Why do you love the TLM?

[Walking_Home]

Oh my. Since I had no intention of “swiping” might I think there’s some over-senstivity on the topic. YEP! I do believe that. Simply amazing.

I attempt to say why I LOVE both forms of the Mass and so I’m declared an "ENEMY?"

Wow.

Prayers for all.

Quote=catharina
I love the Latin Mass because it was the Mass of my childhood and young adult years. I love the Ordinary Form because it has been the Mass for most of my life.

I’m a part of the huge majority of my generation that simply O**BEYED when the Church made changes in the Mass. **Approaching it in obedience led me to grow in love for the new form. My generation was carefully raised to be obedient to the Church, to listen for instructions from the Vatican, to pray always for the Holy Father whoever he might be. I have absolutely no complaints about the EF or the OF of the Mass.​

Really-- is that what you “attemp” to say with the above post. Interesting way of putting it —for your words imply --that those who held preference for the EF—did so out of disobedience.

 

[catharina]

Parsing Catharina’s prose:

"I love the Latin Mass because it was the Mass of my childhood and young adult years.
[So far, so good] I love the Ordinary Form because it has been the Mass for most of my life. [Hmm…where did this come from? Off-topic? But okay content-wise.]

I’m a part of the huge majority of my generation that simply OBEYED when the Church made changes in the Mass. [Whoa…way off-topic…and nice caps…I mean, you couldn’t be implying something here about those who remained attached to the old Mass? Nah…that would be uncharitable, eh, Catharina?] Approaching it in obedience led me to grow in love for the new form. [Notice we’re now way off-topic…it’s all about the OF now, and obedience thereto.] My generation was carefully raised to be obedient to the Church, to listen for instructions from the Vatican, to pray always for the Holy Father whoever he might be. [Self-praise, and generational praise, again off-topic…way off-topic.] I have absolutely no complaints about the EF or the OF of the Mass.

per Alex, all bolded above, personally judgmental …

Yes, I explained why I love both forms of the Mass (as we should) and what brought me to that (obedience). I know that you feel completely free to judge me and as the saying goes, that’s your problem. I care nothing for your judgments but deeply regret that you brought such negativity to this thread.

Thanks though for the peek into your mind.

Uh, Alex, why do YOU love the TLM?

 

[AlexV]

Ah, but Walking Home, don’t you know her game? What she implies is not the issue…what she not so thinly veils is not the issue…her derailing this thread is not the issue…it’s all about how wonderfully obedient she and her generation were…how they accepted whatever they were told…I mean really, if everyone had been as obedient as they were, we wouldn’t even need this forum…nobody would be celebrating the EF, since everyone would have obediently embraced the OF and moved on with life.

 

[catharina]

Quote=catharina
I love the Latin Mass because it was the Mass of my childhood and young adult years. I love the Ordinary Form because it has been the Mass for most of my life.

I’m a part of the huge majority of my generation that simply O**BEYED when the Church made changes in the Mass. **Approaching it in obedience led me to grow in love for the new form. My generation was carefully raised to be obedient to the Church, to listen for instructions from the Vatican, to pray always for the Holy Father whoever he might be. I have absolutely no complaints about the EF or the OF of the Mass.​

Really-- is that what you “attemp” to say with the above post. Interesting way of putting it —for you words imply --that those who held preference for the EF—did so out of disobedience.

If it matters, my preference is for the Latin Mass.
That was not the question of this thread.

As a result of obedience, I love both forms.
My words imply nothing more than that.
Perhaps you and A-V can carry on your blame of me in private???

Please put a lid on your imagination.
It seems that some “traditionalists” retain a need to kick someone every day.
Are you one of those?

 

[Walking_Home]

Ah, but Walking Home, don’t you know her game? What she implies is not the issue…what she not so thinly veils is not the issue…her derailing this thread is not the issue…it’s all about how wonderfully obedient she and her generation were…how they accepted whatever they were told…I mean really, if everyone had been as obedient as they were, we wouldn’t even need this forum…nobody would be celebrating the EF, since everyone would have obediently embraced the OF and moved on with life.

---

Good pt.

 

[ibkc]

Hey guys, can we put the train back on the track?

I love the EF for many reasons, some already named by others earlier in the thread - mainly the sense of prayerful reverence that is the hallmark of the EF. I will add that when I am at a EF mass, I feel closely connected to and a part of the very ancient history of the Church, knowing that the language spoken is what a Catholic would have heard a thousand and more years ago. I also get more of a sense of the sacrificial nature of the mass with the priest facing the altar.

 

[ProVobis]

Yeah, obedience indeed. I guess all the priests involved in the pedophilia crimes,the priests who abandoned their vocations to seek laicization en masse after the Council, the laity who stopped going to Mass altogether after the Council…I guess they’re all part of that great generation of “obedient” Catholics.

Not to mention all those bishops who made the Latin Mass “wide and generous” per Pope John Paul’s decree.

 

[catharina]

AlexV -
why do you love the TLM?

Since you jumped in here appropos of nothing but a need to criticize what you imagined I said, I await your answer.

Why do you love the Latin Mass?

Until then (You are so clearly not the Pope of me. Deo gratias!) …
adieu.

 

[Cat]

catharina, why not just drop the fight? There’s no one to help you fight off the bullies.

I did report them. I can’t believe how hate-filled some people are. It makes my stomach hurt.

And sadly, TLM lovers, it makes me feel even more estranged from the TLM. I realize that it’s not fair at all of me to judge this ancient Mass form by some of the people who supposedly support it. But I’m a human being, and bullying is frightening to me. I don’t want to be where there are bullies.

Why don’t some of you who love the TLM speak up and defend your sister in Christ from those who keep picking at her and baiting her and tearing her simple, positive post apart? It’s as though you all stick together or something, like a street gang. It’s just plain scary. Are you really Catholics? I thought Catholics loved.

 

[I_Believe]

I love the EF because it focuses me on God, not on myself or on the priest. The sacred feel of it is exactly what brought me to the Catholic Church, after floundering around in every protestant denomination I could find, eternally dissatisfied and unfulfilled by meaningless songs, pointless worship services, and pandering to my youth. The EF is an encounter with what we SHOULD be, not what we are, and it provides an identity, a fullness, that is lacking in modern-style Masses. I have also found it a great tool for evangelizing. Aside from myself, it brought 2 others I know to the Church, reinvigorated a family of 4, piqued the interest of an agnostic who didn’t like the modern-style protestant services, and earned the respect of many others.

The EF is home, to me. I longed for it even before I knew it existed(when I was a protestant and didn’t know what ‘Mass’ meant and still thought Catholics worhsipped Mary). The only thing bad about it is that it is not universal, and one must seek one out, which in my location means failing, because there is only one Low Mass in the entire Archdiocese(actually there might be two, but the point is they are both Low Masses and both hard to get to).

Thanks for posting. I like hearing from our youth on these matters.

 

[I_Believe]

This thread was going fine for about 13 replys. Then those outside of the group the OP was directed at had to start correcting and questioning the replys.

I play guitar. I don’t care for banjos. Wouldn’t it be rude of me to go to a music forum and offer (name removed by moderator)ut on a thread titled " Why do you love to play the banjo "? Since I don’t care for banjos, what could I offer the discussion, other than a disruption of it ?

What drives us to do this ?

(Now, if the thread was titled “what makes the TLM a better Mass”, then of course one would expect debate.)

btw, I’m directing this at the first 20 or so posts.

 

[Cat]

This thread was going fine for about 13 replys. Then those outside of the group the OP was directed at had to start correcting and questioning the replys.

I play guitar. I don’t care for banjos. Wouldn’t it be rude of me to go to a music forum and offer (name removed by moderator)ut on a thread titled " Why do you love to play the banjo "? Since I don’t care for banjos, what could I offer the discussion, other than a disruption of it ?

What drives us to do this ?

(Now, if the thread was titled “what makes the TLM a better Mass”, then of course one would expect debate.)

btw, I’m directing this at the first 20 or so posts.

But wouldn’t it be best of all to be charitable and welcoming to the guitar player who dropped in on the banjo thread?

To me, this is happening more and more in our society. A group of people at work are chatting, and someone approaches enthusastically and says, “Hi, ya’ll! I can’t wait to tell you about my weekend!” And someone in the group says, “DIdn’t anyone teach you that it’s rude to interrupt?”

Why not just say, “Oh, we’d love to hear about weekend! We’ll be finished with this discussion in just a few minutes and then we’ll be all ears.”

Yes, of course, the enthusiastic person shouldn’t have interrupted. But I think it’s even ruder for the discussion group to treat them like **** and humiliate them.

 

[ibkc]

It’s as though you all stick together or something, like a street gang. It’s just plain scary. Are you really Catholics? I thought Catholics loved.

Yes, Cat, it’s just like a street gang and I agree, it is really scary. Here’s how to spot them if any of them ever try to infiltrate your parish. The women are the ones with covered heads. The children clutch frighteningly well-worn copies of Jesus, Make Me Worthy and the men? They are the ones wearing ties - yes, ties. I know - it’s really terrifying. Fear the trads and their rosaries and their Latin and their chant playlists on their iPods.

 

[I_Believe]

But wouldn’t it be best of all to be charitable and welcoming to the guitar player who dropped in on the banjo thread?

To me, this is happening more and more in our society. A group of people at work are chatting, and someone approaches enthusastically and says, “Hi, ya’ll! I can’t wait to tell you about my weekend!” And someone in the group says, “DIdn’t anyone teach you that it’s rude to interrupt?”

Why not just say, “Oh, we’d love to hear about weekend! We’ll be finished with this discussion in just a few minutes and then we’ll be all ears.”

Yes, of course, the enthusiastic person shouldn’t have interrupted. But I think it’s even ruder for the discussion group to treat them like **** and humiliate them.

Right, but you are tying my thoughts in with a specific fight going on. That’s why I mentioned that I’m directing my comment at the first page or so.

I was just pointing out why the thread went sour.

It will never stop though. It’s the internet. We all say things online we’d never say face to face. Or at least in the same tone.

 

[AlexV]

Here is a thoroughly Catholic sentiment:

False charity is no virtue.

As has been stated repeatedly, this thread was about why one loves the EF.

Catharina gave a perfectly fine answer. But she also chose to introduce 1) why she loves the OF, which is not really a big deal but is off-topic, only to 2) make the point that she and so many others were “obedient” to the OF when it was introduced c. 1970.

Huh? Come again? WE’RE baiting the poor woman? WE’RE abusing her? We deserve to be censured?

The CLEAR implication of her post was that those who remained attached to the pre-conciliar liturgy weren’t “obedient”. I called her on it.

The pattern is always the same: someone takes a not-so-thinly veiled swipe at traditionalists, they get called on it by people who can read and reason, then they cry victimization and invoke “charity”.

 

[I_Believe]

Yes, Cat, it’s just like a street gang and I agree, it is really scary. Here’s how to spot them if any of them ever try to infiltrate your parish. The women are the ones with covered heads. The children clutch frighteningly well-worn copies of Jesus, Make Me Worthy and the men? They are the ones wearing ties - yes, ties. I know - it’s really terrifying. Fear the trads and their rosaries and their Latin and their chant playlists on their iPods.

I’m not laughing because of who you are replying to, but is is indeed funny lol.

I can see the headlines now. "Catholic Gangbangers seize Cardinal Mahoney’s Cathedral of the Angels. When asked for comment, the Cardinal answered " Catholics ? No ! You can’t be serious ! Oh well, how did the collection go " ?

 

[catharina]

As I said and now repeat:“I love the Latin Mass because it was the Mass of my childhood and young adult years. I love the Ordinary Form because it has been the Mass for most of my life. I’m a part of the huge majority of my generation that simply OBEYED when the Church made changes in the Mass. Approaching it in obedience led me to grow in love for the new form. My generation was carefully raised to be obedient to the Church, to listen for instructions from the Vatican, to pray always for the Holy Father whoever he might be. I have absolutely no complaints about the EF or the OF of the Mass.”~~~ My generation was raised to be obedient to the Pope. Thus most of us were obedient. Therefore, thanks be to God, we remain Catholic. If you are not of my generation, why do you care? Prayers for all who have posted on this thread, whatever their extraordinary sensitivites might be.

 

[sancte_joseph]

I love the TLM because…

It has a sense of reverance and secret and aww…that you can’t really find in a NO mass

The whole mass prepares me to receive Jesus…I truly feel my unworthiness(sp?) and grateful that the Lord should come to me.

I feel humbled…and as the sentence above said "The Lord comes to me…i wait for him there kneeling ready to receive the king of kings…

i also feel a communion of the saints…like they are there in communion with us…because i know many participated in such a mass or something similar…

One last thing…It is quiet…such a quiet feeling that brings you to meditation…on the Sacrifice of the Mass and all that your Lord has done for you…

It’s a humbling “experience” it makes me shrink(humbled) so as to let the Lord be glorified.

 

[Cat]

Yes, Cat, it’s just like a street gang and I agree, it is really scary. Here’s how to spot them if any of them ever try to infiltrate your parish. The women are the ones with covered heads. The children clutch frighteningly well-worn copies of Jesus, Make Me Worthy and the men? They are the ones wearing ties - yes, ties. I know - it’s really terrifying. Fear the trads and their rosaries and their Latin and their chant playlists on their iPods.

Is this sarcasm? I’m sorry, I don’t understand what you are saying.

What is Jesus Make Me Worthy? Is it a book of some kind? Please remember that until 2004, I was evangelical Protestant. I don’t have the Catholic background to understand a lot of the “Catholic” inside humor.

Are you saying that I am wrong to be afraid of people who gang up on a woman who doesn’t post quite the way the want her to post and attack her? Well, call me a coward. I steer clear of people who do things like that and then call it “charity.” According to the Bible, true charity is willing to overlook the faults of others and think the best of people.

I’m sorry if it appears that I am afraid of those who carry Rosaries and wear ties and love chant. These things I do not fear, but respect.

But I am afraid of those who practice cruelty and use the Catholic Church to justify their cruelty.

 

[ibkc]

Cat, it was an attempt to diffuse a difficult situation with some silly humor. Please stop seeing everything as some black-and-white, us vs. them battle. It doesn’t have to be that way. In fact in reality it is not that way.