Why do you hate Islam?

[ZAKI]

Zaki, may i ask why you went from atheist to Christian, then to Islam?

HickmanJosh

Yes you may.

Well I didn’t really care about god or anything for that matter and then my mum started taking me to church for a while and I considered myself a christian. my dad gave me a Quran for my birthday (bcz he was a muslim) and i read it and did some research and decided to become a muslim. I’m still learning new things about islam even now and I go on this site to see christian’s perspective on islam and a muslim website to see their views and learn more things.

wasalam

 

[HickmanJosh]

Did you see any of the violent things said on this Forum in the Qur’an, if so what have you learned about them?

HickmanJosh

 

[jakasaki]

Hate is a strong word - I don’t care for it. Here is my partial list.

The koran differs widely from the Bible on such persons as Adam, Noah, Lot, Abraham, Ishmael and Isaac, and Moses, Jesus, Mother Mary.

The koran denies the actual and physical crucifixion of Jesus Christ.

The koran grants “special” marriage privileges only to mohamad . 4 wives for the rest of the followers of islam, but mohamad can have as many as he wants.

The koran allows a muslim to be polygamous with up to four wives, but mohamad can have many more, even young Aishia at the age of 6 while he was in his 50’s.

The koran grants mohamad twenty percent from raids, wars, and conquests.

The koran permits husbands to hit their wives even if the husbands

The koran says that mohamad had little or no authority over some evil jinn who came into his presence. Jesus fought satans temptations - mohamad could not.

The koran allows mature men to marry and have sex with prepubescent girls = mohamad 50 & little Aishia at 6, but yes he waited until she was 9 …

The koran orders the mutilation of male and female thieves.

The koran endorses slavery, and mohamad himself traded in slaves and owned many.

The koran says that slave-girls are sexual property for their male owners.

The koran orders torture crucifixion and mutilation.

The koran orders sexual sinners to be whipped.

The hadith commands that adulterers should be stoned to death.

The hadith commands that homosexuals should be executed.

The koran says that a woman’s testimony counts half of a man’s testimony because of her “forgetfulness.”

The koran allows an injured plaintiff to exact legal revenge—physical eye for physical eye, literally.

The koran orders death for individual critics and opponents of mohamad.

The koran celebrates mohamad slaughter and enslavement of a thriving Jewish tribe Qurayza and his confiscation of their property.

The koran orders warfare on Christians and Jews around the time of mohamads first crusade

The koran orders warfare and death for polytheists who refuse to convert.

The koran confuses the doctrine of the Holy Spirit.

The hadiths are too much - how to eat, how to sleep, how to wash, how to pray, how to go to the bathroom, how to wipe your self. The list of “how to” hadiths and sunna’s are way to long of a list.

and last, the most important issue…

The koran denies the divine and eternal Sonship of Jesus Christ.

And oh yeah, any religion that tells me I can’t have a dog or dogs is not a religion for me.

I’m sure there is other points to be added, but that’s it for now.

 

[sedonaman]

Chapter 8:12 and most of it refers to the Battle of Badr which mohamad led against the people of the land.

How about that! A Muslim took his own verse out of context.

 

[planten]

Reply to parts of extra lengthy post of jakasaki’s supposed objections. :
Re: Why do you hate Islam?

The koran differs widely from the Bible on such persons as Adam, Noah, Lot, Abraham, Ishmael and Isaac, and Moses, Jesus, Mother Mary.

Yes, there are minor differences and major too.

The koran denies the actual and physical crucifixion of Jesus Christ.

**Yes, very important. The quran does not deny that Jesus was put on the Cross. It only denies Crucifixion, meaning the death on the cross. If a person does not die on the cross then the act of Crucifixion is not complete.
Please remember that crucifixion does not mean putting up some one on the cross. It means death on the cross. So Quran denies that Jesus died on the Cross. It states that when brought down from the cross he was alive. he had only fainted and appeared to be dead.

The Quran protects Jesus from being a cursed person. BibleOT said that any one who dies on the cross is a cursed person. Jews wante dto kill Jesus on the cross to prove that was not from God. that he was cursed. Church has agreed to the claim of the Jews. But Quran has denied that Jesus died on the Cross. **.

The koran grants “special” marriage privileges only to mohamad . 4 wives for the rest of the followers of islam, but mohamad can have as many as he wants.

There are no rules for marraige for the christians. So they may not question the prophet on that matter. jesus was a man and not married?? Why?? And King Soloman, the ancestor of Jesus had about 300 wiives and 1000 concubines. Why?? Muhammad had only wives and they were not more than 11.

The koran grants mohamad twenty percent from raids, wars, and conquests.

This is false. There were no raids on innocent people. The christians picked up fight with the Ptophet and they were defeated… So every one knows what happens after the war. Your objection is useless, un-natural, illogical.

The koran says that mohamad had little or no authority over some evil jinn who came into his presence. Jesus fought satans temptations - mohamad could not.

Satan never came near Muhammad. But it is a sad story that according to bibleNT Satan tried to tempt Jesus. That is bad. We Muslims do not believe that Satan ever came near Jesus or his mother mary. So who is better?. the Catholic or the Muslim.?

The koran allows mature men to marry and have sex with prepubescent girls = mohamad 50 & little Aishia at 6, but yes he waited until she was 9 …

This is a LIE. Nowwhere in the Quran is stated that men can marry very young girls….

The koran orders the mutilation of male and female thieves.

What do you want to do about the thieves?? In those days there were no jails. You want to love and reward the thieves??

The koran endorses slavery, and mohamad himself traded in slaves and owned many.

Simple reply. IT IS A LIE. Every one was trading in slaves in those days, the christians too were doing it.

The koran orders sexual sinners to be whipped.

Yes, we can see the christian free sex society. Horrible. That is because there is no punishment for the adulterers in church system.

The hadith commands that adulterers should be stoned to death.

Yes, some mistake. It is definitely some cooked Hadith. There is no stoning to death of the adulterers in Quran. That is a punishment in the Jewish law and I believe that to be good law which the christians have discarded. But there is no stoning in Quran and the punishment is 100 lashes only in public after due process of the law.

.

 

[HickmanJosh]

((The koran denies the divine and eternal Sonship of Jesus Christ.))

Yeah? we denie Mohamed was a messenger from God.
HickmanJosh

 

[HickmanJosh]

((That is a punishment in the Jewish law and I believe that to be good law which the christians have discarded))

We did not discard it, Jesus did, there is a story in the NT where Jesus saves a woman from being stoned, he said “he who has no sin can throw the first stone” or something to that effect.

((Yes, we can see the christian free sex society. Horrible. That is because there is no punishment for the adulterers in church system.))

I should like to note that when i was at a catholic school we took a class on chastity until marriage, the free sex society is not that of the church but of mindless hypes and a disgusting culture. Adultery is a mortal sin and is very hard to forgive but once it is forgiven we cannot punish anyone for it, until it is forgiven the sinner cannot receive The Eucharist which, trust me is a big deal.

HickmanJosh

 

[GraceDK]

Hate is a strong word - I don’t care for it. Here is my partial list.

The koran differs widely from the Bible on such persons as Adam, Noah, Lot, Abraham, Ishmael and Isaac, and Moses, Jesus, Mother Mary.

The koran denies the actual and physical crucifixion of Jesus Christ.

The koran grants “special” marriage privileges only to mohamad . 4 wives for the rest of the followers of islam, but mohamad can have as many as he wants.

The koran allows a muslim to be polygamous with up to four wives, but mohamad can have many more, even young Aishia at the age of 6 while he was in his 50’s.

The koran grants mohamad twenty percent from raids, wars, and conquests.

The koran permits husbands to hit their wives even if the husbands

The koran says that mohamad had little or no authority over some evil jinn who came into his presence. Jesus fought satans temptations - mohamad could not.

The koran allows mature men to marry and have sex with prepubescent girls = mohamad 50 & little Aishia at 6, but yes he waited until she was 9 …

The koran orders the mutilation of male and female thieves.

The koran endorses slavery, and mohamad himself traded in slaves and owned many.

The koran says that slave-girls are sexual property for their male owners.

The koran orders torture crucifixion and mutilation.

The koran orders sexual sinners to be whipped.

The hadith commands that adulterers should be stoned to death.

The hadith commands that homosexuals should be executed.

The koran says that a woman’s testimony counts half of a man’s testimony because of her “forgetfulness.”

The koran allows an injured plaintiff to exact legal revenge—physical eye for physical eye, literally.

The koran orders death for individual critics and opponents of mohamad.

The koran celebrates mohamad slaughter and enslavement of a thriving Jewish tribe Qurayza and his confiscation of their property.

The koran orders warfare on Christians and Jews around the time of mohamads first crusade

The koran orders warfare and death for polytheists who refuse to convert.

The koran confuses the doctrine of the Holy Spirit.

The hadiths are too much - how to eat, how to sleep, how to wash, how to pray, how to go to the bathroom, how to wipe your self. The list of “how to” hadiths and sunna’s are way to long of a list.

and last, the most important issue…

The koran denies the divine and eternal Sonship of Jesus Christ.

And oh yeah, any religion that tells me I can’t have a dog or dogs is not a religion for me.

I’m sure there is other points to be added, but that’s it for now.

That about sums it up for me too (except for the dog-part. I am scared of dogs). Excellent post

 

[GraceDK]

Well I read the Quran and I bought the 100 most influential to read on Muhammed (pbuh) and I researched a bit on islam. Then I told my dad that I wanted to become a muslim and he took me to a mosque where i bore witness that there is only one God and Muhammed is his messenger.

wasalam

How do you feel about the fact that Muhammad raped a Jewish woman whose husband and father he killed that same day? How do you feel about the fact that Muhammad had sex with a 9 year old girl. A custom which, because of the sunna of your prophet, still is carried out in todays islamic countries?
How do you feel about the fact that Muhammad said that apostates should be killed? Do you reject human rights which include religious freedom?
Islam says women are deficient and forgetful. How do you feel about that?
Do you have something against girls/women?
If I were you mother I would be sad indeed that you have chosen to follow the teaching of a man, who by todays concepts, we call a phedofile. I weep that people will follow someone like this and thus make themselves guilty of his crimes too :nope:

Since you are young and don’t realise what you have done I hope you will consider that Islam is a political ideology and not just a religion. It wants to dominate even people who dont angree with it…
Please please listen to a few minutes about the reality of living under sharia law:
youtube.com/watch?v=ir_JNPn_GNM&feature=fvsr
youtube.com/watch?v=AwgZvylvJMw

I read about a non-muslim who had his hand cut off for theft in Egypt not to mention the rain of fatwas and death-threats because Islam does not allow religious criticism. Even HAMAS said it wants to conquer ROME and a shiite leader said the islamic world is only waiting to have nuclear weapons. They will not hesitate to use it Like any totalitarian regime Islam/Muhammedanism wants to silence its opponents. Violence is sanctioned in the Koran whereas Jesus said: “Love your enemies, pray for those who persecute you, bless, do not curse… bless, if you only love those who love you then you are no better than the heathens. Give, without expecting anything back”.
Communism and nazism and various cults desired a “clean society” in this world. It always went horribly bad when people wanted to make heaven on earth and clear out the “unclean”…

Please,… keep asking and seeking. Don’t be afraid to ask God truly; what is TRUTH. Is Jesus indeed Your Son?

ZAKI. Your true human dignity is in Jesus Christ.

 

[bobzills]

Reply There are no rules for marraige for the christians. So they may not question the prophet on that matter. jesus was a man and not married?? Why?? And King Soloman, the ancestor of Jesus had about 300 wiives and 1000 concubines. Why?? Muhammad had only wives and they were not more than 11…

I had a question as to why the prophet M (pbuh) had eleven wives, and some of them were extremely young, were they not?

 

[sedonaman]

**
…
Please remember that crucifixion does not mean putting up some one on the cross. It means death on the cross. **

Prove what you are saying here. Just because you say it doesn’t make it true. What authority defines crucifixion this way?

**
So Quran denies that Jesus died on the Cross. It states that when brought down from the cross he was alive. he had only fainted and appeared to be dead.
**

Christians do not accept the authority of the Qur’an. You’re wasting your time.

**
The Quran protects Jesus from being a cursed person. BibleOT said that any one who dies on the cross is a cursed person…
**.

Where does it say that?

**There are no rules for marraige for the christians. So they may not question the prophet on that matter…
**.

Excuse me. That is a lie [to use your own words].You don’t know what you are talking about. You think all who are not Muslim are Christians by default.

**This is false. There were no raids on innocent people. …
**.

That’s right ! Everyone who is not a Muslim is guilty by definition. To wit:

“It was written in the Koran, that all nations were sinners who should not have acknowledged their [Muslims’] authority, that it was their [Muslims’] right and duty to make war upon whoever they could find and to make slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Muslim who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise.” – Tripoli’s London ambassador’s response to Thomas Jefferson, March 1785.

And you talk of the “useless, un-natural, illogical”?

Satan never came near Muhammad. But it is a sad story that according to bibleNT Satan tried to tempt Jesus. That is bad. We Muslims do not believe that Satan ever came near Jesus or his mother mary. So who is better?. the Catholic or the Muslim.?

You can believe what you want. As samaan pointed out to you, that doesn’t make it true.

What do you want to do about the thieves?? In those days there were no jails. You want to love and reward the thieves??

There were three types of prisons in antiquity: one, for people who were depraved …; another type was for debtors …; and the third was for degenerates and criminals. – Palladio, Tavenor, and Schofield, The Four Books on Architecture, p 193.

Simple reply. IT IS A LIE. Every one was trading in slaves in those days, the christians too were doing it.

First you say it is a lie, then you say everyone was trading in slaves in those days. Well, Muslims were part of “everyone” so you are like the Qur’an; you contradict yourself. Your statement, like all of yours, is therefore ridiculous. Even if Muslim nations were not engaging in slavery in those days, how do you explain what they are doing today:

Muslim countries in the Middle East and north-central Africa lead the world in human trafficking, according to a new U.S. State Department report [of 2009]. Of the 17 countries that were given the “Tier 3” listing reserved for the worst offenders, nine were Muslim countries or countries with a large Muslim population from these two regions. Tier 3 countries are defined as those “whose governments do not fully comply with the minimum standards" of the Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008 and "are not making significant efforts to do so.”

The Middle Eastern countries with Tier 3 status are Iran, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and Syria. The north-central African countries are Mauritania, Chad, Sudan, Niger and Eritrea, all of which have very large Muslim populations.

Algeria, Libya, Tunisia, Egypt, Iraq, Yemen, Bahrain, Qatar, the UAE and Lebanon are on the Tier 2 Watchlist – one step above Tier 3.

Did Muslim countries go from free ones to slave ones down through the centuries?

Yes, some mistake. It is definitely some cooked Hadith. There is no stoning to death of the adulterers in Quran. That is a punishment in the Jewish law and I believe that to be good law which the christians have discarded. But there is no stoning in Quran and the punishment is 100 lashes only in public after due process of the law.

Sorta like the “cooked-up” samaan?

 

[Agabriel]

Assalam,

8:12 Remember thy lord inspired the angels (with the message): I am with you; give firmness to the believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the disbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their fingertips off them.
I see no problem with idolatry ceasing and God’s religion reigning supreme I dont have much problem with the Quranic verses
Mohammed said, " No Muslim should be killed for killing a Kafir" (infidel). Vol. 9:50 —this one I have a problem with because murder by anybody TO anybody results to death.

Well I read the Quran and I bought the 100 most influential to read on Muhammed and I researched a bit on islam. Then I told my dad that I wanted to become a muslim and he took me to a mosque where i bore witness that there is only one God and Muhammed is his messenger.

wasalam

2 Corinthians 11 has Paul telling us that Satan would indeed trick many. He would come disguised as another angel, deceive man through a false prophet. And the messenger will be boastful, yet speak eloquently; he will be deceitful, yet require obedience. He will come with a new message, a new Gospel (Quran).

The Quran is a change of the message of the Bible. Muhammed said it was ok for his followers to deceive others in war, and since Muslims are in a constant state of war in those lands (dar al harb) not under Islamic rule… well, you can figure out the rest.

I couldn’t figure out, at first, why Muslims are so bothered by Paul. Now I know. It seems Paul figured it out a long time ago and tried to warn us.

The more I study Islam the more I am drawn to the Bible and am in awe of it, and the more ‘turned off’ I become with what is in the Quran.

 

[bobzills]

Muhammed said it was ok for his followers to deceive others in war, .

Isn’t this what the Americans believe also?

 

[swplan76]

Assalam,

8:12 Remember thy lord inspired the angels (with the message): I am with you; give firmness to the believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the disbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their fingertips off them.
I see no problem with idolatry ceasing and God’s religion reigning supreme I dont have much problem with the Quranic verses
Mohammed said, " No Muslim should be killed for killing a Kafir" (infidel). Vol. 9:50 —this one I have a problem with because murder by anybody TO anybody results to death.

Well I read the Quran and I bought the 100 most influential to read on Muhammed (pbuh) and I researched a bit on islam. Then I told my dad that I wanted to become a muslim and he took me to a mosque where i bore witness that there is only one God and Muhammed is his messenger.

wasalam

Hey Zaki,

   What is it that draws you to the Qur'an, Muhammad and Islam?  As you were studying the Qur'an, what was it that struck you, that made you want to commit to Islam?

  I tried to figure out how to send this in private mail, but I can't for some reason - might be something wrong with my browser.

   Are you saying that part of the reason you became a Muslim was because your father is a Muslim?

    I study all kinds of religions.  Some of the best teaching I come across is on this site:

marshill.org/teaching/

   You can download MP3s.  I usually go for the ones from Rob Bell first.

   One thing I have noticed with many Muslims is that it tends not to be a religion that encourages asking hard questions.  It tends not to provide in-depth logic or understanding in order to make a commitment.  Christianity is not always this way, but **most **often people are required to really understand things before they make a commitment.  I want to encourage you to keep studying both religions.  See what God puts in front of you to study and see what makes sense to you.  Pray a lot.  Don't pray scripted practiced prayers, but attempt to pray from your heart.  As you read the Qur'an, pray, ask God to reveal Himself to you.  As you read the Bible, pray, ask God to speak to you.  As you go to Mosque, pray.  If you listen to the sermons I've directed you to on the site above, pray.  Ask God simple questions about what is truly on your mind.

   Don't believe like me, or your Mom, or your Dad.  Believe what God leads you to.  May your faith be your own based on what God leads you into.

    The passage cited in your post above promotes peace.  It shows us the way that peace is achieved through Islam.  Brutality and violence, any means possible so that peace can be achieved.  Imagine if some people decided that your mother was an obstacle to peace because she is a Christian, so they cut off her finger tips and then beheaded her.  Would you feel peace?  They have gotten rid of another filthy Christian, so they are happy, but are you?  Imagine a 5 year old child of the people who murdered your mother was watching it all happen.  How would that child respond?  What would it do to that child watching your mother be tortured, by having her fingertips cut off and then being beheaded.  That child would be emotionally and spiritually damaged.  That child might never have real peace.  Peace is not achieve through Islam... Now that is my opinion - that's just me.

I believe that the peace that Jesus came to bring blesses everyone it touches. It is supposed to be light upon darkness. It is supposed to help everyone be free of blindness. It doesn’t happen through violence and torture. Violence and torture just brings more blindness, sorrow, misery, hurt and pain. Jesus provides a way out of that kind of existence.

But don’t believe like me… May your faith be your own based on what God leads you into.

Be Blessed!

SW

 

[Agabriel]

Isn’t this what the Americans believe also?

I don’t know if I fully understand the question. Are you comparing Americans to a religion? Americans are made up of Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, atheists, pagans, and Muslims.

And if you are saying that Americans, on the whole, are deceptive, I don’t agree with you on that one. We, on a whole, try to raise our children to not lie. There will be individuals who do lie, but they are going against the basic teachings - not following them. If you are talking about spys then, say so. If you want to compare a government spy to Muslims, then I think you will have to start a different thread since that is really off topic.

You will have to tell me where in the Constitution (since you are trying to compare America to Islam) it says to deceive others as it does in the Quran.

Please post all references if you want to compare our Constitution to their Islamic texts that tell us Americans to deceive others.

here are some about deception in Islam: the Quran and elsewhere.

intentionally deceiving us to know the Quran: 6:25 6:110 17:45-76

Qur’an 9:3 “Allah and His Messenger dissolve obligations.”

Qur’an 66:2 “Allah has already sanctioned for you the dissolution of your vows.”

Qur’an 4:142 “Surely the hypocrites strive to deceive Allah. He shall retaliate by deceiving them.” (the hypocrites are Muslims who do not want to fight or give to Muslim charities in support of their Jihadists who do fight)
*This one is a good one because it tells us that Allah just creates people so he can lie to them and torture them:*Qur’an 5:41 “Whomever Allah wants to deceive you cannot help. Allah does not want them to know the truth because he intends to disgrace them and then torture them.”

Qur’an 40:32 “O my People! I fear a Day when there will be mutual wailing. No one shall defend you against Allah. Any whom Allah causes to err, there is no guide. That is how Allah leads the skeptic astray.”

Qur’an 13:27 “Say, ‘God leads whosoever He wills astray.’”

From the hadith and sirah:

Ishaq:365 and Tabari VII:94 “Muhammad bin Maslamah said, ‘O Messenger, we shall have to tell lies.’ ‘Say what you like,’ Muhammad replied. ‘You are absolved, free to say whatever you must.’”
Bukhari:V5B59N369 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘Who is willing to kill Ka’b bin Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?’ Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslamah got up saying, ‘O Allah’s Apostle! Would you like me to kill him?’ The Prophet said, ‘Yes,’ Maslamah said, ‘Then allow me to say false things in order to deceive him.’ The Prophet said, ‘You may say such things.’”

Ishaq:442 “By Muhammad’s order we beguiled them.”

Tabari VIII:23 “The Messenger and his Companions continued in the fear and distress that Allah has described in the Qur’an. Then Nu’aym came to the Prophet. 'I ‘ve become a Muslim, but my tribe does not know of my Islam; so command me whatever you will.’ Muhammad said, ‘Make them abandon each other if you can so that they will leave us; for war is deception.’”

taqiyya/kithman

 

[sedonaman]

Isn’t this what the Americans believe also?

Are you talking Clauswitzian war, or what?

 

[bobzills]

Are you talking Clauswitzian war, or what?

During war, don’t Americans ever float false signals about where their future incursions will be?

 

[sedonaman]

During war, don’t Americans ever float false signals about where their future incursions will be?

You’re assuming that “war” as you understand it is the same as what the Muslims mean. If I’ve learned anything about Islam, it’s that you cannot necessarily use Western understandings of even common terms and ideas interchangeably with Muslims’, hence my signature motto.

 

[redhen]

Why do you hate Islam?
Is it because Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world?

I don’t hate Islam, I hate it’s continued 1400 year assault on Western civilization.
gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/

Do you deeply believe in the logic of Islam and you can’t say it?
Did you visit Islamic sites or read Koran to judge it?
Judging can’t be done by quick overview but needs reading and comparing.

I don’t need to read Mein Kampf or Das Kapital to realize that Nazism and Communism are also threats to Western civilization.

Every ethnic group is entitled to it’s own homeland, so the refrain goes, Palestine for the Palestinians, Israel for the Jews. I submit that native Europeans are also entitled to their own homeland.

youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Finsidecatholic.com%2FJoomla%2Findex.php%3Foption%3Dcom_content%26task%3Dview%26id%3D1154%26Itemid%3D10&feature=player_embedded

 

[swplan76]

…

here are some about deception in Islam: the Quran and elsewhere.

intentionally deceiving us to know the Quran: 6:25 6:110 17:45-76

Qur’an 9:3 “Allah and His Messenger dissolve obligations.”

Qur’an 66:2 “Allah has already sanctioned for you the dissolution of your vows.”

Qur’an 4:142 “Surely the hypocrites strive to deceive Allah. He shall retaliate by deceiving them.” (the hypocrites are Muslims who do not want to fight or give to Muslim charities in support of their Jihadists who do fight)
*This one is a good one because it tells us that Allah just creates people so he can lie to them and torture them:*Qur’an 5:41 “Whomever Allah wants to deceive you cannot help. Allah does not want them to know the truth because he intends to disgrace them and then torture them.”

Qur’an 40:32 “O my People! I fear a Day when there will be mutual wailing. No one shall defend you against Allah. Any whom Allah causes to err, there is no guide. That is how Allah leads the skeptic astray.”

Qur’an 13:27 “Say, ‘God leads whosoever He wills astray.’”

From the hadith and sirah:

Ishaq:365 and Tabari VII:94 “Muhammad bin Maslamah said, ‘O Messenger, we shall have to tell lies.’ ‘Say what you like,’ Muhammad replied. ‘You are absolved, free to say whatever you must.’”
Bukhari:V5B59N369 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘Who is willing to kill Ka’b bin Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?’ Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslamah got up saying, ‘O Allah’s Apostle! Would you like me to kill him?’ The Prophet said, ‘Yes,’ Maslamah said, ‘Then allow me to say false things in order to deceive him.’ The Prophet said, ‘You may say such things.’”

Ishaq:442 “By Muhammad’s order we beguiled them.”

Tabari VIII:23 “The Messenger and his Companions continued in the fear and distress that Allah has described in the Qur’an. Then Nu’aym came to the Prophet. 'I ‘ve become a Muslim, but my tribe does not know of my Islam; so command me whatever you will.’ Muhammad said, ‘Make them abandon each other if you can so that they will leave us; for war is deception.’”

This is another side of dealing with Islam and some Muslims: according to the Qur’an and the Hadiths, deception that leads to victory for Islam is justified. It is fully allowable for Muslims to lie, deceive or ambush people as long as it benefits Islam.

This has implications for terrorism…

It also has implications for the kind of discussion we are having here. If things don’t go well for Muslims in this conversation, they can lie to us and it is fully allowable just so that Islam is benefited. Someone may come to a Muslim looking for answers to questions and they may be lied to and converted only later to find out that they were deceived so that Islam might benefit - and the Qur’an and Hadiths support it.

Jihad means struggle. Its all in the name of the struggle. Its a war of the mind - its a war of the flesh. Peace by any means. If I have to torture and kill you in the name of Allah so there can be peace, then by all means… what?!!?

It is so obvious ridiculous…

If I am a Muslim and I were the only one and I have to exterminate all of you in the name of Allah, so that His religion can be practiced, then there will be peace.

How foolish are people?

If course the time isn’t now, not yet:
"(Muslims in America) Their agenda is as old as Islam.
First, when weak, accommodate. Pretend to be peace-loving citizens
and a force for good. Second, as Islam grows, begin to agitate, demand
rights. Third, intimidate anyone or anything that dares to speak ill of Islam.
At present the world media cowers in fear of insulting Islam. The reprisals
are deadly. Fourth, when sufficiently strong, call for JIHAD and seek to subjugate.
Where Islam rules (Sharia law) all non-Muslims are dhimmis, second
class citizens who live in abject fear and pay heavy taxes."

the quote above presents the way in which Islam deceives in order to work its way into societies. This is what Islam has historically done and what it is doing in the world today.

It oppresses. God liberates us and leads us to become liberators through the means of love, and if people don’t want to accept Jesus, they don’t have to have Him, we can live in peace with people who don’t believe what we believe, but this is not the goal of Islam. It all goes back to the angel in the cave - it wasn’t Gabriel, it was Satan (or it was made up by Muhammad and then influenced by Satan along the way - Muhammad may have just thought he was running a religion scam, but Satan was in there laughing as Muhammad led the blood bath and every other evil thing that came along with it (rape, slavery, etc…)).