excuse for there insane strategy. it is my understanding that most clerics think that they are abusing the Quran for there own proposes.

((Since you don’t want to take the time to read the articles or view the videos here is a quote from one of the articles)) i am not interested in reading messages of hate and xenophobia.

your posts are fostering distrust and misunderstanding. nothing good can come from these.

and i have a question Why do you hate Islam?

i have another question Do you believe in a conspiracy to topple western governments and replace them with pro-Islam leaders?

PEACE BE WITH YOU

HickmanJosh

 

[Hadi]

Start a grass roots movement (that means get the people together) to start protesting against the violence in Islam, the violence that is taught to your children, the skewed history of Jihad, and to start a movement to start tolerating others, stop slavery in islam, etc.

At least one, or more, of these things could be done by the millions upon millions of Muslims that do not live and are not suppressed in their own Muslim lands. Many of these millions live in lands that are free and they can indeed do something.

What is truly sorry are the state of Muslim children’s schools.

A grass root movement that starts to enlist the help of other Muslims to start proving they are indeed peaceful and start throwing out that radical garbage in their own mosques and madrassas. Start telling Saudi Arabia to keep their wahabbi clerics in Saudi Arabia - you don’t want them. And to keep Jihadists from going to train in Pakistan and elsewhere.

I could go on, but pick one or two items and start a grass roots movement. And stop telling us we don’t know the Quran and other texts just because you don’t like what you hear. It is too late, the ‘cat is out of the bag’, many of us know the agenda of what is in the Quran.

Unfortunately, I don’t know how you can change that book when you are told not to question it and that it is straight from your Allah. Funny since before it was gathered together from the palm leaves, and other miscellaneous items the words were written down on - goats would eat it. It seems that your God didn’t care if a goat ate parts of it.

Not even Muslim women in our lands are speaking out about the violence of Muslim women in Muslim lands. Instead we had Muslim women on these threads (they are gone) denying it even happened, or would make excuses for it. The usual excuses. And the number of women who do stand up and protest the violence against women - are so few that they hardly matter.

I keep hearing about the millions who are peaceful - well, they don’t do a darn thing except keep sending in their money to Muslim charities for the Jihadists and keep trying to tell us how ‘peaceful’ Islam is.

So you want me to go everyday morning with my sign protesting ,ok ,for how many years ?? 5 years ?? 50 years ?? or until no one commits violence ??

and how many of us do you want to start a group "that supposedly has the power over the government of Saudi Arabia " 5 members ? 50 members ??

How do I stop slavery in Islam ?? please explain …

Do you want me to change the Quran ??

how about Hijab , do you want us to take it off from the head of muslim women ??

I am serious in asking you ,I really want to hear your answers

 

[HickmanJosh]

To Hadi. i think extremism isent just limited to a few terrorists.

HickmanJosh

 

[HickmanJosh]

Islam is not as violent as some people seem to think, anyone have anything they would like to add to this?

Its one Crazy world.

HickmanJosh

 

[Hadi]

Islam is not as violent as some people seem to think, anyone have anything they would like to add to this?

Its one Crazy world.

HickmanJosh

I would say that most of the violence committed (by Muslims , Christians , or any other group ) is all rooted on one word , “Revenge”… and religion is not necessarily involved in it…for instance, the abortionist murder was about the revenge of the killed babies…and the ongoing violence between Sunni and Shias in Iraq is a revenge of some group killing a leader of another group …etc

 

[HickmanJosh]

so… the question comes to mind, did the west invade Afghanistan and Iraq in revenge of 9/11 or was there a more humanitarian/religious reason?

HickmanJosh

 

[Agabriel]

The Islamic militants are using Jihad as an excuse for there insane strategy. it is my understanding that most clerics think that they are abusing the Quran for there own proposes.

((Since you don’t want to take the time to read the articles or view the videos here is a quote from one of the articles)) i am not interested in reading messages of hate and xenophobia.

your posts are fostering distrust and misunderstanding. nothing good can come from these.

and i have a question Why do you hate Islam?

i have another question Do you believe in a conspiracy to topple western governments and replace them with pro-Islam leaders?

PEACE BE WITH YOU

HickmanJosh

Ignorance is not peace. Sticking one’s head in the sand doesn’t make you safe - it only gives the other guy a big target.

If you do not read then you will not know where (what you call) the militants are getting their justification for doing what they do. You will not know why so many moderates do nothing and why their Muslim charities were closed down. You will not know why the moderates do nothing until infidels finally get tired of their persecution/aggression and fight back.

If you cannot read my posts, you will not read the answer to your question. I can figure out why you would have a problem reading the other stuff I gave to you, or the Quran and other Islamic texts.

I don’t know where else to take this discussion with you since you won’t read.

If you read the history of Jihad, you can answer your own questions too. I won’t answer anymore questions from you. All you want to do is get me to answer you so you can tell me how wrong I am and you are just guessing what Islam is all about.

Thanks but no thanks, Agabriel.

 

[Hadi]

Agabriel …I want to see you answer to my post #525

 

[slyboots]

“If Islam is so evil , God would not allow it to continue”
therefore, it must have some truth in it …such as

Worship one God , respect the parents, respect the neighbors and love the orphans, don’t steal, pay charity to the needy , be modest , be kind toward others, forgive others…etc

Look, you have to figure this out. Catholics believe that hating wrongness is a righteous thing. Catholics believe Islam is wrong. Therefore we can hate Islam and be righteous. We do not hate those who mistakenly accept Islam as right. We pray they will see the error of this belief and they will turn their lives over to Christ who is GOD.
You can do good and still be following an illict faith. Which is what Islam is.

 

[Agabriel]

so… the question comes to mind, did the west invade Afghanistan and Iraq in revenge of 9/11 or was there a more humanitarian/religious reason?

HickmanJosh

The Al Qaeda was in both Iraq and Afghanistan. We went to Afghanistan for 9/11. The media, Democrats and left wing liberals were in a ‘hate fest’ with GWB so after everyone was ok with our taking out Saddam, they then went after him - for taking out Saddam.

Now, I think GWB should have told us the ties between Al Qaeda and Saddam. It would have been easier on him, I think. I am not certain. The left was so aggravated that they lost two elections they went after GWB like sharks. What I found appauling was some notable left wingers going to Saddam and giving him ‘aid and comfort’, basically moral support. Then they fled when they found out he wanted to place them where he thought out troops would hit first.

I will post this link to a book yet again (geez, I apologize to everyone who has seen this same link time and again). ‘The Link, The Secret Relationship between Saddam and Al Qaida’

It tells of the link between Al Qaeda and Saddam. It tells of Saddam being in the middle of many of the attacks against us. It tells of him threatening his neighbors. And it tells of him not being upfront with the WMDs. One of his generals, General Sada, also told us in his book that Saddam did indeed have WMDs and he shipped them out in commercial flights to Syria. (source ‘Saddam’s Secrets’)

This book also goes into other ties between many notable Muslims and Al Qaeda, Al Husseini and the Nazi connection, etc. Maybe many have forgotten the Israelis taking out the Syrian nuclear site(s) a couple of years ago. Also that Saddam threatened Israel with chemical weapons. An interesting side note is the French’s helping Saddam make these chemical weapons. That little tidbit is in the book, ‘The Link…’ Chapter 5.

None of these wars have been for religious purposes on our side. But, GWB realized that he couldn’t just wipe Saddam out and leave. the same with Afghanistan. Only Afghanistan was harder to get a handle on. Our guys rebuilt much of the Iraqi’s infrastructure. If we would have left after the war Iran would have been in there and we would be in there a third time only it would be worse since the people would think we would just be gone in a few months and they would be left on their own.

And for Muslims to bad mouth our guys in Iraq, or any left winger who is on a ‘hate Bush tirade’, is just beyond the pale.

After learning about Islam though - I personally don’t think the peace will last without us there. I don’t want us to be there forever though. Too many of our guys have died and it is about time Muslims take care of their own.

If the Saudis are worried about Iran then it is about time the Saudis get their ‘princely’ hands dirty and fight their own battles. They buy aircraft and can’t even fly them. (just like they did during the 6 Day War!)

The Saudi’s main exports are oil and Jihadists. It is about time they use their own men to fight their own battles.

 

[Agabriel]

So you want me to go everyday morning with my sign protesting ,ok ,for how many years ?? 5 years ?? 50 years ?? or until no one commits violence ??

and how many of us do you want to start a group "that supposedly has the power over the government of Saudi Arabia " 5 members ? 50 members ??

How do I stop slavery in Islam ?? please explain …

Do you want me to change the Quran ??

how about Hijab , do you want us to take it off from the head of muslim women ??

I am serious in asking you ,I really want to hear your answers

So I take it you are from Saudi Arabia? It doesn’t say in your profile.

Well, stop deceiving others about Islam is a start.

In a totalitarian society like yours, one based on total Islamic law (which should tell all the nay sayers about the true Islam!) it would be hard to do. Dangerous too. I am not advocating that. But stop deceiving others about Islam would be a start. We have a couple of Muslims on these threads who are Muslims on their outside but Christians on their insides. And they tell the truth - not taqiyya/kithman.

I belong to a grassroots organization and I will be with it for the rest of my life because I am totally aware that in Islam, it is a neverending war against us infidels.

I give speeches (one to be given next month to another organization) about what our group is doing and what our organization does, I do research into what Muslims are wanting to put in our kid’s textbooks, I send emails/letters/faxes, and calls, to our politicians, sign people up so as to get on the email and do the same. My current project has been ongoing and it has been the MSA in our colleges.

I am thinking of even taking a class at some of the colleges nearby and attending its ‘Islamic Studies’ classes. Maybe see how the first one goes and if I feel like it attend some more classes and maybe even go to a different college. I don’t care about a grade, or anything like that, so I can see exactly what they are teaching our young adults first hand.

Some of our local colleges are getting more radical (anti-semitic) and I want to see what is going on in those classrooms.

I don’t have the answers to, or for, your society if you are living in Saudi Arabia. If there is a way to change things then that would be for you to know. Do not endanger your life. From what I gather from the other two Muslims that I mentioned, it is indeed dangerous.

It actually took me a long time to write this since I actually got worried for you. Do not take a chance with your life.

And as I stated above, this is what happens under Sharia laws - under Islam. The freedom of a human being is taken away. Some people’s freedoms (slaves, dhimmi, women) more so than others.

 

[bkovacs]

Islam is not as violent as some people seem to think, anyone have anything they would like to add to this?

Its one Crazy world.

HickmanJosh

Oh no!. You just hear about someone blowing themselves up every other day and taking a few innocent people with them. Real peaceful religion!.
Where in the Quran does it say that suicide is justified?

 

[planten]

Look, you have to figure this out. Catholics believe that hating wrongness is a righteous thing. Catholics believe Islam is wrong. Therefore we can hate Islam and be righteous. We do not hate those who mistakenly accept Islam as right. We pray they will see the error of this belief and they will turn their lives over to Christ who is GOD.
You can do good and still be following an illict faith. Which is what Islam is.

** slyboots, you are partially right. You can hate Islam and be praying for those who have joined Islam. But can your hatred go along with your prayers?? I am sure Jesus never preached or taught such a bad thing which you are adopting.

The Muslims also feel that church teachings are absolutely wrong. So they should also hate the christians… That is not good. Why not “Love for all and Hatred for none.” That could be the best formula to bring peace and happiness to this world? Not all muslims are jihadis. They seem to come to realise now that their practice of killing non-muslims was wrong. They will learn more.**

 

[lid2]

Testimony of Christopher Bohar - A former Satanist (and Christian for some time) from Pennsylvania, USA, was prompted by the tragic events of September 11th to undertake a serious study of Islam: “I learned that Islam is not a religion of violence or terrorism but a religion of understanding, peace, love, and harmony with God and others”

In fact, such misinformation and false propaganda often leads to discrimination and acts of violence against Muslims. A case in point is the anti-Muslim campaign in the American media following the Oklahoma bomb blast, where the press was quick to declare a ‘Middle Eastern conspiracy’ behind the attack. The culprit was later identified as a soldier from the American Armed Forces.

Before India achieved independence from British rule, some freedom fighters of India who did not subscribe to non-violence were labeled as terrorists by the British government. The same individuals have been lauded by Indians for the same activities and hailed as ‘patriots’. Thus two different labels have been given to the same people for the same set of actions. One is calling him a terrorist while the other is calling him a patriot. Those who believed that Britain had a right to rule over India called these people terrorists, while those who were of the view that Britain had no right to rule India called them patriots and freedom fighters.

Terrorism is defined by the American government as the threat or the use of violence to advance a political cause by individuals or groups, whether acting for or in opposition to established governmental authority, when such actions are intended to shock, stun, or intimidate a target group wider than the immediate victims. Actually such a general definition will include all wars of liberation from the American War of Independence to the French Revolution. The worst aspect and perhaps the most common feature of terrorism is the unleashing of violence against innocent civilians.

As the US murder of unarmed and distressed Afghans continues and intensifies each day, the simultaneous murder of values and universally accepted fundamental human principles is taking place on such a wide scale that if the world leaders still choose not to remove the blindfold of American influence from their eyes the whole world will turn into a perpetual inferno of violence and chaos.

Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world?
cnn.com/WORLD/9704/14/egypt.islam/
defenselink.mil/news/Oct2…200110043.html
themodernreligion.com/convert/am.htm

Beneficial Links for Non-Muslims
muslim-answers.org
islam-guide.com/
al-sunnah.com/onlyforyou.htm
convertstoislam.org/
muslim-answers.org/am-toc.htm#BIBLE

 

[pjk123]

Before posting,ranting,raving on the death cult islam ,Why Not Try to keep your mind leave Islam for 5 minutes and think without bigotry?Try sometime.

I know that islum is scientific,fastest growing,superior death cult.please don’t rave here.it is like shitting in enemies mouth by posting it here.Thanks but NO Thanks.

 

[dzheremi]

You know, Lid2, it might be helpful if you were to actually write something yourself rather than these silly cut and paste jobs. About your links about “Islam, the fastest growing faith in the world”, one of them doesn’t work, and of the ones that do, they are articles that are a dozen years old, and/or quote from such sources as a February 1929 edition of the New York Times and the Nissau and Suffolk Edition of Newsweek from 1989. You know, real top notch sources for proving that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world today, in 2009…

If this is the best you can do, you’ll have to pardon me for remaining unconvinced! There are arguments to be made that Islam’s claim to be the “fastest growing religion” are (like everything else non-Muslims are told about Islam by proselytizers like you) very suspicious and possibly even wrong. For instance, see articles like this one from 2001. Far be it for me to deny what seems like a reasonable claim on your part (in that the absolute growth rate, taking into account reproduction and immigration trends, is overall higher for Muslims than for Christians), but in terms of absolute numbers of conversions, I’m afraid that Pentecostal Christianity appears to have beaten us both. From the Wikipedia article on claims of the “fastest growing religion”:

From the period between 2000 and 2005, Pentecostalism experienced a global growth rate of 488% expanding from 115 million to 588.5 million[7] global adherents. This classes Pentecostalism as the fastest growing religion world wide.[8]

How much did Islam grow over that same period? I bet it was less than 488%…

Islam can legitimately claim to be the fastest growing religion in certain parts of the world (the Middle East, of course, and Europe), but claims as to its worldwide growth must be looked at very cautiously, especially when they are erroneously used to claim something about the truth of the religion (a classic logical fallacy).

 

[ferdie]

Please pray for the people of Iran who are now struggling for their rights.

 

[HickmanJosh]

First of all i would like to say i have a deep respect for the devout nature of Islam and its teachings on modesty.

((“If Islam is so evil , God would not allow it to continue”
therefore, it must have some truth in it …such as

Worship one God , respect the parents, respect the neighbors and love the orphans, don’t steal, pay charity to the needy , be modest , be kind toward others, forgive others…etc))

God has allowed Satan to survive and continue his evil, personally i don’t think Islam is evil God has also aloud the Christian church to grow and prosper therefore it must not be evil ether. both must serve a propose in his Plan.

as for all of these other things, they are all taught by the catholic church, and i assume you mean they are big parts of Islam as well,

#1 the trinity is a mystery to the church, nobody on earth knows how three distinct persons can be one god, that’s just the way it is, this is not a polytheistic religion.

#2 one of the ten commandments all Christians are obligated to fallow is to respect your parents wishes and choices unless they are morally wrong.

#3 Jesus told us not just to respect our neighbors but to love them, and he also taught us that we must care for the poor and misfortuned as if they where him.

#4 stealing is a big sin, yet another of the ten commandments.

#5 same as the last part of #3

#6 modesty is the best policy, popular culture has twisted peoples minds into thinking its there god given right to ware whatever they want wherever they want. the RCC says that our bodies are temples and they must be respected and cared for, not defiled.

#7 the church teaches little scarifies like smiling or giving to the poor are big things for God and by doing them you are making him happy, now as for big acts like setting up a charity, those make God dance.

#8 the RCC teaches forgiveness above all else (except maybe love). if we do not forgive our enemies then we would be by our human nature, forced to take revenge and make this planet a hell hole nobody wants it to be.

see even to most “violent and evil” religion on earth still has many good attributes that can easily be respected and accepted.

Does anybody hear have viable, undeniable, verifiable proof that Islam is as violent as our friend Agabriel claims?

peace be with you ALL

HickmanJosh

 

[sedonaman]

Please !!

Yes I know of the Muslim involvement with the Nazis,don’t treat like some ignorant

here is the scene :

1- Jakasaki complained about the “silence” of the majority of Muslims toward evil actions committed by their fellow Muslims.

2- I answered that Christians are also guilty of being silent, I provided few examples

…

A common tactic of Muslims in debates with Christians is to shift the focus from Islam to Christianity, in effect bringing Christianity down to the level of Islam. If Islam is so great, why doesn’t it learn from the failings of Christianity? This tactic is the “tu quoque” logical fallacy. What Christianity/Christians did or didn’t do in the past is irrelevant to the failings of Islam/Muslims today. We all know it is just one of the games Muslims play, so you won’t get any mileage out of it here.