Why do you think forced healthcare is immoral?

[TenBobNote]

I do feel responsible for myself.

I am sick right now, and I’d like to go talk to a doctor, because I had strep throat 3 or 4 weeks ago… red bumps on the back of my throat… I took my anti-biotics that I was prescribed by Doctor 1, and they’re all gone. The red bumps are still there!!! I am not wealthy enough, nor does my employer offer health benefits. AND I DON’T KNOW WHAT TO DO!!!

My throat just started to get soar when swallowing today, and I’m about to have to break down and put myself in EVEN MORE debt. My responsible decision is to continue to wait it out for another few weeks and hopefully it’ll go away with the help of God. This is a time when being a Christian Scientist might not be such a bad idea… It’s the only way America will ever be able to get ahead!!

Well then you should want to promote less insurance, very high premiums universally would be about the only thing that is going to drop the cost of health care. You must know the price of what your buying to complain about it, thus inviting competition. Also you must see yourself as paying for the service directly rather then “oh well insurance is just going to pay for it anyway” to further reduce costs.

 

[Crumpy]

and all some seem to care about is taking my money and the money earned by my neighbors.

Pardon me, but people who have insurance are in a “pool” and at various times their money is paying for each other’s health care bill. THAT is the reason for requiring people to buy insurance (even insurance that they “don’t need”) so that they are contributing to the pool. Sometimes you are putting in, and sometimes you are taking out.

What I haven’t heard addressed here is this: Does this new health care bill give everybody the same level of health care? or, are we going to find out that there are still great discrepancies in health delivery: example: do you think people on Medicaid are going to get the same level of care as people on private insurance?

My mother is on Medicare Part D Prescription coverage, and not every plan is the same, not by a long shot. We’re on the cheapest plan, and there are some drugs it simply does not cover. For example, she is diabetic but her pancreas is still putting out insulin. Her doctor wants her to be on an oral drug that tells the pancreas to make more insulin, but the insurance company just wants her to go in insulin shots, because that is cheaper.

So, in her case, the cost is trumping the medical rationale.

 

[mariyka]

I do feel responsible for myself.

I am sick right now, and I’d like to go talk to a doctor, because I had strep throat 3 or 4 weeks ago… red bumps on the back of my throat… I took my anti-biotics that I was prescribed by Doctor 1, and they’re all gone. The red bumps are still there!!! I am not wealthy enough, nor does my employer offer health benefits. AND I DON’T KNOW WHAT TO DO!!!

My throat just started to get soar when swallowing today, and I’m about to have to break down and put myself in EVEN MORE debt. My responsible decision is to continue to wait it out for another few weeks and hopefully it’ll go away with the help of God. This is a time when being a Christian Scientist might not be such a bad idea… It’s the only way America will ever be able to get ahead!!

But if you wait, the bacteria may have a chance to enter your bloodstream, and you can get rheumatic fever and all that entails. You were probably given an antibiotic to which the strain was resistant, so you’ll be needing another course of antibiotics. As a repeat strep sufferer, I feel your pain.:sad_yes:

My prayers are with you.

 

[grndslm]

But if you wait, the bacteria may have a chance to enter your bloodstream, and you can get rheumatic fever and all that entails. You were probably given an antibiotic to which the strain was resistant, so you’ll be needing another course of antibiotics. As a repeat strep sufferer, I feel your pain.:sad_yes:

My prayers are with you.

That’s EXACTLY my point!!!

I really can’t afford to go see another doctor right now. I actually couldn’t even afford to do the strep test w/ Doctor 1, so I had to bypass that, too!!! It might not even be strep! Only God knows.

I don’t have the means to pay for such simple preventative care as a strep test. We just have to guess that’s what it is. It could be mono. It could be chronic sinusitis. I’m really not sure what it is, because I can’t afford such simple tests.

Some day, I might have rheumatic fever, and then I’ll need to go to the ER. Guess how much THAT visit is gonna cost. Likely, thousands, when $300 tops could have gotten it figured out early on.

I don’t even know what kind of specialist to see about such an illness (throat/neck doctor??), and it really doesn’t matter, because I just can’t go. The Emergency Room will be my only option, in all honesty…

And guess what happens when I’m not able to pay the hospital… you guessed right, the hospital is gonna go after the insurance companies, who will then pass on the costs to its customers. Thousands of dollars distributed ONLY among those who are already paying for insurance. Isn’t that odd?? Don’t you think that those people would much prefer to pay $200 for me now to see a doctor and get some kind of culture to p(name removed by moderator)oint the root of the problem, rather than pay thousands w/ that ER visit from my latency to diagnose the problem???

I just don’t understand the logic of people who oppose universal health insurance, in case, they don’t actually understand the problem. The problem is that ER visits are free for me (someone who already has terrible credit), and they’re something that you don’t want to be paying.

Don’t want to re-allocate some funds from “military defense” toward preventative care?? Good for you. You’ll reap what you sow. Perhaps the parallels between health insurance and the fire department will sink in when you soon receive some contagious disease from your neighbor that could have been prevented had it been acted upon sooner.

You want your property protected? … but not your life? … or your family’s lives? … or your friends’ lives? … or even some random person’s life??

I feel like I’d have better luck in getting this across to you all if I drew a picture. Would that help?

 

[aspawloski4th]

Pardon me, but people who have insurance are in a “pool” and at various times their money is paying for each other’s health care bill. THAT is the reason for requiring people to buy insurance (even insurance that they “don’t need”) so that they are contributing to the pool. Sometimes you are putting in, and sometimes you are taking out.

What I haven’t heard addressed here is this: Does this new health care bill give everybody the same level of health care? or, are we going to find out that there are still great discrepancies in health delivery: example: do you think people on Medicaid are going to get the same level of care as people on private insurance?

My mother is on Medicare Part D Prescription coverage, and not every plan is the same, not by a long shot. We’re on the cheapest plan, and there are some drugs it simply does not cover. For example, she is diabetic but her pancreas is still putting out insulin. Her doctor wants her to be on an oral drug that tells the pancreas to make more insulin, but the insurance company just wants her to go in insulin shots, because that is cheaper.

So, in her case, the cost is trumping the medical rationale.

All RA cares about is the money aspect. Cost this expensive that waste whatever. The financial types should be relegated to counting the beans and decisions on what the patients need should be up to the doctor, not a business manager or a bean counter.

 

[royal_archer]

I do feel responsible for myself.

I am sick right now, and I’d like to go talk to a doctor, because I had strep throat 3 or 4 weeks ago… red bumps on the back of my throat… I took my anti-biotics that I was prescribed by Doctor 1, and they’re all gone. The red bumps are still there!!! I am not wealthy enough, nor does my employer offer health benefits. AND I DON’T KNOW WHAT TO DO!!!

My throat just started to get soar when swallowing today, and I’m about to have to break down and put myself in EVEN MORE debt. My responsible decision is to continue to wait it out for another few weeks and hopefully it’ll go away with the help of God. This is a time when being a Christian Scientist might not be such a bad idea… It’s the only way America will ever be able to get ahead!!

You don’t need to be wealthy to get good health coverage, you just need to have a regular job. (not some part time or entry level job)

A break down over a sore throat?

 

[royal_archer]

Pardon me, but people who have insurance are in a “pool” and at various times their money is paying for each other’s health care bill. THAT is the reason for requiring people to buy insurance (even insurance that they “don’t need”) so that they are contributing to the pool. Sometimes you are putting in, and sometimes you are taking out.

What I haven’t heard addressed here is this: Does this new health care bill give everybody the same level of health care? or, are we going to find out that there are still great discrepancies in health delivery: example: do you think people on Medicaid are going to get the same level of care as people on private insurance?

My mother is on Medicare Part D Prescription coverage, and not every plan is the same, not by a long shot. We’re on the cheapest plan, and there are some drugs it simply does not cover. For example, she is diabetic but her pancreas is still putting out insulin. Her doctor wants her to be on an oral drug that tells the pancreas to make more insulin, but the insurance company just wants her to go in insulin shots, because that is cheaper.

So, in her case, the cost is trumping the medical rationale.

The government mandate requires you to buy the minimum “cadilac” plan whether you need it or not. You can not opt out of the mandated coverage.

historic insurance meant pooling resources with others who also contributed and you could balance cost, risk, and bennefits. With the new system you are force to pool with people who do not have to pay, and pay for coverage levels for them that you wouldn’t even pay for yourself.

 

[royal_archer]

But if you wait, the bacteria may have a chance to enter your bloodstream, and you can get rheumatic fever and all that entails. You were probably given an antibiotic to which the strain was resistant, so you’ll be needing another course of antibiotics. As a repeat strep sufferer, I feel your pain.:sad_yes:

My prayers are with you.

Or you could just go down to the pharmacy and buy the meds you need for a few bucks. Oh whait! the government is forbiding you from taking the practical approach.

 

[royal_archer]

That’s EXACTLY my point!!!

I really can’t afford to go see another doctor right now. I actually couldn’t even afford to do the strep test w/ Doctor 1, so I had to bypass that, too!!! It might not even be strep! Only God knows.

I don’t have the means to pay for such simple preventative care as a strep test. We just have to guess that’s what it is. It could be mono. It could be chronic sinusitis. I’m really not sure what it is, because I can’t afford such simple tests.

Some day, I might have rheumatic fever, and then I’ll need to go to the ER. Guess how much THAT visit is gonna cost. Likely, thousands, when $300 tops could have gotten it figured out early on.

I don’t even know what kind of specialist to see about such an illness (throat/neck doctor??), and it really doesn’t matter, because I just can’t go. The Emergency Room will be my only option, in all honesty…

And guess what happens when I’m not able to pay the hospital… you guessed right, the hospital is gonna go after the insurance companies, who will then pass on the costs to its customers. Thousands of dollars distributed ONLY among those who are already paying for insurance. Isn’t that odd?? Don’t you think that those people would much prefer to pay $200 for me now to see a doctor and get some kind of culture to p(name removed by moderator)oint the root of the problem, rather than pay thousands w/ that ER visit from my latency to diagnose the problem???

I just don’t understand the logic of people who oppose universal health insurance, in case, they don’t actually understand the problem. The problem is that ER visits are free for me (someone who already has terrible credit), and they’re something that you don’t want to be paying.

Don’t want to re-allocate some funds from “military defense” toward preventative care?? Good for you. You’ll reap what you sow. Perhaps the parallels between health insurance and the fire department will sink in when you soon receive some contagious disease from your neighbor that could have been prevented had it been acted upon sooner.

You want your property protected? … but not your life? … or your family’s lives? … or your friends’ lives? … or even some random person’s life??

I feel like I’d have better luck in getting this across to you all if I drew a picture. Would that help?

It just isn’t right to make others pay for an annonymous someone who doesn’t work enough to earn their keep and wants to see a specialist for a sore throat.

 

[lil_flower_luv]

This is why many oppose the health care destruction act. we know it is only the first step to a stalinist or Hitler vision.

Thank you. Very few have the guts to say that even though we are getting closer and closer to that day. America fought against this before and who’s to say with God on our side we can’t do it again?

God Bless you and all standing up for truth.

 

[joe_clark]

A few of these threads have been popping up since the passage of the healthcare bill, and I notice quite a few of you are upset over the mandate section of the bill.

I am curious if you think that it’s also immoral for the government to tax you in any way (re: being forced to purchase something), and if it’s immoral for the government to make you follow any other laws (re: forced charity).

If you think one is okay but not the other, why?

Mandatory and not forced healthcare is not immoral. It is immoral to leave the sick and dying to the political retoric in the wind. The Republican party always talks a great game about good healthcare in America for Americans but: Bla bla bla yak yak yak but never ever brings any healthcare bill to the floor. Why, because the business people that fill their coffers would not like this.

We have mandatory car insurance, homeowners insurance with no outrage here. Everyone can size up liability and exposure. So why not a an insurance to afford people medical attention when they need it. FDR talked about healthcare as a right of every citizen in the 1940’s. We are now in the year 2010. The business people/insurance companies had a good run playing games with the system and the peoples lives while making zillions of dollars. The party to take advantage is now over.

 

[royal_archer]

All RA cares about is the money aspect. Cost this expensive that waste whatever. The financial types should be relegated to counting the beans and decisions on what the patients need should be up to the doctor, not a business manager or a bean counter.

I only care about human rights, the supporters of Obama are the ones with an interest in money,other peoples money.

 

[royal_archer]

Mandatory and not forced healthcare is not immoral. It is immoral to leave the sick and dying to the political retoric in the wind. The Republican party always talks a great game about good healthcare in America for Americans but: Bla bla bla yak yak yak but never ever brings any healthcare bill to the floor. Why, because the business people that fill their coffers would not like this. .

Now that money will go to political action commitees that, unlike businesses, do not produce anything.

We have mandatory car insurance, homeowners insurance with no outrage here. Everyone can size up liability and exposure. So why not a an insurance to afford people medical attention when they need it.

When you do not have car insurance you loose your car, when you do not have home owners insurance, you loose your home (pending mortgage agreement). in both of those cases, if people do not pay up, they loose access to what they should have had insurance. Also, these insurances are based on risk, not ability to pay. If they ran health care insurance the same way we wouldn’t have many of these problems.

FDR talked about healthcare as a right of every citizen in the 1940’s. We are now in the year 2010. The business people/insurance companies had a good run playing games with the system and the peoples lives while making zillions of dollars.

actually obama care will guarantee business for them and with the mandatory coverage, customers will be less likely to leave a company that is under performing.
.

The party to take advantage is now over.

Maybe the terms of the party that is taking advantage of hard working Americans should be

 

[athair_siochain]

If that is the case then you should be getting on the case of all the deadbeats who are sucking up the vast charity in this country.

royal archer it seems you are not alone on this thread, the majority speak with a forked tongue,

forced health care . to even suggest it was forced shows a total lack of knowledge on the subject, it has taken 100yrs to" force" bring into being a health care service that does not discriminate against the needy. the poor. and those that are less well off, there is a desperate need to educate people teach them how to be human, follow the footsteps of Christ.

This talk of trillions of dollars in debt, the richest Nations are the most debt ridden, always have been, America has thrived on debt. banks collect billions of dollars everyweek in payments for loans , most of those payments only cover the interest on the loan,

Trillions of Dollars in equity is created every ten years on the Nations property. I dont see the anti. health people complaining about all that invented equity/money.

The real dead beats in our society are the parasite landlords and moneylenders. their health care is paid out of the rent and interest they collect from the people who do the real work,

 

[royal_archer]

forced health care . to even suggest it was forced shows a total lack of knowledge on the subject, it has taken 100yrs to" force" bring into being a health care service that does not discriminate against the needy. the poor. and those that are less well off, there is a desperate need to educate people teach them how to be human, follow the footsteps of Christ.

I’ll ignore the innapropriate insult.

forced is when you threaten someone with punitive efforts if they do not buy into a system against your will.

The poor and needy are not discriminated against. They have an equal right and ability to earn a paycheck and use it for what ever they see fit.

That education should start with the 10 commandments. Thou shall not steal, covet thei neighbors goods, etc.

 

[aspawloski4th]

I’ll ignore the innapropriate insult.

forced is when you threaten someone with punitive efforts if they do not buy into a system against your will.

The poor and needy are not discriminated against. They have an equal right and ability to earn a paycheck and use it for what ever they see fit.

That education should start with the 10 commandments. Thou shall not steal, covet thei neighbors goods, etc.

I don’t covet your goods. I don’t want your house, or your tvs, or your appliances or even your car. I haven’t robbed any banks or shoplifted. Sounds like Im following your favorite commandments to obsess over just fine.

 

[aspawloski4th]

While we are using documentation to show possible sin involved with having national healthcare, lets remember another Catholic teaching. Paying a less than just wage is a sin that crys to Heaven for vengence. Saying the worker agreed to that wages doesn’t do anything to make that wage just. The worker usually agreed to it because of the deress of either being treated badly or just being unemployed. Of all those who determine worker’s wages only those who did their job in a just fashion will get to Heaven.

 

[falasha]

After reading how much you religious types care about your fellow man, I am glad I am not religious.

 

[Vezelay]

Those of you who think our new health care law is immoral and/or illegitimate also think Social Security and Medicare are wrong because they take away our free will, are big gov’t, “socialist” programs, the biggest we have ever had (passed with very few republican votes). If the new law is judged to be unconstitutional because it makes a minority of people buy insurance then SS and Medicare will be eliminated as well. SS forces people to pay for old age insurance and old age health care. We have no free will in the matter. I am well off and could afford to buy insurance if I lose my Medicare but that’s not true for the majority of seniors. 13% of the people who pay no taxes are seniors who have little or no more than SocSec to live on. Soc Sec disappears, they have nothing whatsoever to live on and no health care. What to do? If you argue that the premiums are not a tax (the gov’t has unlimited right to tax) then it will just be changed into a tax and the gov’t will buy the insurance for you from the private insurance companies. Of course everything would be more expensive because of the administrative costs. I am delighted that the new law does away with the donut hole, forbids exclusion for preexisting conditions and so many more good things for our country. My doctor thinks it’s great. Many doctors come to this country to work because doctors here are paid more than in any other country. They come to a tax haven for the money. US taxes are lower than any other of the top industrialized nations. We have a shortage of doctors in this country because unlike other countries we do not pay for medical education. We do pay for the education of our military (in our academies) but unlike Europe and Canada and Japan we make doctors pay hundreds of thousands of dollars and so they have to charge huge fees to help pay back and once paid back they just keep raking in the high fee. France has repeatedly been judged to have the best health care in the world and they are much healthier than Americans. Health care in Mass and Hawaii continues apace. I have heard of no problems in Hawaii (See Jim Lehrer NewsHour) and the problems in Mass are being dealt with. Mitt Romney is justly proud of Mass Health and in the 08 debates he favored a federal mandate to buy insurance. This mandate was originally a proposal of Nixon and in 1993 Senators Hatch and Grassley proposed a federal mandate. A great many of the features of the health law are based on republican proposals which is probably why Obama thought he would get bipartisan support. Thank the Lord this law was passed. There are plenty of taxes to cover any necessary costs although most workers and employers will pay for most insurance as they do now, not the gov’t. Those of us who are well off should be prepared to pay more to be sure that the poor and sick received health care. Emergency Rooms are not free, not paid for by the gov’t. You get a bill for all serviced and if you don’t pay you get bill after bill after bill until you pay up. The bills are often turned over to collection agencies. A friend of my son’s broke his leg which cost him $12,000. He is still paying off the costs. If you don’t have insurance you pay for all and any health care unless you are extremely poor – or over 65 (even if you are rich). Show me the unfairness of our new health law.
Yours in Christ,
Vezelay

 

[John_Strick]

Everyone is talking about the “TAX” part of this but if you really read the bill it does provide for Abortion and require all hospitals that get any Medicare funds to do Abortions, and Doctors can not refuse to provide Abortions. And the Executive Order that he signed does not legally overide the Law. The Health Insurances companies MUST offer and pay for Abortion.

Now that is IMMORAL!!!