Why do you hate Islam?

[Agabriel]

lid2;,
The American genocide and enslavement of African people likewise has been insufficiently recognized,

I am not American, but I have seen dozens of AMERICAN movies about the tragic slavery that took place in America some centuries ago.
If you want to talk about genocide please preach to your muslim brothers; so many deny the Holocaust and in Turkey you have a whole Muslim nation that denies the genocide of the armenian Christians in 1919.

Your knowledge, or lack thereof, of history is a laugh riot, Jazzy. Everyone who disputes with me slavery during Islam looses in the end . Moslems bought slaves to free them.

Actually slavery is allowed in Islam and its still practiced many places in the Muslim world. Wipe your own nose first…

**
Slaves that were bought by moslems were not treated as slaves but members of the family. Why do you think many African Americans are joining Islam now our days…**

You live in denial. Africa is fastly becoming a Christian continent.

**How many American Moslems do you know in the USA ? They are not oppressed in the USA ? Well you can read Amnesty International Report let see. **

Yes, they are not opressed in the US because of a constitution based on freedom. As for Amnesty Int. they have sold their soul to left-wing agendas long time ago. No one takes Amnesty Intl. very seriously in Europe anymore…

. There is no term in Islam which means “holy war” and the true meaning of jihad is to strive/make effort in the way of Allah. Thus striving in the way of Allah can be both peaceful and physical.

You speak against your own knowlege: there are two kinds of jihad ac. to Islam: the small and the big one. you have defined the big one… the striving of the soul. But you forget the small one… or you dont know about your own religion?

**The religion did not spread by the sword. There were military confrontations between the Muslim state and the existing world powers of Rome and Persia. However, the areas conquered were put under Muslim administration and the populations were free to maintain their own beliefs. **

Continue to live in your dream fantasy… My question is only: Why are you here?

The largest Muslim country in the world today is Indonesia, having over 300 million citizens, never saw a Muslim soldier. Islam spread there and in Malaysia and Philippines by trade. That was also the case of Islam’s spread in West African countries like Nigeria, Ghana, Senegal, Chad and Niger. Also, Islam is the fastest growing religion in America today with anywhere between 500 and 1000 converts daily. This is taking place without any soldiers or even missionaries.

The spread of Islam takes place through child birth… demographics. This is a known fact. The spread of Christinanity takes place through inner conviction and sincere quest for truth. When it comes to Indonesia: Islam is not the statereligion in Indonesia which means its clergy cannot dominate over non-muslim people. However there is both islamic terrorism in Indonesia and on the Philippines just like so many other places… There is also the tragedy of Darfur… arab Muslims made a genocide not long ago. Maybe you choose to erase that from your collective memory, but true history does not forget…

Thanks Grace. Your posts are well stated and eloquent, far more than mine. I appreciate them.

 

[MDK]

Sam_777,

I was raised as a Christian, and I admit that there is a great deal of hatred and discrimination towards Islam I’ve seen and heard it, straight from the mouths of preachers and ‘christians’ I, myself, respect and admire Islam, for its perpetual struggle for justice and equal treatment.

I believe that many of the so called “Western Christians”, have an agenda to destroy and eradicate Islam. In the 50’s and 60’s, westeners targetted communism and regarded it as a threat to the western way of life~fallacy 50 years later, its the same, the only thing that changes is the target.

Now, westeners are trying to eradicate Islam, kuz its always stood in the way and been an economic/social/and religious burden for ‘christians’ Signs: surveillance of Muslims world wide, “War on Terror aka War on Islam”, and the blockade of Islamic movements inside American prisons…the list goes on

A balanced view, you do not possess, unfortunately. If you really understood Christianity, and you loved God, you would never leave for a heresy that Islam is.

In truth, there is no valid reason for Islam. God didn’t create it, but was created by a man who was not guided by God. Islam could never have been made, if Christianity were not in place already. Christianity made many things new. Islam was a movement of it’s time, a social movement that incorporated cultural things into a “religion.” In reference to mohammad, Islam is a “non prophet” institution.

Islam should not exist, because there is no valid reason for it. God only started two religions, and the first of these, Judaism had reached its end, and on the heels of Judaism we have the New and Everlasting Covenant in Christianity. God established this, and so people should not follow a heretic instead of God. Islam should be done away with, preferably by people waking up and following God instead of a murderer, marauder, rapist, and pillager, and liar the self described “prophet” mohammad was.

I have a great deal of respect and there is dignity in the humans who unfortunately adhere to this Christian heresy called Islam. I have no respect for Islam where it misleads and takes people away from the true, Triune God, three Divine Persons the Father, Son and Holy Spirit in one God. Islam is not completely wrong. God’s Church is right where Islam is right. More importantly, God’s Church is right where Islam is wrong.

 

[rpp]

The topic on this thread is based on a false premise and is inherently uncharitable. The OP accuses those who are Muslim of hate. He refuses to accept the fact that those who disagree with Islam do not, in fact hate it. He refuses to acknowledge that one of the main tenets of Islam is the conversion or death of all non-Muslims while Christianity teaches love for enemies.

My counter question to the OP is why to hate Christians? And if you claim not to hate Christians, prove it.

 

[John7]

Do I hate moohamadism? No…but I could care less about islam specially after reading 1/2 the koran and noticing that it was obviously written by someone with the acumen of a 5-YEAR OLD !!.

close that bottle, the jinn are going to get me

 

[SalomeBintullah]

If I would like to know whether a religion is true or false, I should not depend on my emotions, feelings, or traditions. Rather, I should depend on my reason and intellect.

I certainly don’t hate Islam. I believe that Catholic Christianity is the true religion, thus I hold Islam to be a false religion. Catholics hold that truths can be found in all religions, but only the Truth can be found in Catholicism. This is how I view Islam. And I certainly depend on my reason and intellect to determine that Islam is false. I’m passionately interested in history and archaeology, so those arguments always carry the most weight with me.

 

[GraceDK]

Yo JOHN7

What does the Hebrew writing mean???

 

[xixxvmcm85]

If I would like to know whether a religion is true or false, I should not depend on my emotions, feelings, or traditions. Rather, I should depend on my reason and intellect.

I completely agree with this statement, so let’s work from here.

I was raised in a religion which essentially praises emotion, and looks down on any kind of skepticism (that’s slowly starting to change thankfully). Once I critically studied the history of my faith (including the non-sugar coated, secular history of it) I came to the realization that the “faith of my fathers” wasn’t objectively correct.

Once I decided to go in pursuit of the “true” religion, I promised myself that I wouldn’t succumb to what I felt inside as it became readily apparent to me that the finessing of emotions is what my former faith relied on in order to keep their adherents in check.

Now obviously, I had to start with a very basic axiom which I wouldn’t be able to “prove”. I would have to take it on faith alone. This axiom, I decided was monotheism. I have always been certain that there is only one God, yet I have nothing but my emotion to validate it.

From this basic axiom, I delve into the Old Testament and precept by precept, built up what it is I was actively searching for in a religion.

Islam, being one of the three great monotheistic religions of the world (which claims descent from Judaism) I indeed investigated. It didn’t take long for me to reject it outright though, for the same reason I rejected my original religion!!!

Just like my former religion, Islam is centered around only one person, for which there is absolutely no corroboration to his story. Islam, just like the Mormonism of my upbringing, hinges on the testimony of only one man. Nobody saw the angel Mohamed and Joseph Smith allege to have seen. Nobody witnesses the alleged “translation” or “recitation” of Joseph Smith and Mohamed respectively, and it became readily apparent that these two “prophets” made up revelations (once again, for which there is absolutely no corroboration) which are obviously meant for their own personal gain.

Contrast that with Christianity: Multitudes witnessed Jesus miracles (he actually walked the walked). Throughout the apostolic age, there were 12 witnesses of the risen Christ at any given time. The different parts of the Christian Bible were written by different people or groups of people lending even more corroboration.

Essentially, religions like Mormonism and Islam ask us to forgo our reason by calling the many witnesses of Jesus liars, while a single man is telling the"truth" at the exclusion of all others. Historically speaking, that’s very unlikely! Let’s use a hypothetical situation to illustrate this:

Let’s say you weren’t able to attend a party your friend was throwing. The next day you ask a group of your friends what had happened there. A couple dozen tell you one thing, and one person tells you something completely different. Who is it that you are most likely to believe, a group of corroborating witnesses, or your lone renegade?

Not to mention, this whole concept of mass apostasy is ridiculous, leaving God to seem like he is incapable (or unwilling) to keep his truth unchanged. This goes for any religious group which claims that the “truth” was lost, and God needed to restore it through a sole person. Moreover, this is completely unfalsifiable. Whenever there is a conflict between an older work of scripture or tradition and the “new and improved” scripture or tradition, the adherents of such a religion simply say “Oh, that’s obviously one of the parts that was corrupted. In such a case, you need to trust our one-man prophet”. Sorry, but this is ludicrous, and I don’t believe our Creator would endow us with reason simply for us to forgo it. Furthermore, which “modern prophet” are we to believe has the “restored truth”? Do you realize that any means of defense you use for your prophet Mohammed, the Mormons use to defend Joseph Smith, and the SDAs use to defend Ellen White? Beliefs in “mass apostasy” also beg the question: "If God allowed a great apostasy to happen before, who’s to say the modern “restored religion” cannot apostatize? For this very reason, religions which advocate a great apostasy tend to lead to the creation of even newer religions! For example: Even though the history of Mormonism only goes back some 200 years, there are literally hundreds of offshoots all claiming to have the “true prophet” while also claiming that all other branches are “in apostasy”.

Might I ask you, why should I follow Islam instead of … say… the Baha’i Faith, which also claims to be a form of revised, non-apostatized Islam?

 

[John7]

Yo JOHN7

What does the Hebrew writing mean???

its from Psalms 62:4
“They only consult to cast him down from his excellency”

this is what I see happening to Jesus,
(Jesus’ name is to the left of the ellipsis)

 

[Agabriel]

I completely agree with this statement, so let’s work from here.

I was raised in a religion which essentially praises emotion, and looks down on any kind of skepticism (that’s slowly starting to change thankfully). Once I critically studied the history of my faith (including the non-sugar coated, secular history of it) I came to the realization that the “faith of my fathers” wasn’t objectively correct.

Once I decided to go in pursuit of the “true” religion, I promised myself that I wouldn’t succumb to what I felt inside as it became readily apparent to me that the finessing of emotions is what my former faith relied on in order to keep their adherents in check.

Now obviously, I had to start with a very basic axiom which I wouldn’t be able to “prove”. I would have to take it on faith alone. This axiom, I decided was monotheism. I have always been certain that there is only one God, yet I have nothing but my emotion to validate it.

From this basic axiom, I delve into the Old Testament and precept by precept, built up what it is I was actively searching for in a religion.

Islam, being one of the three great monotheistic religions of the world (which claims descent from Judaism) I indeed investigated. It didn’t take long for me to reject it outright though, for the same reason I rejected my original religion!!!

Just like my former religion, Islam is centered around only one person, for which there is absolutely no corroboration to his story. Islam, just like the Mormonism of my upbringing, hinges on the testimony of only one man. Nobody saw the angel Mohamed and Joseph Smith allege to have seen. Nobody witnesses the alleged “translation” or “recitation” of Joseph Smith and Mohamed respectively, and it became readily apparent that these two “prophets” made up revelations (once again, for which there is absolutely no corroboration) which are obviously meant for their own personal gain.

Contrast that with Christianity: Multitudes witnessed Jesus miracles (he actually walked the walked). Throughout the apostolic age, there were 12 witnesses of the risen Christ at any given time. The different parts of the Christian Bible were written by different people or groups of people lending even more corroboration.

Essentially, religions like Mormonism and Islam ask us to forgo our reason by calling the many witnesses of Jesus liars, while a single man is telling the"truth" at the exclusion of all others. Historically speaking, that’s very unlikely! Let’s use a hypothetical situation to illustrate this:

Let’s say you weren’t able to attend a party your friend was throwing. The next day you ask a group of your friends what had happened there. A couple dozen tell you one thing, and one person tells you something completely different. Who is it that you are most likely to believe, a group of corroborating witnesses, or your lone renegade?

Not to mention, this whole concept of mass apostasy is ridiculous, leaving God to seem like he is incapable (or unwilling) to keep his truth unchanged. This goes for any religious group which claims that the “truth” was lost, and God needed to restore it through a sole person. Moreover, this is completely unfalsifiable. Whenever there is a conflict between an older work of scripture or tradition and the “new and improved” scripture or tradition, the adherents of such a religion simply say “Oh, that’s obviously one of the parts that was corrupted. In such a case, you need to trust our one-man prophet”. Sorry, but this is ludicrous, and I don’t believe our Creator would endow us with reason simply for us to forgo it. Furthermore, which “modern prophet” are we to believe has the “restored truth”? Do you realize that any means of defense you use for your prophet Mohammed, the Mormons use to defend Joseph Smith, and the SDAs use to defend Ellen White? Beliefs in “mass apostasy” also beg the question: "If God allowed a great apostasy to happen before, who’s to say the modern “restored religion” cannot apostatize? For this very reason, religions which advocate a great apostasy tend to lead to the creation of even newer religions! For example: Even though the history of Mormonism only goes back some 200 years, there are literally hundreds of offshoots all claiming to have the “true prophet” while also claiming that all other branches are “in apostasy”.

Might I ask you, why should I follow Islam instead of … say… the Baha’i Faith, which also claims to be a form of revised, non-apostatized Islam?

You made some very good points. Interesting post.

 

[sedonaman]

If I would like to know whether a religion is true or false, I should not depend on my emotions, feelings, or traditions. Rather, I should depend on my reason and intellect.

Then consider this analysis of Islam which covers these areas:

Evidentiary Religions – Islam Introduction
Koran and Judeo-Christian Apostles
Koran and Judeo-Christian Scriptures
Koran Contradicts Judeo-Christianity (Part 1)
Koran Contradicts Judeo-Christianity (Part 2)
Koran Contradicts Judeo-Christianity (Part 3)
Koran Contradicts Judeo-Christianity (Part 4)
Another Gospel and Explaining the Success of Islam (Part 1)
Explaining the Success of Islam (Part 2)
Explaining the Success of Islam (Part 3)
Islam Conclusions

 

[sedonaman]

Toribus, by your own words you have given the proof of your hatred for islam.

Hey! Waitaminnit. Wait just one cotton-pickin’ minnit. The topic question asks, “Why do you hate Islam?” Toribus just answered the question; that’s all. So what if he hates Islam?

I hope and I am sure you are not a catholic or follower of Jesus.

You’ve taken Jesus’ teaching out of context. He said, “Love God with your whole being, and love your neighbor as yourself.” He never said you had to love false religions.

 

[sedonaman]

Celebrated? I don’t think it was ever celebrated.

Regardless, what does this have to do with African slaves?

What does it have to do with the topic question? You are letting lid and planten change the subject into defending Christianity. One of the games Muslims like to play.

 

[adstrinity]

I believe that many of the so called “Western Christians”, have an agenda to destroy and eradicate Islam. In the 50’s and 60’s, westeners targetted communism and regarded it as a threat to the western way of life~fallacy 50 years later, its the same, the only thing that changes is the target.

Communism was then and is still now a threat.

This, of course, doesn’t show why Islam is false.

 

[dolphinlove]

ok, this thread is turning into one of those threads… i see.
im still waiting for the muslims on here to pull something new out of the hat, this has been done to death…

 

[Louie1983]

A Catholic worth his salt hates no-one, but you can’t automatically assume that someone hates islam if they 1) don’t follow it 2) speak their own faith and truth 3) believe that Islam is a false religion.

Unfortuntaely the one thing i have found with many Muslims is when you try to have a frank and honest discussion about religion with them they tend to get very fired very quickly and the discussion naturally turns into confrontation (of words).

 

[jakasaki]

QUOTE=lid2;5296847]Why do you hate Islam?
Is it because Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world?

Pumping out tons of babies who MUST be muslim means nothing. You should check out the apostates of islam - you know - the ones who are brave enough to leave islam because it’s false!

cnn.com/WORLD/9704/14/egypt.islam/
defenselink.mil/news/Oct2001/n10042001_200110043.html
themodernreligion.com/convert/am.htm

Do you deeply believe in the logic of Islam and you can’t say it?

Is there logic in islam, really, … perhaps I missed something… Maybe you can show us the “logic of islam”… with proof.

Did you visit Islamic sites or read Koran to judge it?

Indeed I have visisted islamic sites and have read the koran. And your point is what?

Judging can’t be done by quick overview but needs reading and comparing.

Indeed again, I have read deeply and not by “quick overview” and have compared the Bible to the koran. The koran is hogwash and it comes nowhere close to the Biblical Book.

Do you know Islam respects Jesus and Mary very much and Jewish call them illegitimate and whore?

Isa and Mary are NOT the Biblical Historical people written in the koran. And please quote where the Jews called them “illegitimare and whore”. I’d like to see.

We have all the resources to know and judge. Check the Internet, it’s free.

I’ve seen them all and read them all - well… just about… and it’s enough to make… well… I’ll stop right here…

~ deleted the rest ~

 

[dolphinlove]

jakasaki,
with all the popcorn you consume on this thread, your going to turn into popcorn

 

[Blessed_Karl]

Lid29…you amaze me.

1. You say Muslims bought slaves to free them.

This is a lie and you know it. You know as well as I do that slaves have been widely employed, until recently, in Islamic countries for 1400 years. Captured enemy soldiers and even the women and children of conquered areas that resisted could and were made slaves. The North African barbary states reintroduced MASSIVE piracy into the mediteranean from the 7th to the 19th century. They may have taken as many as MILLIONS of slaves! They did this…FOR MONEY!!!

You are either a liar or are very ignorant. Your smug sense of superiority because you are a Muslim is disgusting.

1. You say Islam never spread by the sword. Another lie.

Islam conquered much of Spain, North Africa, the entire middle east, parts of India and central Asia, Sicily and southern Italy…all in the first 100 years after the death of Muhammad! Later conquests included the Crimean Penninsula, most of the Balkans, Armenia, Georgia, etc…

Islam has been perhaps the most imperialistic religion ever!

1. You REFUSE to mention how non-muslims are second class citizens in an Islamic country!!! The Jizya and other such measures insured that Christians were always kept down.
   

       I understand you probably will not respond to this. But at least think about what I am saying. Fact of the matter is that you just respond by blaming America. You and Planten say that Muslism are just defending themselves against Christian aggression.

Christian aggression? You mean like the following:

1. The aggressive Christians and Zoroastrians whose lands were conquered in the 7th and 8th centuries?
2. The aggressive Christians whose lands in the Balkans were invaded by the Turks?
3. The 1.5 million Christian imperialists who were murdered during the armenian genocide in Turkey?
4. the evil Christians who you attacked and enslaved by the millions?!

Etc…

Seriously…you just yell about the evils of America and ignore all criticism of your faith’s history.

 

[KingTheoden]

Hey gang, let’s try to do our best to spread the faith by showing we value charity most highly.

If I would like to know whether a religion is true or false, I should not depend on my emotions, feelings, or traditions. Rather, I should depend on my reason and intellect.

I do not hate those who are Islam. The problem with Islam is that there is nothing in its religion that is compatible with Christianity. It like Catholicsm are works oriented religions in which their follows try to make themselves acceptable to God through a system of human works.

Lid2, I can understand what you are thinking. You see what passes for the West today, how immodest, promiscuous, and selfish some can be. Then you see bombs lobbed into Muslim countries and an unequal foreign policy. So, I can understand that you can think that we hate you.

But true Catholic Christians do not. We love you, as we are commanded to by our lord Jesus Christ.

We truly believe that Islam is a mixture of somethings that are true, and somethings that are very untrue. Perhaps part of misunderstandings is that Islam does not have a central interpretive authority like we do; therefore, some Muslims will have no idea about some texts that other Muslims consider integral to the religion.

Don’t let the media tell you how we live. There is a culture clash within the West between the Secular Modernists and the Faithful. This is even taking place in the Church!

I am relatively new to the faith and have a lot of preparation left before I can do formal apologies for the Church, but there are a few things I would point out.

You have to understand our perspective as Christians: the heart and soul of our territory was taken away rapidly. Syria, Palestine, Egypt, Spain, and North Africa were thriving Christian territories. They all were conquered under the banner of Islam. We contrast this with the spread of Christianity in Europe which was accomplished with peaceful missionaries.

Our faith teaches us that we are God’s children; like any father, He will get upset when we do not show obedience, but we do remain parent-child. My understanding is that Islam has a decidedly slave-master relationship.

Our faith is the work of centuries contained in Scripture by chosen prophets and those chosen to live in Christ’s day. Mohammed, by contrast, assembled the Islam relgion by his own illumination. We have to ask ourselves if this makes sense.

I really invite you to take a deeper look at the Catholic Christian faith. Many people don’t know, it made significant inroads in Persia in the early years, but politics led to its persecution. There is so much that the Church offers to help you come ever closer with God.

There is every reason to assume you are a righteous person doing what you feel is right in order to live to please God. We’re not beating up on you or trying to put you down; we are convinced that the Church is the one true faith and we want more people like you to become a part of it.

 

[koranist]

Originally Posted by xixxvmcm85
I completely agree with this statement, so let’s work from here.

Now obviously, I had to start with a very basic axiom which I wouldn’t be able to “prove”. I would have to take it on faith alone. This axiom, I decided was monotheism. I have always been certain that there is only one God, yet I have nothing but my emotion to validate it.

From this basic axiom, I delve into the Old Testament and precept by precept, built up what it is I was actively searching for in a religion.

Islam, being one of the three great monotheistic religions of the world (which claims descent from Judaism) I indeed investigated. It didn’t take long for me to reject it outright though, for the same reason I rejected my original religion!!!

Just like my former religion, Islam is centered around only one person, for which there is absolutely no corroboration to his story. Islam, just like the Mormonism of my upbringing, hinges on the testimony of only one man. Nobody saw the angel Mohamed and Joseph Smith allege to have seen. Nobody witnesses the alleged “translation” or “recitation” of Joseph Smith and Mohamed respectively, and it became readily apparent that these two “prophets” made up revelations (once again, for which there is absolutely no corroboration) which are obviously meant for their own personal gain.

Contrast that with Christianity: Multitudes witnessed Jesus miracles (he actually walked the walked). Throughout the apostolic age, there were 12 witnesses of the risen Christ at any given time. The different parts of the Christian Bible were written by different people or groups of people lending even more corroboration.

Essentially, religions like Mormonism and Islam ask us to forgo our reason by calling the many witnesses of Jesus liars, while a single man is telling the"truth" at the exclusion of all others. Historically speaking, that’s very unlikely! Let’s use a hypothetical situation to illustrate this:

End quote

Interesting. But is it not the whole point of faith is there is no proof?

26.154 "Thou art no more than a mortal like us: then bring us a Sign, if thou tellest the truth!"

They say: "Why is not an angel sent down to him?" If We did send down an angel, the matter would be settled at once, and no respite would be granted them. Al-An’am, Verse 8

Al-An’am, Verse 37 They say: “Why is not a Sign sent down to him from his Lord?” Say: “Allah hath certainly power to send down a Sign: but most of them understand not.”

Al-An’am, Verse 111 Even if We did send unto them angels, and the dead did speak unto them, and We gathered together all things before their very eyes, they are not the ones to believe, unless it is in Allah’s Plan. But most of them ignore (the truth).

Yunus, Verse 20 They say: "Why is not a Sign sent down to him from his Lord?" Say: “The unseen is only for Allah (to know). Then wait ye: I too will wait with you.”

Hud, Verse 12 Perchance thou mayest (feel the inclination) to give up a part of what is revealed unto thee, and thy heart feeleth straitened lest they say, "Why is not a treasure sent down unto him, or why does not an angel come down with him?" But thou art there only to warn! It is Allah that arrangeth all affairs!.

Ar-Ra’d> Verse 38 We did send Messengers before thee, and appointed for them wives and children: **and it was never the part of a Messenger to bring a Sign except as Allah permitted (or commanded). **For each period is a Book (revealed).

Al-Israa> Verse 93 “Or thou have a house adorned with gold, or thou mount a ladder right into the skies. No, we shall not even believe in thy mounting until thou send down to us a book that we can read.” Say: “Glory to my Lord! am I aught but a man, a Messenger?”

Surah Al-Furqan> Verse 7-8

And they say: **"What sort of a Messenger is this, who eats foods, and walks through the streets? Why has not an angel been sent down to him to give admonition with him? "Or (why) has not a treasure been bestowed on him, or why has he (not) a garden for enjoyment? "**The wicked say: “Ye follow none other than a man bewitched.”

And yet we know many signs were shown to the people in the previous generations

20.133. They say: "Why does he not bring us a sign from his Lord?" Has not a Clear Sign come to them of all that was in the former Books of revelation?

5.110.Then will God say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother.** Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.**

26.30-35 (Moses) said: “Even if I showed you something clear (and) convincing?” Pharaoh) said: “Show it then, if thou tellest the truth!” So (Moses) threw his rod, and behold, it was a serpent, plain (for all to see)! And he drew out his hand, and behold, it was white to all beholders! (Pharaoh) said to the Chiefs around him: "This is indeed a sorcerer well- versed: “His plan is to get you out of your land by his sorcery; then what is it ye counsel?”

So it seems signs and even witnessing these signs has not done much. Maybe someone can bring examples from the Bible also. I don’t know it as much as the Koran although I plan on studying it more.