WHY do you [if you do?] think the RCC is not the One true Church founded by Christ?

[Sy_Noe]

OK:shrug:

So I’m to accept just any understanding of TRUTH?

GBY

Merry Christmas my friend!

Nope you do a great job accepting the understanding of truth as your faith defines and understands it according to its beliefs. And as far as I can tell, you are well versed in and have the Catholic faith nailed down to a tee. I’m not saying there is not ultimately 1 truth. But to believe we know with certainty what that is, I’m just saying takes at least some degree of a leap of faith. Peace.

And to you as well! Brightest blessings!

 

[punisherthunder]

At my job I get the same streamlined response from Prostants.

They tell me the RCC is not the One True Church because it’s the Whore of Babylon and pagan. That’s the single thought argument they always give me.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Well the Catholic Church is a communion of 23 Churches of which the RCC is one. So, the Catholic Church is the one true Church, while the RCC is one of the particular selfgoverning Churches within the Communion

 

[eamonnroma]

Well the Catholic Church is a communion of 23 Churches of which the RCC is one. So, the Catholic Church is the one true Church, while the RCC is one of the particular selfgoverning Churches within the Communion

Yes I agree to a degree. I do not agree with your number. There are also the Orthodox churches which are also part of the catholic church as we proclaim in the Nicene Creed. When we say, I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church’, we are stating that we believe that at least all canonical churches, are part of the catholic church.

 

[PJM]

Nope you do a great job accepting the understanding of truth as your faith defines and understands it according to its beliefs. And as far as I can tell, you are well versed in and have the Catholic faith nailed down to a tee. I’m not saying there is not ultimately 1 truth. But to believe we know with certainty what that is, I’m just saying takes at least some degree of a leap of faith. Peace.

And to you as well! Brightest blessings!

THANK you so very much!

Faith and its right understanding can only come through God the Holy Spirit, when in humility we turn to Him and seek His guidence:thumbsup:

May God Bless and guide you my friend!

Patrick

 

[PJM]

At my job I get the same streamlined response from Prostants.

They tell me the RCC is not the One True Church because it’s the Whore of Babylon and pagan. That’s the single thought argument they always give me.

OK:shrug:

And PLEASE share just how you respond to this charge [we can’t be of help without knowing]

GBY!

 

[PJM]

Well the Catholic Church is a communion of 23 Churches of which the RCC is one. So, the Catholic Church is the one true Church, while the RCC is one of the particular selfgoverning Churches within the Communion

AGREED

Yet all 23 share the ONE same set of FAITH beliefs.

GBY

 

[PJM]

Yes I agree to a degree. I do not agree with your number. There are also the Orthodox churches which are also part of the catholic church as we proclaim in the Nicene Creed. When we say, I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church’, we are stating that we believe that at least all canonical churches, are part of the catholic church.

opps,

The 23 number is technically correct.

The Orthodox you allude to, while BRETHREN, have chosen to separate themselves from ROME

Therefore there is a critical difference. Amen

GBY

 

[TOmNossor]

Dear friend in Christ;

If you hold to the position that the RCC is NOT the one true Chuch founded and desired by Christ, please explain why this is?

God Bless you

Patrick

I hold that the Catholic Church is not “the one true Church founded” by Christ.
There are numerous aspects in Catholic history that contribute to this view (including an argument used by a Catholic against the Eastern Orthodox on this thread), but that is not the foundation of why I do not hold that the Catholic Church is God’s one true Church.
I believe that God was involved in the “restoration” of His Church. So I embrace the Church of that restoration (as best I understand). So my position is not based upon things I perceive are lacking in Catholicism, but is based on the embracing of a Church I believe was founded/restored by God.
Charity, TOm

 

[Wandile]

Yes I agree to a degree. I do not agree with your number. There are also the Orthodox churches which are also part of the catholic church as we proclaim in the Nicene Creed. When we say, I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church’, we are stating that we believe that at least all canonical churches, are part of the catholic church.

Politely, you are incorrect

When we say we believe in “One , Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church” we mean the church which bears these four marks. As Vatican II and all the other Ecumenical councils and Papal decrees teach, that church is the Catholic Church alone.

 

[JonNC]

I think the RCC is not the one true Church because I reject the idea that the Pope has a universal jurisdiction, ability to define doctrine without council that is binding for the church and has a general universal supremacy.

The one true Church can be found in the local church as well as the universal church.

Jon

 

[JMM1957]

I hold that the Catholic Church is not “the one true Church founded” by Christ.
There are numerous aspects in Catholic history that contribute to this view (including an argument used by a Catholic against the Eastern Orthodox on this thread), but that is not the foundation of why I do not hold that the Catholic Church is God’s one true Church.
**I believe that God was involved in the “restoration” of His Church. So I embrace the Church of that restoration (as best I understand). **So my position is not based upon things I perceive are lacking in Catholicism, but is based on the embracing of a Church I believe was founded/restored by God.
Charity, TOm

Show from the Bible where it says the Church was to be “restored” at some point in the future? The OT Scriptures are full of prophecy concerning many things, the ultimate prophecies pointing to the revelation of the coming of the Son of God, our Savior and Lord, Jesus Christ. Where is there prophecy, OT or NT, about a great “restoration” of truth?

 

[rcwitness]

The one true Church can be found in the local church as well as the universal church.

Though imperfectly.

For example: Is the one, true Church found in a Symbolic Communion, or a Believer’s only Baptism, or an invalid ordination, etc. ?

 

[prodromos]

AGREED

Yet all 23 share the ONE same set of FAITH beliefs.

Are you quite certain of this?
Have you confirmed this by checking the doctrines taught by each of those 23 Churches?

 

[rcwitness]

Are you quite certain of this?
Have you confirmed this by checking the doctrines taught by each of those 23 Churches?

But PJM is not the Magisterium.

 

[Wandile]

Are you quite certain of this?
Have you confirmed this by checking the doctrines taught by each of those 23 Churches?

Yeah as all churches profess the catholic faith.

Now there may be some clerics and laity who hold non-catholic/heretical views but the churches officially hold the same faith.

 

[commenter]

Originally Posted by IgnatianPhilo View Post
"I think the RCC is not the one true Church because I reject the idea that the Pope has a universal jurisdiction, ability to define doctrine without council that is binding for the church and has a general universal supremacy.

The one true Church can be found in the local church as well as the universal church."
(end quote)

Not sure what that last sentence, a given within Protestantism, means. I think Protestants view the local church as the congregation of Christians who meet every week to share the Word, and possibly, communion.

Others would interpret “the local church” as all the Christians in a given area, in union with the local bishop. Others might interpret the local church as every Christian family, in its own home. Of course, every individual Christian is, in a way, a local church. (G. K. Chesterton, in a sentence I can’t find, described the confessional as a church.)

I would argue that aspects of the one true Church can be found in the Protestant understanding of the local church, as well as the other definitions. But full participation ****of ****the local church, **in **the one true Church, is found by its connection **to **the universal Church. The farther congregations, or individuals, families, or sees, move away from the current, visible One, Holy Catholic, and Apostolic Church, the less they will be part of the one true Church.

This does not prove that the RCC as a whole is the one, true Church, but I describe criteria that the RCC happens to meet.

 

[prodromos]

Though imperfectly.

For example: Is the one, true Church found in a Symbolic Communion, or a Believer’s only Baptism, or an invalid ordination, etc. ?

I believe he was referring to local church in the same sense as St Ignatius in his letter to the Smyrnæans.

 

[PJM]

I hold that the Catholic Church is not “the one true Church founded” by Christ.
There are numerous aspects in Catholic history that contribute to this view (including an argument used by a Catholic against the Eastern Orthodox on this thread), but that is not the foundation of why I do not hold that the Catholic Church is God’s one true Church.
I believe that God was involved in the “restoration” of His Church. So I embrace the Church of that restoration (as best I understand). So my position is not based upon things I perceive are lacking in Catholicism, but is based on the embracing of a Church I believe was founded/restored by God.
Charity, TOm

OK

Thanks for sharing

So truth does not in an absolute sense have to be “singular” per defined issue?

GBY

Patrick

 

[PJM]

Show from the Bible where it says the Church was to be “restored” at some point in the future? The OT Scriptures are full of prophecy concerning many things, the ultimate prophecies pointing to the revelation of the coming of the Son of God, our Savior and Lord, Jesus Christ. Where is there prophecy, OT or NT, about a great “restoration” of truth?

Absolutely AGREE with you, however tOm seems less interested in The Truth than his truth, so we’ll just pray for him.

The Holy Spirit has led him to CAF for a reason. Let’s see where it leads.

GBY