Why do you think God allowed Protestantism?

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OK, sorry i didn’t say waht was so difficult about Catholicism (for me):

well, being celibate for 100 years hasn’t been easy… 😃
Fr Corapi tells the story of a young novice monk who asks the old sage monk when the sexual feelings stop. The old sage monk pauses, then says very thoughtfully, as I understand it, those feelings stop 3 days after you are dead. 😃
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distracted:
loving those who don’t love me is not easy (but all Crhstians supposedly believe in that)…

being purged at the Blessed Sacrament is not always easy…

driving 50 miles to get to Mass because there isn’t any other Mass going on is not easy (don’t have to do tht very often)…
50 miles!!!

You must live way way way out in the boonies.
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Confessing certain sins is definitely NOT easy… (which is why i sometimes drive 50 miles…) 😃

being persecuted because no one understands your faith is not easy (esp when you live in a mostly Protestant world)… 😦

depriving myself of certain things i want but that God may not want (and Church wouldn’t approve of, necessarily) is not easy…

I think that should suffice for now… (?)
okay okay, I get it now. :cool:
 
I believe that he allowed it because the Catholic church became too powerful in this world so was attracting people attracted to power and not to Him. Nowadays our priests and nuns certainly don’t take their vows to increase their earthly power. They are across the board holy people because there are absolutely no earthly advantages to doing it that I can see. Their devotion to our Lord is allowed to shine through.🙂

That is true for us lay people as well. We certainly don’t go to mass to grab at earthly power. :rolleyes:
 
This might sound crude but when I was a Protestant I used to think that God was evolving the Church. Lower forms (Catholics) evolving into higher forms (Protestants), like Cro-Magnon to Homo Sapien. I don’t BTW think this way any more.
 
This might sound crude but when I was a Protestant I used to think that God was evolving the Church. Lower forms (Catholics) evolving into higher forms (Protestants), like Cro-Magnon to Homo Sapien. I don’t BTW think this way any more.
That is very insightful statement. That is how many Protestants feel and the next incarnation is charasmatic churches. Hmmm.
 
I believe that he allowed it because the Catholic church became too powerful in this world so was attracting people attracted to power and not to Him. Nowadays our priests and nuns certainly don’t take their vows to increase their earthly power. They are across the board holy people because there are absolutely no earthly advantages to doing it that I can see. Their devotion to our Lord is allowed to shine through.🙂

That is true for us lay people as well. We certainly don’t go to mass to grab at earthly power. :rolleyes:
as to the 1st part of your post - i am not syaing there isn’t a certain amount of truth to it but i think that Protestants have exaggerated (terribly) the history of the Church. Trhoughout its history She has been both divine & human, both corrupt and incorrupt and incorruptible. The Church never, as some imply, “died” & somehow got resurrected becasue of the likes of M. Luther (& co.)… but that is what they would sometimes have you think… What bothers me is that most Protestants don’t study Church history and when/if they do, they get their history from Protestant sources…

as 2 the last sentence: this confirms my point… all throughout histoyr there have been MANY in the Church who could have said the same hting… it seems people just want to focus on those few screw-ups… but that is always the case… (priest sex scandal, etc.)
 
Fr Corapi tells the story of a young novice monk who asks the old sage monk when the sexual feelings stop. The old sage monk pauses, then says very thoughtfully, as I understand it, those feelings stop 3 days after you are dead. 😃
Gee… i thought it was 3 HOURS after death!! But anyway, yeah, it gets to feel pretty unnatural always suppressing one’s desires… but oh well… i have to marry the one who is right or i will marry no one at all… so i may have another (seeming) 100 yrs ahead of me… :hypno:
50 miles!!!
slight exaggeration… but when you have a car that has a million miles on it (another exaggeration 😃 )… it’s all about relativity…
You must live way way way out in the boonies.
not far enough OUT, if you ask me… 😦
 
Name one or two reasons you think God allowed Protestantism.

I think one reason might be that Catholicism is so… difficult, that maybe God wanted there to be an “easier, softer” way that would lead people to Christ (and He knew that many would then be led to the RC Church)?? Just a thought.
This is an interesting, but completely wrong conclusion.

Why? Because the structure of the RCC is directly from God, and it’s truth is assurred by The holy Spirit.

Some make a big deal of “faithfull Catholic practice being hard.” Let us not forget what Christ suffered for US on the Cross, and that we to MUST suffer in return. "If you wish to come after me,take up YOUR CROSS and follow Me (that means do as I did for you!) God away’s, everytime, in every case, in every circumstance provides abundant graces to permit us, IF we accept His grace and apply them properly, to fullfill His Will:thumbsup: Mt.11: 25 At that time Jesus declared, “I thank thee, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to babes; 26 yea, Father, for such was thy gracious will. 27 All things have been delivered to me by my Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and any one to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. 28 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” (C)

Have you ever considered how difficult is would be to practice, say, Mormonism, or the Amish religious practices, or Orthodox Judism? Now those are really tough!
Also, i think that Protestants generally focus on different things than Catholics do, different “aspects” of God, things that are nonetheless very important… like, well… i just think that sometimes they are more… friendly… & i feel they may trust in God’s mercy more than a lot of Catholics…
Yep, your right in so far as we Catholics can and should learn to be more friendly and welcomming! But take care in where they have different philosophy’s and theologies than we do. There can only be a songle truth for any issue, and only within the Catholic / Orthodox Churches is the complete and single truth ot be found.

The fact that God is “All Knowing” is at least part of the answer.

Look at what has taken place witin His Church in the past fifty years are so.

For example according to the 2000 Catholic Almanac:

In 1965 about 70% of all Catholics regullarly fullfilled there Sunday and Holiday Obligations. In the year 2000, that number had decreased as a percentage, to about 25%

Then factor in the Great works the Grahms, and Dr. Dobson’s “Focus On The Family,” and we can easly see that they have filled a very large Spiritual need, not filled by the American -CC.

Even without the Sacraments, and the “fullness of truth”, these two examples are leading a great many to Christ, and may God bless them for there work in His vineyard.

No, I’m not down on the RCC. But like so many, I am devistated by this **Post Vatican II American Catholic Church, **which has in oh so amny way’s seperated from Romes authority and guidance!

54% of “catholics” voted for a known Pro-Death Candidate! I read last year an article in, I think in Time magazine, who did an article on the Sacrament of Confession, which claimed that perhaps as many as 90% of Catholics do not go to Confession even once per year! Wow!!!

You phrased you question very well. God permitted this, but did not cause it.

God is alway’s in charge, alway’s has a plan and in the end, His Divine Will, will be done! amen!

But it will take our cooperation, our humble obedience, our learning, practcing and then sharring our RCC!

God bless, and Merry Christmas! Joy to the world, Christ is HERE!

PJM m.c
 
**

54% of “catholics” voted for a known Pro-Death Candidate! I read last year an article in, I think in Time magazine, who did an article on the Sacrament of Confession, which claimed that perhaps as many as 90% of Catholics do not go to Confession even once per year! Wow!!!
** i am not so sure about that54% figure… i think that the pollster (whomever that is ) may have, say, gone out on some New York street orsomething & asked people “Are you Catholic?” and proceeded from there… But if he had gone to Catholic Churches & asked people leaving Mass on Sunday… he would ahve gotten a lower # who voted for that… well, you know… that guy in need of Jesus, shall we say :rolleyes:
You phrased you question very well. God permitted this, but did not cause it.
 
Personnally I believe the Protestant “Revolt” and the Great Schism occurred for the same reasons why Isreal was divided and the diaspora also occurred in the Old Testament. During both times there was great corruption within the Body of Christ because of its close ties with secular authority. Power corrupts and that is exactly what happened to the Church as a whole during both periods.

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frankly, i’m not so sure about this. I don’t think the corruption in the Church was much worse than it is now. Of course, that is not to minimize the corruption there now… There is plenty of individual corruption there… The devil is IN the Catholic Church… (long story what i mean, exactly…)…

Martin Luther had psycholgoical problems and should never have become a priest… so that enters into the picture along with the corruption of certain Catholic Church members… but again, it is just a few bad apples we are talking about in the Church. The ones who hold positions in the Church mostly wield spriitual power, not worldly power and i believe it has always been that way… with just a few corrupted people here & there… making things bad for everyone, as thye always do…

anyway, it is hard to tel when there is so much biased info written by anti-Catholics… (history books, etc.). I will belive the Catholic accounts of history long before i will even think of trusting the protestant ones…

(that’s cause i know that Catholics [real Catholics, the catechized ones] know that if they lie, they will fry in Hell - or at least Purgatory… :eek: ) 😃
 
i am not so sure about that54% figure… i think that the pollster (whomever that is ) may have, say, gone out on some New York street orsomething & asked people “Are you Catholic?” and proceeded from there… But if he had gone to Catholic Churches & asked people leaving Mass on Sunday… he would ahve gotten a lower # who voted for that…
As an FYI, the number came from a USA Today Poll, the day after the election.

The reason I felt comfortable using it is because roughly the same percentage of “catholics” voted for Kerry and Gore, who too are “Democrats” and Strongly Pro-Death candidates.

So there does seem to be a base issue of incomplete or just darn poor Catechesis.😊
well, you know… that guy in need of Jesus, shall we say :rolleyes: Yes, but at this point I believe God actually wanted some form of Protestantism. I know that may sound awful :eek: coming from a devout RC… but i can’t help but think that… I think that when one leaves the Church, one is going to fall on one’s face… & God gives people up to their reprobate minds/hearts… lets them leave Him… because He knows they will probably find Him better that way than any other ways…
Sorry to have to disagree with you again.

Are you a Convert? (Please don’t take offence at the question, I’m just trying to determine how best to share our faith with you?)The reason I ask is that what you are expressing is a sediment often found more prevelent in Protestantinm than in Catholism. It reflects an incomplete understanding of the Whole Christ.

None Catholics seem to have a glorified image of the Mercy and Loving Nature of Almighty God. Now this isn’t bad, it’s just a skewed and incomplete image and understanding.

God possess all good attributes, and certainly His Love and Mercy top the list. But they don’t complete it. God who is also All Knowing and All Wise, is, and take this literally, HAS TO BE, All Just.

Catholics seem to palce a greater biblical emphasis on the Old Testament, than do many of our other Chrsitain Brethern. Therefore they may not hear as much about God’s Just Actions (“revengence is Mine say’s the Lord”) and the frequency and severity of God’s punishmnets are legendary.

Look for example at what He did to **Moses **for hitting “the rock twice” instead of once. He was not allowed to enter the Promised land. Or King David, who had one of his Captains killed so he could marry his wife. He was not allowed to build God a Temple. Or look at the many other Kings and Judges, those few who obeyed God in every way, were blessed, and those who reverted to Paganistic practices, were severly punished.

Look at Sodom and Gamorah, and the age of Noah and the near wipeout of humanity.

The Catholic Church teaches that we may not rely excessevely on God’s Mercy.

The Catechesim of the RCC: "2092 There are two kinds of presumption. Either man presumes upon his own capacities, (hoping to be able to save himself without help from on high), or he presumes upon God’s almighty power or his mercy (hoping to obtain his forgiveness without conversion and glory without merit).

Salvation is From God, specifically Jesus Christ, but can only be attained because of our gifts of "free-will and intellect, by mans cooperation.

780 The Church in this world is the sacrament of salvation, the sign and the instrument of the communion of God and men.

All salvation is mysteriously tied to the RCC, as it is the only Church actually founded by Jesus.

For a Catholic to have been blessed and graced with the embrace of the RCC, to leave the One True Church, alway’s put’s that persons soul in Grave danger. There would have to be** extrodinary** reason for God to overlook this serious error of spiritual judgement.

Certainly simply “not liking this or that” or choosing not to accept a RC doctrine ar Dogma, or other expressed laws, would not be easly overlooked by God.

We must meet God on His terms, and as we are told repeately, we must follow His Commandments, His Leaders (those who hear you, hear me, those who deny you (He’s speaking here specifically to St. Peter and the Apostles) deny Me and the One who sent Me." That is pertty serious stuff.

God always, in every case provides sufficuent grace for one to accept the Teaching and disiplines of the RCC. Always!

God bless you! Hope you had a Blessed Christmas day!

PJM m.c.
 
So that eventually there would be Baptist, why else,
My dear friend in Christ, your post gave me the biggest smile I have had today.😃 God bless you!

Do yourself a favor;

Read John 3:16

Then read John 3:5

Then read John 3:31

There awhole lot more to Salvation they your post suggest:thumbsup: Amen!

PJM m.c.
 
My dear friend in Christ, your post gave me the biggest smile I have had today.😃 God bless you!

Do yourself a favor;

Read John 3:16

Then read John 3:5

Then read John 3:31

There awhole lot more to Salvation they your post suggest:thumbsup: Amen!

PJM m.c.
I know those verses very well, your point is?

I also know that if it were my choise (my free will) to follow Christ it would never have happened. It was God’s effectual call that changed my will to follow him
 
Name one or two reasons you think God allowed Protestantism.

I think one reason might be that Catholicism is so… difficult, that maybe God wanted there to be an “easier, softer” way that would lead people to Christ (and He knew that many would then be led to the RC Church)?? Just a thought.

Also, i think that Protestants generally focus on different things than Catholics do, different “aspects” of God, things that are nonetheless very important… like, well… i just think that sometimes they are more… friendly… & i feel they may trust in God’s mercy more than a lot of Catholics…
When protestant religions became a force to be reckoned with, at that time the Catholic Church was very corrupt in certain areas. While I dislike the disunity, I think in many ways the leadership of the Catholic Church at the time had this coming.

Martin Luther had the right intentions in the beginning, and because of this protestant revolution, positive change was brought about in the Church.
 
Free Will.

God allows men to do as they wish, for good or for ill.
 
I am surprised no one has brought this up. Without the Protestant Reformation, there would have been no Catholic Reformation.

There would have been no Council of Trent, no religious orders such as the Capuchins, Ursulines, Theatines, Discalced Carmelites, the Barnabites, and the Jesuits no saints such as Ignatius of Loyola, Teresa of Avila, John of the Cross, Francis de Sales and Filippo Neri.

There would have been no Puritans to sail to the New World to found the United States as we know it now. There would have been no Vatican II or an large ecumenism effort.

Also, priests would probably still be selling indulgences.

It’s only been about 500 years since the split. Maybe its part of a larger plan God has when the Protestants eventually come back home.
 
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