Why do you think forced healthcare is immoral?

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Rationing of healthcare has existed with the status quo—if you have the money, then you have the best service money can buy. So if the formerly unprivileged now have privileges, it makes it more inconvenient to obtain the care one wishes at a time and place most convenient to Number 1. Now, such services are now rationed to the club that formerly had exclusive privileges.
The best service money can buy will always be available to the people with the money to buy it. That won’t change. In your attempt to “stick it to the man,” you’ll just stick it to the middle class and the poor. Vengeance will not benefit you. Dragging people down to the lowest common denominator is never a good policy. “If I can’t have it, no one can!” What a whiney-baby approach to politics.
the majority voted in 2004 to DEREGULATE the mortgage industry, and the theft followed to where we are today? …Other than that, the decade was a disaster and you need to see the people who were in charge when it all hit the fan from 2000 to 2008. This is the time period when the republican party had a lock down and was in the majority, the very people who voted the protections away from the mortgage industry for one purpose and it turned out not to be good. Very selective memories do not serve a person well.
Bull. The Republicans were the main ones calling for reform in those areas. Several times. Look to Dodd and Barney Frank for policies perpetuated in their committees and which began much earlier than the 2000s, when mortgage lending was being subsidized, Fannie May and Freddie Mac were getting out of control, various groups (ACO-ough* cough) were pushing so hard to open up lending to people who shouldn’t have been buying homes, etc. Your guys share in the blame–by my estimation, as the greater root of the problem. Very selective memores do not serve a person well 🙂

Also, the current healthcare situation, those “evil insurance companies,” were basically created by government mandates in the 70’s. Very selective memores do not serve a person well.
With your love of money and lack of concern about health and wellbeing I wouldn’t trust you with anything concerning health. …You show the possiblity of having the disorder of paranoia. You are utterly paranoid over money, and others taking it from you…
My aren’t we judgmental. Accuse of the vice of greed while practicing the vice of malice. Nice.

I’m in a similar camp to Royal. I’d rather give my money to charities I support, that perform more efficiently and with far greater love and discretion than the government. That is why I endeavor to use tax credits like those in my two most recent home states (CO and MO) to give so much money to Catholic child care services and crisis pregnancy centers that I don’t pay a dime in state income taxes. While I do believe that some tax is necessary, I believe that we are overtaxed and the government does many inappopropriate things very inefficiently.

So I judge that it is far more responsible stewardship of the wealth God has blessed me with to devote it to more worthy causes.
I believe humanity and society have certain obligations towards one another. I have enough left over even though I pay taxes to provide education, health care and other services for others. What’s wrong with tending to the needs of the sick and disadvantaged without seeking wealth?
You speak of charity. Relying on government to provide “charity” is an abdication of charity. Charity is a private responsibility. Foisting that responsibility on government is not the answer. Jesus never said Caesar was supposed to care for the sick and the poor. WE are.

And so I give money to private, Catholic educational institutions–ones that don’t indoctrinate children with a-moral and anti-life messages in an environment of religious persecution while providing substandard education. I would rather not a penny of my money go to public schools, but I unfortunately have been deprived of that option.

As for health care, I have spoken already about giving money to child care and crisis pregnancy institutions. Did you know that insurance is also paying money into a system that other people can use? It’s like privatized socialism! Except that since it’s privatized, people can make choices in their purchase and competition makes the system more efficient, so it is less offensive to freedom, ultimately more productive, and leaves open individual moral choice and selection.

As for “other services,” I believe private charities do a much better job tending to the poor. And since I don’t abdicate my responsibility for these and other charitable efforts, I am conscious of the need to steward my time and talents in those services as well, rather than throwing money at a vast bureaucracy and letting them do the work dispassionately, apart from God and the law of love but rather under secular laws of men.

Just as some people object to paying taxes because a significant portion pays for our military, I reserve the right to object to paying taxes for other areas of government services that I believe are improper or poorly executed. Why do you have a problem with that? Why do you call it “seeking wealth” as if it’s a matter of greed?
 
You personally are not paying the bill,and you have proven to me you don’t have much medical knowledge.
According to my pay stub and the deductions I am paying.
With your love of money and lack of concern about health and wellbeing I wouldn’t trust you with anything concerning health.
This is inappropriate.
You said in an earlier post that the mentally ill should not be able to vote.
I don’t remember saying that. Please provide the post reference or apologize.
Better be carefull where you say that. You show the possiblity of having the disorder of paranoia. You are utterly paranoid over money, and others taking it from you. Before you judge my ability to know symptoms of that, my uncle and Godfather suffers from that illness as well as 2 others, I have personal experience in dealing with it.
Making medical diagnosis’s is not appropriate. Besides, I have a right to be concerned with my rights, you do not have a right to be so fixated on my earnings.
 
I am Canadian and I can’t imagine life without our socialized health care system. I am quite certain our system isn’t perfect, but from experience I know it is quite good for the most part and people’s health care needs are being met. There are times when we do have to wait our turn for procedures or treatments to take place, but it is understandable to get bumped if someone is in an emergency situation and in greater need of care. When something goes wrong, government looks into the matter and changes are made to improve our system moving forward. We don’t have to deal with insurance companies when we get sick. We don’t have to go into debt or fear losing our homes. We only worry about getting well.
That and taxes???
By the way do you have the illegal immigration problem we have in the US? Why have so many people risked their lives and lost their lives trying to move from socialist countries to the United States? As someone who is willing to work the thought of paying for my own insurance is not that frightening.
There are Canadians who travel to the United States to seek care rather than waiting their turn. That’s a decision many are able to make. I am in a financial position to do the same, but have never found the need.
So even with the Canadian system on the privileged few who can come to the US get the full spectrum of quality care.
I believe humanity and society have certain obligations towards one another. I have enough left over even though I pay taxes to provide education, health care and other services for others.
But why do some only feel that that obligation applies to those with an income? Why don’t those who don’t work and instead have lots of free time also get forced to give up what they have for society?
What’s wrong with tending to the needs of the sick and disadvantaged without seeking wealth?
What’s wrong with wanting to achieve something with your life?
 
According to my pay stub and the deductions I am paying.

This is inappropriate.

I don’t remember saying that. Please provide the post reference or apologize.

Making medical diagnosis’s is not appropriate. Besides, I have a right to be concerned with my rights, you do not have a right to be so fixated on my earnings.
First according to your pay stub you are paying taxes! Thats it. Second for what you said about mentally impaired and voting, go to the thread on homeless and poor getting no empathy and read post #60 then you appologise to me! Third I am not making a medical diagnosis, I am say that Im suspicous of… I am not fixated on your earings, I am fixed on getting things done. I’m a getting things done mode type person. You are the only one fixated on your money, the rest of us are interested in things working better while you could careless, just as long as youv’e got your money. You are so focused on your money that your posts are so predictable that it even bores me.
 
I guess the entire home repair industry is just a fraud right?:rolleyes:
The home repair industry doesn’t make reconmondations like that! My brother in law does that for a living and would never try to rip people off that way. On the subject of electrical I know my self. At the your age of 10 me and my dad rewired the house my family lives in now from all the insides to the outdoor watthour meter. When my family moved in it was 100 amp non grounded electrical service, when we were finished it was 200 amp grounded service. Thats was in the late 1970’s. I don’t think there is much need to check it all out!
 
First according to your pay stub you are paying taxes! Thats it. Second for what you said about mentally impaired and voting, go to the thread on homeless and poor getting no empathy and read post #60 then you appologise to me! Third I am not making a medical diagnosis, I am say that Im suspicous of… I am not fixated on your earings, I am fixed on getting things done. I’m a getting things done mode type person. You are the only one fixated on your money, the rest of us are interested in things working better while you could careless, just as long as youv’e got your money. You are so focused on your money that your posts are so predictable that it even bores me.
You will see in that post I did not say mentally ill people should not be allowed to vote as you falsely accused me of. If you want to get something done, go do it, don’t demand others do it for you.
 
The home repair industry doesn’t make reconmondations like that! My brother in law does that for a living and would never try to rip people off that way. On the subject of electrical I know my self. At the your age of 10 me and my dad rewired the house my family lives in now from all the insides to the outdoor watthour meter. When my family moved in it was 100 amp non grounded electrical service, when we were finished it was 200 amp grounded service. Thats was in the late 1970’s. I don’t think there is much need to check it all out!
Ok, so you don’t seem to care about inefficiencies in your wiring or potential degredation and don’t want to have the government force you to pay for anual checks. Many of us feel government mandated minimum medical coverage is a waste and don’t want to pay for it.
 
You will see in that post I did not say mentally ill people should not be allowed to vote as you falsely accused me of. If you want to get something done, go do it, don’t demand others do it for you.
Then just what does post #60 in the homeless/jobless empahy thread say then?!? Enlighten all of us who thought it said menatally impaired shouldn’t be allowed to vote. I didn’t ask you to do anything. It wouldn’t be worth my time, since all you care about is money anyway.
 
Ok, so you don’t seem to care about inefficiencies in your wiring or potential degredation and don’t want to have the government force you to pay for anual checks. Many of us feel government mandated minimum medical coverage is a waste and don’t want to pay for it.
I assure your you everything is up to code. My dad has always been the quentisential perfectionist. Residential electric doesn’t have much to it. When you get an apendix burst you will know I’m right and get it and to are wrong and didn’t get it.
 
Then just what does post #60 in the homeless/jobless empahy thread say then?!? Enlighten all of us who thought it said menatally impaired shouldn’t be allowed to vote. I didn’t ask you to do anything. It wouldn’t be worth my time, since all you care about is money anyway.
impared does not equal ill. Would you want someone who was drunk or stoned voting?
 
I assure your you everything is up to code. My dad has always been the quentisential perfectionist. Residential electric doesn’t have much to it. When you get an apendix burst you will know I’m right and get it and to are wrong and didn’t get it.
You have completely missed the point.
 
impared does not equal ill. Would you want someone who was drunk or stoned voting?
Mentally impaired is usually in reference to either an illness or retardation. While in the literal sense of the word it may be true we don’t use mentally imapaired to mean drunks or high, it is used in reference to a permenant condition. If you didn’t know that, I sugest you get your mind off of economics and your money for a while and go to your local library and start reading.
 
The government mandated plans will be cadilac plans because they will be so excessive that they will have to force people to buy them under penalty of law. This is why so many people are upset.

I don’t want you paying my health insurance and consider it highly insultiung that you accuse me of not having the capability to take care of myself and my family.
I just said I would be happy to help you out. If you had every capacity to take care of yourself and family, you would be living off the grid out in the wilderness, but since you are not, you are using the internet which was started with my tax dollars, you are driving on roads built with my tax dollars and you are being protected by my Army and Navy.

After accepting all that help, I thought you would appreciate being helped out with your insurance as well.

Peace
 
I just said I would be happy to help you out. If you had every capacity to take care of yourself and family, you would be living off the grid out in the wilderness, but since you are not, you are using the internet which was started with my tax dollars, you are driving on roads built with my tax dollars and you are being protected by my Army and Navy.

After accepting all that help, I thought you would appreciate being helped out with your insurance as well.

Peace
I pay for my internet, gas taxes for the road and taxes for defense. I have also served this country and stand ready to do so if need be again. There is a big difference between the division of labor and freeloading.
 
I pay for my internet, gas taxes for the road and taxes for defense. I have also served this country and stand ready to do so if need be again. There is a big difference between the division of labor and freeloading.
We all know , or should know, that our economy and taxation systems are so intertwined that we are all helping each other out, whether we want to admit it or not or whether we are open or not to receiving the help.

I appreciate your service to our country and for the protection that affords my family. I am honored and privileged to have paid part of your salary with my taxes.

Peace
 
We all know , or should know, that our economy and taxation systems are so intertwined that we are all helping each other out, whether we want to admit it or not or whether we are open or not to receiving the help.

I appreciate your service to our country and for the protection that affords my family. I am honored and privileged to have paid part of your salary with my taxes.

Peace
I believe what is in question is not whether we should have any taxes, but rather what the limits of taxes and government should be. The country was founded on a principle of limited government, both due to a valid concern about the dangerous and excessive power of government and for the love of liberty and productive spirit of the American people. These values were enshrined in our founding documents, including our binding Constitution. Many of us continue to hold those values.

For those that don’t, the question now is, if we are not to strictly and carefully limit government powers and the extent of taxation and mandated services, then what limit should be placed?

Taxing everything 100% and have the government provide all services is communism, and has been proven not to work. If we don’t go to that extent, where do we stop short? Why? What limits a government that views its own governing documents as “flexible,” to the point that nearly anything can be read between the lines of a reinterpreted, “living” document? These are the concerns many of us have. Are they not valid? Are they not questions we should be asking ourselves, always?

What of our Catholic principle of subsidiarity? At what point do we violate that when we shift our burdens to the government? At what point does the State become idol and savior?
 
I believe what is in question is not whether we should have any taxes, but rather what the limits of taxes and government should be. The country was founded on a principle of limited government, both due to a valid concern about the dangerous and excessive power of government and for the love of liberty and productive spirit of the American people. These values were enshrined in our founding documents, including our binding Constitution. Many of us continue to hold those values.

For those that don’t, the question now is, if we are not to strictly and carefully limit government powers and the extent of taxation and mandated services, then what limit should be placed?

Taxing everything 100% and have the government provide all services is communism, and has been proven not to work. If we don’t go to that extent, where do we stop short? Why? What limits a government that views its own governing documents as “flexible,” to the point that nearly anything can be read between the lines of a reinterpreted, “living” document? These are the concerns many of us have. Are they not valid? Are they not questions we should be asking ourselves, always?

What of our Catholic principle of subsidiarity? At what point do we violate that when we shift our burdens to the government? At what point does the State become idol and savior?
Great Point!!!

I was sitting in my car thinking about all the things I could afford- if not for taxes. That would include insurance.

As to the government being limited- it should. I have no doubt that the framers of the constitution didn’t want this.
 
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