Why do you think forced healthcare is immoral?

[sedonaman]

… You make right wing political points on a subject that has nothing to do with politics, its about loving your neighbour not a chance for a Republican rant. You need to read some of the Latin American Liberation Theology to find out what being a Christian is about and who Jesus came to save, it was not the rich.

Excuse me, but it has everything to do with politics. Government take-over of a major portion of the economy and dictating what people must and must not do is not politics? Why do you think politicians fought so hard for so long to pass it? Because of their altruistic Christian charity? Give … me … a … break!

And that Latin American Liberation Theology has been condemned by the Church as Marxist. Can’t get more un-Christian than that.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Wow…I…don’t even know what to say in reply to this. I don’t think I can dialog with you anymore. I’m not even worth a few pennies, apparently. So I’ll just go now.

Because by not allowing the medical measures out there that can extend that life you are actually shortening it.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Wow…I…don’t even know what to say in reply to this. I don’t think I can dialog with you anymore. I’m not even worth a few pennies, apparently. So I’ll just go now.

He thinks about only one thing keeping his money.

 

[Justin1982]

It is staggering to think that someone who calls themselves a Christian can think more about a tax than who is going to benefit from it. the USA amazes me. So called Christians like some of those posting here are the sort that make the Catholic Church seem so out of date and out of touch with what Christianity is about. You make right wing political points on a subject that has nothing to do with politics, its about loving your neighbour not a chance for a Republican rant. You need to read some of the Latin American Liberation Theology to find out what being a Christian is about and who Jesus came to save, it was not the rich.

I fail to see how the Catholic Church is out of date? I would say that this idea of socialist/Marxist doctrine that you proclaim is out of date. How many times must it be proven wrong? You fail to realize that people can be corrupted and the ones in power are much the same, except now they are at a level of authority. Taxation is not charity, how many hands are in the pot of tax dollars? Last I checked even your local Planned Parenthood gets tax dollars, so now are you going to attack me for being anti-abortion?
I’ll get off my soap box with this, Jesus came to save everybody, even the rich.

 

[TenBobNote]

He thinks about only one thing keeping his money.

When someone has a hound of wolves(most politicians) trying to steal their money one MUST protect the fruits of their labor, even when the wolves proclaim it is for the common good. Evil comes wearing an angels mask.

 

[cynic]

Would you be so kind as to give me an example, please?

Um…caring about you’re family and friends for example? You know…their welfare? The outcome for them being more important than how it benefits you (regarding your relationship with God etc) Only an emotionally stunted person would care more about the later.

 

[TenBobNote]

Um…caring about you’re family and friends for example? You know…their welfare? The outcome for them being more important than how it benefits you (regarding your relationship with God etc) Only an emotionally stunted person would care more about the later.

Would you care for your family and friends if it didn’t lead you to feel like you are in the moral right thus fulfilling your desire to treat others as you would want to be treated? The more you think about it the more you can not escape from only doing something from an internal selfish desire.

Example: Try to do something that does not have anything to do with any desire you may have, completely random, to try and disprove that you must be selfish, the act of trying to succeed and prove me wrong in itself was selfish because you wanted to be right, the only reason you did such is to prove me wrong.

Think, just for a bit, that “selfish” is a good word. Did God not create us to be an individual? We are not created as some borg collective, we are one person, our own, why would looking out for our selfish needs according to God’s will be wrong?

 

[royal_archer]

Hello,

I don’t make too many posts around here, but I figured I’d give my (name removed by moderator)ut to a thread that has obviously gotten way off-track.

As a German citizen living in said country, I find it shocking that there is so much resentment, or at least disagreement, with the new health care reform. I read it- it doesn’t look bad.

Yet we aren’t that much in debt. Not nearly as much as America is even though we’re forcing a lot more policies onto our people. We can’t even be homeschooled!

Much of that debt was accumulated saving the world from a few countries like yours. Afterwards we spent billions rebuilding your country, factories, infrastructure, etc. Then we spent massive amounts of money protecting countries like yours from the USSR and more recently terrorist states. At the same time we have been taking immigrants from around the world. This has had a significant contribution to driving our debt through the roof. As for lack of government funded programs, Traditional Americans are independent and willing to stand on their own two feet or accept the consequences if they fail; sorry if the thought of having to take responsibility for yourself scares you.

 

[royal_archer]

It is staggering to think that someone who calls themselves a Christian can think more about a tax than who is going to benefit from it. the USA amazes me. So called Christians like some of those posting here are the sort that make the Catholic Church seem so out of date and out of touch with what Christianity is about. You make right wing political points on a subject that has nothing to do with politics, its about loving your neighbour not a chance for a Republican rant. You need to read some of the Latin American Liberation Theology to find out what being a Christian is about and who Jesus came to save, it was not the rich.

So do you think that a person wasting the talents they have been given is pleasing to God?

 

[royal_archer]

He thinks about only one thing keeping his money.

and all some seem to care about is taking my money and the money earned by my neighbors.

 

[aspawloski4th]

and all some seem to care about is taking my money and the money earned by my neighbors.

Actually I’m fine with printing the money to pay for it. The money supply has more than doubled in the last year, why not use that to pay for the health plan! I care about lots of things, money isn’t my god.

 

[royal_archer]

Actually I’m fine with printing the money to pay for it. The money supply has more than doubled in the last year, why not use that to pay for the health plan! I care about lots of things, money isn’t my god.

But you do not seem to be opposing the tax and bribe heath care scam.

 

[cynic]

Would you care for your family and friends if it didn’t lead you to feel like you are in the moral right thus fulfilling your desire to treat others as you would want to be treated? The more you think about it the more you can not escape from only doing something from an internal selfish desire.

Right so you think caring for those close to you involves no more than satisfication gained from being in the moral right. You don’t feel anxious at the thought of harm coming to relatives as long as your own moral obligations are fulfilled? What about a relative in hell if you knew you did everything you could to change that? I’m guessing you still wouldn’t feel happy and at peace at the thought. ( yes, way off topic).

 

[Darkbloom]

Would you care for your family and friends if it didn’t lead you to feel like you are in the moral right thus fulfilling your desire to treat others as you would want to be treated? The more you think about it the more you can not escape from only doing something from an internal selfish desire.

Example: Try to do something that does not have anything to do with any desire you may have, completely random, to try and disprove that you must be selfish, the act of trying to succeed and prove me wrong in itself was selfish because you wanted to be right, the only reason you did such is to prove me wrong.

Think, just for a bit, that “selfish” is a good word. Did God not create us to be an individual? We are not created as some borg collective, we are one person, our own, why would looking out for our selfish needs according to God’s will be wrong?

How can you claim to know what a person’s motivations for an action are? Seems to me the hypothesis is untestable.

If I remember psych well enough, Freud argued that pretty much everything is motivated by some sort of sexual desire. If one were so inclined he or she could attribute to lust everything that you attribute to selfishness, and there would be no basis to judge who was right or wrong.

 

[estesbob]

Much of that debt was accumulated saving the world from a few countries like yours. Afterwards we spent billions rebuilding your country, factories, infrastructure, etc. Then we spent massive amounts of money protecting countries like yours from the USSR and more recently terrorist states. At the same time we have been taking immigrants from around the world. This has had a significant contribution to driving our debt through the roof. As for lack of government funded programs, Traditional Americans are independent and willing to stand on their own two feet or accept the consequences if they fail; sorry if the thought of having to take responsibility for yourself scares you.

Good post-when dealing with Americans i think germans should srtic to saying tow thing:

We’re sorry and Thank You.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Good post-when dealing with Americans i think germans should srtic to saying tow thing:

We’re sorry and Thank You.

Ironically, I did have an older German lady do just that when I was traveling through Europe.

 

[kimmielittle]

Much of that debt was accumulated saving the world from a few countries like yours. Afterwards we spent billions rebuilding your country, factories, infrastructure, etc. Then we spent massive amounts of money protecting countries like yours from the USSR and more recently terrorist states. At the same time we have been taking immigrants from around the world. This has had a significant contribution to driving our debt through the roof. As for lack of government funded programs, Traditional Americans are independent and willing to stand on their own two feet or accept the consequences if they fail; sorry if the thought of having to take responsibility for yourself scares you.

 

[grndslm]

I believe it is unconstitutional for the US Federal Government to force the citizens to BUY anything and then, if they don’t buy, to fine them. People would object to this no matter what the government was trying to get us to buy.

Technically… the U.S. Federal Government can force U.S. Citizens to do whatever they want. U.S. Citizens are agents of the U.S. Government… duh.

Now, U.S. Nationals (aka: state Citizens), on the other hand, only have to follow Constitutional Law, (not statutory law, like health insurance mandates, car insurance mandates, drivers license mandates, social security, taxes, etc.) because they claim their right to be a free man / woman… one above government, perhaps even above the Constitution, since men (aka: We the People, not citizens, a term that was created for those who were only considered “3/5ths of a person”) created the Constitution which gave birth to the U.S. Federal Government. How can a creation control the creator??

The creation has come up with some incredible deception, but you are still above it. If you just asked the government official that you’re dealing with a question… like, “from where do you derive your authority?”… you’re taking the higher ground by trying to break down the Truth of the matter for the benefit of both of you. Always ask questions…

If the government agent gives you a speeding ticket (it’s a notice)… then use the Uniform Commercial Code against the government agency that served you notice, by sending THEM a notice. Ask them 100 questions (perhaps expanding on the authority question I offered above) and mail it off within 30 days. Then they will go into a state of dishonor, since they can’t answer your questions.

The object of the game is to answer questions with more questions to show them that you’re standing on land (abiding by the Law of the Land), and their fictitious maritime (commercial courts) ship isn’t even real. That’s the real secret. They aren’t real, and it all goes away if you stand up and ask them to prove it. They will inevitably go into a state of dishonor if you ask the right questions. Even if they’re not the right questions, the fact that you’re asking them will mean you’ll eventually hit the right questions.

And I believe charity ceases to be chairty if it is forced on those donating.

And what if We the People are actually in favor of universal health insurance??? Last time I checked [actually, EVERY time I checked]… the majority of people have wanted universal health insurance (hint: I didn’t say Obamacare. there’s nothing universal or general about it). I have never seen one poll that said the people were opposed to universal health insurance. Even during the Obamacare brew haha… a poll said that 72% of people were in favor of the public option. People understand the corruption that has come from insurance companies who drop paying customers, who won’t even insure people who NEED it, even if they would pay for it.

Numbers and statistics don’t mean everything, but in this one case… the statistics have been consistent for decades. We the People can’t get what we want unless it’s good for the corporations first, tho.

 

[royal_archer]

And what if We the People are actually in favor of universal health insurance??? Last time I checked [actually, EVERY time I checked]… the majority of people have wanted universal health insurance (hint: I didn’t say Obamacare. there’s nothing universal or general about it). I have never seen one poll that said the people were opposed to universal health insurance. Even during the Obamacare brew haha… a poll said that 72% of people were in favor of the public option. People understand the corruption that has come from insurance companies who drop paying customers, who won’t even insure people who NEED it, even if they would pay for it.

Numbers and statistics don’t mean everything, but in this one case… the statistics have been consistent for decades. We the People can’t get what we want unless it’s good for the corporations first, tho.

Most people favor general notions of good intent. This is a case where the devil is in the details. I’d like to see everyone buying insurance but I don’t favor making a select few buy insurance while allowing a different select few to get it at the expense of the others.

I also have no problem with helping out that one in a million who are truly needy through no fault of their own but I know that there are millions of people lining up to get their freebees and will all claim they that one in a million person.

 

[TenBobNote]

And what if We the People are actually in favor of universal health insurance??? Last time I checked [actually, EVERY time I checked]… the majority of people have wanted universal health insurance (hint: I didn’t say Obamacare. there’s nothing universal or general about it). I have never seen one poll that said the people were opposed to universal health insurance. Even during the Obamacare brew haha… a poll said that 72% of people were in favor of the public option. People understand the corruption that has come from insurance companies who drop paying customers, who won’t even insure people who NEED it, even if they would pay for it.

Numbers and statistics don’t mean everything, but in this one case… the statistics have been consistent for decades. We the People can’t get what we want unless it’s good for the corporations first, tho.

There is a reason why this country was set up as a republic, because “the people” are often times in the wrong and let emotion overcome logic. There are certain rights guaranteed to us by the Constitution given to us by God himself. Just because the majority demands something does not mean it is right or moral, no matter the appearance. The mob will always rule in a democracy and the minority will suffer for it. This is the awesomeness of a republic, it is sustainable and good. There is no mob rule in a real republic, the right to life, liberty, and prosperity are guaranteed!