Why do you think God allowed Protestantism?

[greystoke]

Name one or two reasons you think God allowed Protestantism.

I think one reason might be that Catholicism is so… difficult, that maybe God wanted there to be an “easier, softer” way that would lead people to Christ (and He knew that many would then be led to the RC Church)?? Just a thought.

Also, i think that Protestants generally focus on different things than Catholics do, different “aspects” of God, things that are nonetheless very important… like, well… i just think that sometimes they are more… friendly… & i feel they may trust in God’s mercy more than a lot of Catholics…

Not sure about Protestantism being “easier, softer”!

Am sure that they are trying their utmost to bear witness to the truth, as do all believing Christians (and believing Jews). I am sure that Catholicism is closer to the truth

I am sure also that God works in mysterious ways. Remember the answer to Job, when God finally spoke to him from the whirlwind:

“Where were you when I laid the foundation of the World?”

I sit here befuddled and constantly surprised, and often skeptical. But I think there is a higher purpose, a higher criterion than any judgement or explanation we can conjure up on our own.

 

[look3467]

---

Searching? for what. i am not searching. what are you searching?

St. Thomas Aquinas concurs: “To reject but one article of faith taught by the Church is enough to destroy faith as one mortal sin is enough to destroy charity…”

Does not your handle address that issue? w-i-s-d-o-m-s-e-e-k-e-r?

Or do you know everything there is to know already?

In all loving kindness, knowledge of God is unsearchable to the point where we could never stop if we started.

But, in our searchings, we are blessed by, because God is genuinely interested in our interest in Him.

Let us learn together?

Peace>>>AJ

 

[look3467]

Am sure that they are trying their utmost to bear witness to the truth, as do all believing Christians (and believing Jews). I am sure that Catholicism is closer to the truth>>>greystoke

Only if it is coupled with Godly Love! Otherwise, it will be like a reed blowing in the wind.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[wisdomseeker]

Does not your handle address that issue? w-i-s-d-o-m-s-e-e-k-e-r?

Or do you know everything there is to know already?

In all loving kindness, knowledge of God is unsearchable to the point where we could never stop if we started.

But, in our searchings, we are blessed by, because God is genuinely interested in our interest in Him.

Let us learn together?

Peace>>>AJ

as Catholics we have the Church. the Pillar and Bullwark of Truth.

**St. Thomas Aquinas concurs: “To reject but one article of faith taught by the Church is enough to destroy faith as one mortal sin is enough to destroy charity…” **

 

[look3467]

as Catholics we have the Church. the Pillar and Bullwark of Truth.

**St. Thomas Aquinas concurs: “To reject but one article of faith taught by the Church is enough to destroy faith as one mortal sin is enough to destroy charity…” **

That is all fine good and proper for you but not necessarily for everyone else.
Therefore, the only good thing that you can do is to exercises the love of God by your own actions first rather than to promote the institution first.

Because faith lies not in the Catholic Church but in the Christ of the Catholic Church.

Then if faith in Christ is the point, is it not available to anyone seeking Him from the heart?

If from the heart, don’t you think God will open up the channels by which that individual can come to further knowledge, whether it be the Catholic church or a protestant church?

God is not limited only but to our own imaginations.

Shall we allow Him to work through us by our faithful exercise of His love?

Peace>>>AJ

 

[wisdomseeker]

QUOTE=look3467;4699531]That is all fine good and proper for you but not necessarily for everyone else.

why not? dont you want to know who rightly teaches the Word of God?

Therefore, the only good thing that you can do is to exercises the love of God by your own actions first rather than to promote the institution first.

without this Institution there would not be the Bible. that is why God has created the institution to safe keep God’s Word so our generation could hear about our Lord.

Because faith lies not in the Catholic Church but in the Christ of the Catholic Church.

faith comes from hear the Word. the question is: hear from whom?

QUOTE]Then if faith in Christ is the point, is it not available to anyone seeking Him from the heart?

how did you even hear of Christ, if there was no Church?

If from the heart, don’t you think God will open up the channels by which that individual can come to further knowledge, whether it be the Catholic church or a protestant church?

He already did. i bet you if you go back in time you will find the Catholic all the way back to the Apostles. and i bet you if you go back in time with your church, you will not find it.

God is not limited only but to our own imaginations.

that is why we have the Church, so we dont go wondering around trying to figure out what the Word of God means.

QUOTE]Shall we allow Him to work through us by our faithful exercise of His love?
Peace>>>AJ

yes we should. that is why Jesus gave us the Church so we could have faith. faith on the Head of the Church, Jesus. we must obey the Church according to Jesus.

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

nancy dalrymple

Jesus’ own words are they not, and if yes, is it not worthy for you to consider?

The Mormons perceive it to meet their own beliefs, but truly, as gods are we not in charge of our own little kingdom?

Our little kingdoms are what can not exist (dead) unless we conform it to Gods Kingdom.(life)
Peace>>>AJ

Hello,I was refering to the Mormons belief that we are all gods and that would mean we would not have any reason for Christ,for we would be equal to God and allready would have eternal life.That sounds like denial of Christ?

 

[look3467]

why not? don’t you want to know who rightly teaches the Word of God?>>>Wisdomseeker

Yes, the one who confirms all that I learn is the Holy Spirit whether I gain knowledge from the Catholic Church or Protestant churches.

Again, are we limiting God?

without this Institution there would not be the Bible. that is why God has created the institution to safe keep God’s Word so our generation could hear about our Lord>>>Wisdomseeker

True for the most part, but consider the trials and tribulations the Church has gone through as it present form.

God knew the limitations of mankind that is why His real church is spiritual where nothing can defile it.

You and I are safely members of that spiritual church, and one that will stand true regardless of what mess we create here on earth.

faith comes from hear the Word. the question is: hear from whom? >>>Wisdomseeker

The word can come from any place, except the Holy Spirit gives understanding, nothing will stick as truth.

how did you even hear of Christ, if there was no Church?>>>Wisdomseeker

First I was born into the Catholic belief, was an alter boy, loved going to church and searching all I could about God.
At the age of about 12 I was introduced to the Baptist church of which then the bible was introduced to me for the first time.

There I found a gold mine of what I hoped to find about the God that I loved.

My faith was still the same in both places but has being molded and shaped by the Holy Spirit as it has through trial and error confirmed in me His love by granting me revelation into His word to my greatest Joy and His gratification.

He already did. i bet you if you go back in time you will find the Catholic all the way back to the Apostles. and i bet you if you go back in time with your church, you will not find it>>>Wisdomseeker

Wisdomseeker, I stand on a firm foundation, a solid rock that can not be moved, one where the wind and the waves can not affect a change, and that rock is Jesus and not the catholic Church.

Can you stand on your own two feet on that same rock, independently from the Catholic Church?

I’m not wanting you to diminish the importance of the Catholic Church, but to affirm your standing on that solid rock which is the true and real church of Christ.

Continue your work in the Catholic Church but promote Christ first, and let them find out who you are.

that is why we have the Church, so we don’t go wondering around trying to figure out what the Word of God means>>>Wisdomseeker

OK, that’s great! Now go and live it to the best of your ability.

I’m sure that if your heart is right with God it will be noticed in your daily walk.

We can sell a product and miss the spirit of the product by the enthusiasm of the product.

Which one is greater?

Peace>>>AJ

 

[look3467]

Hello,I was refering to the Mormons belief that we are all gods and that would mean we would not have any reason for Christ,for we would be equal to God and allready would have eternal life.That sounds like denial of Christ?

I knew who you were referring to, but we are as gods, reigning over our own lives, knowing both to do good and or evil.

In that respect, there are no differences between any of the worlds beliefs, for we are all categorized as lost and in need of saving.

If anybody denies Christ in ignorance does not negate the works of Christ on the cross.

Hence Christ’s words, love your enemies?

Peace>>>AJ

 

[jmcrae]

Yes, the one who confirms all that I learn is the Holy Spirit whether I gain knowledge from the Catholic Church or Protestant churches.

Again, are we limiting God?

God is not blown around by the winds of fashion. His Catholic Church is still the True Church. He does not dance unpredictably from church to church, inserting a little truth here, and a little truth there, and then expect us to go on some kind of a scavenger hunt for His Word.

Rather, He has placed His word into the Catholic Church, and it remains there, unaltered, steadfast, able to be found.

First I was born into the Catholic belief, was an alter boy, loved going to church and searching all I could about God.
At the age of about 12 I was introduced to the Baptist church of which then the bible was introduced to me for the first time.

You were only a child; do you think that the Catholic Church was never going to teach you about the Bible? No, rather, She was waiting for you to reach a level of maturity when you would be able to understand it. Also, in child-sized pieces, She had already been introducing you to the basic concepts found in the Bible, right from when you were baptized. (What book do you think that was, that you were holding for the priest, when you were serving at the Altar? What do you think he was reading aloud to you, at the Mass?)

Can you stand on your own two feet on that same rock, independently from the Catholic Church?

The Catholic Church is the voice, and hands, and feet, of Christ - it is His Body here on earth. To be Catholic is to literally be “in Christ.”

 

[look3467]

God is not blown around by the winds of fashion. His Catholic Church is still the True Church. He does not dance unpredictably from church to church, inserting a little truth here, and a little truth there, and then expect us to go on some kind of a scavenger hunt for His Word.>>> jmcrae

No, God is not blown around, but winds of doctrines are and unless we are firmly grounded on the solid rock, we will be swept away.

God seeks those that would seek after Him and provide His assistance via His Holy Spirit regardless of what church they belong to.

A scavenger hunt is not the same as seeking spiritual truth.
I’ll direct you to these verse: Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Buying is an action. “Seek and ye shall find”

Rather, He has placed His word into the Catholic Church, and it remains there, unaltered, steadfast, able to be found.>>>jmcrae

His word is the bible. And the bible is in all the world to be found.

But the spirit of that word is what is life!

Peace>>>AJ

 

[jmcrae]

No, God is not blown around, but winds of doctrines are and unless we are firmly grounded on the solid rock, we will be swept away.

And where do we find that Rock? (Matthew 16:18-19) - In Peter’s house. (The Catholic Church, as we see when we trace forward through Peter’s successors, and find that Pope Benedict XVI is his modern-day successor.)

God seeks those that would seek after Him and provide His assistance via His Holy Spirit regardless of what church they belong to.

In Acts 2, we see that God gave the Holy Spirit to that Church of which Peter was the head preachin’ guy.

We do not see any similar miracles occuring at the founding of any of the Protestant religions, during the 1500s. In fact, quite the opposite - the fires that were seen at that time were the fires of war - not only war against the Catholic people, but also against each other’s people. Does the Holy Spirit sow dissension? Discord? Violence?

A scavenger hunt is not the same as seeking spiritual truth.

My very point.

I’ll direct you to these verse: Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Oil? Gold? White garments? Remind you of anyone?

Buying is an action. “Seek and ye shall find”

Amen!

His word is the bible. And the bible is in all the world to be found.

The Bible was given by the infallible proclamation of Pope Innocent I in 405 AD. The Word of God, we see in John 1, is not a book, though - it is Christ, Himself.

But the spirit of that word is what is life!

Amen, again!

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

I knew who you were referring to, but we are as gods, reigning over our own lives, knowing both to do good and or evil.

In that respect, there are no differences between any of the worlds beliefs, for we are all categorized as lost and in need of saving.

If anybody denies Christ in ignorance does not negate the works of Christ on the cross.

Hence Christ’s words, love your enemies?

Peace>>>AJ

I’m sorry,but I dont feel all the religions are the same,alot believe some dont to those who believe he gave the right to be called the sons of God.And love your enemys has a variety of meanings. A wise person makes no enemys, for you’ll never know if someday you will be in their hands or at their mercy. And if we are as gods then we are not gods.Yes all authority was given unto man for he made him a little lower than the angels and crowned him with glory and honor.Man has had dominion over all the earth and look what a mess it’s in,because of no structure,balance,love,my people suffer from LACK of knowledge.And greed has been their master,anyone who thinks we are all equal with god,puts Christ to public shame and the love of God is not in him. But the love of the world,and the lusts of the flesh is their father When you have a chance to believe in Jesus and deny him you are not a part of the family of God Even the demons tremble at his name.Cause they have knowledge! The fear of the Lord is the begining of wisdom. Nancy

 

[ERose]

Yes, the one who confirms all that I learn is the Holy Spirit whether I gain knowledge from the Catholic Church or Protestant churches.

Again, are we limiting God?

If you study writings of the NT and his writings and delve into the writings of the early Fathers, one of the things that stands out throughout is the desire for unity among Christians and protection of the truth handed down to the church by Christ through his apostles and their successors. The church was built and organized to become a pillar and foundation of that truth as St Paul said to Timothy. You cannot take away the Church from Christianity no matter how hard you try period. 1) You would not know Christ and his life. 2) You would not have the New Testament. & 3) You would not have some idea how to worship God. All of this is provided by Christ THROUGH his Church which is the Body of Christ.

Christianity was never ever meant to be a religion of relitivity. We cannot just pick and choose what we want to believe and not believe and expect assurances that salvation is ours. The patriarchs, prophets, apostles, and fathers did not have that option. God gave them a specific guidelines and knowledge to follow and that was it. Can you imagine what would have happened if Moses told God after he received the 10 commandments that he (Moses) was going to take the “Thou shalt not commit adultry” clause out for he didn’t think that it would conform to his lifestyle he wanted?

The greatest heresy and danger to Christianity in modern history is relativism period. We can just pick and choose what we want to believe and say that God does not want that commandment to apply to me for I feel that the Holy Spirit is telling me that. How are you so sure that it is the Holy Spirit?

True for the most part, but consider the trials and tribulations the Church has gone through as it present form.

God knew the limitations of mankind that is why His real church is spiritual where nothing can defile it.

You and I are safely members of that spiritual church, and one that will stand true regardless of what mess we create here on earth.

How can you be sure? What tells you that you are safely on your way to heaven?

The word can come from any place, except the Holy Spirit gives understanding, nothing will stick as truth.

Again how can you be sure? There has got to be checks and balances if not then you, me or anyone else may be fall onto the road of perdition and not know it until it is too late. I am sure that the founders of the Mormans, Jehovah Witness, etc. thought that the Holy Spirit was guiding them on their path. Are the Mormans or Jehovah Witnesses the right church because their leaders believed that they were being led by the Holy Spirit? If you say yes then in good conscience you should leave your church and join theirs.

Wisdomseeker, I stand on a firm foundation, a solid rock that can not be moved, one where the wind and the waves can not affect a change, and that rock is Jesus and not the catholic Church.

Can you stand on your own two feet on that same rock, independently from the Catholic Church?

I’m not wanting you to diminish the importance of the Catholic Church, but to affirm your standing on that solid rock which is the true and real church of Christ.

Continue your work in the Catholic Church but promote Christ first, and let them find out who you are.

The problem with this statement is that the Church and Christ are one and the same. Paul says that the Church is the body of Christ. We are its members and Christ is it’s head. It is through the Church that Christ reveals himself to the world. That hasn’t changed in 2000 years and is not going to change period. That was His promise.

The other thing is that truth is absolute. There is only one truth and the Holy Spirit is not going to lead 32000 different denominations 32000 different directions with differing doctrine, etc. No only the corruption of man with push by Satan leads to 32000 different denominations. Not God. God may allow it to happen for mankind is stubborn but he does not desire it of us. As Christ said" Father let them be one are You and I are One"

 

[adolfo123]

Name one or two reasons you think God allowed Protestantism.

I think one reason might be that Catholicism is so… difficult, that maybe God wanted there to be an “easier, softer” way that would lead people to Christ (and He knew that many would then be led to the RC Church)?? Just a thought.

Also, i think that Protestants generally focus on different things than Catholics do, different “aspects” of God, things that are nonetheless very important… like, well… i just think that sometimes they are more… friendly… & i feel they may trust in God’s mercy more than a lot of Catholics…

Why would God make it easier or softer if Jesus himself said its easier for a camel … then for a rich men…and the narrow door… ? I think God alone protestantism to purified the RCC from falls preaching of sales of salvation by buying a card for ones sins… if the protestant reformation had not happen the RCC would not rediscover thetreasures it has as the bride of christ

 

[una_fides]

That is all fine good and proper for you but not necessarily for everyone else.
Therefore, the only good thing that you can do is to exercises the love of God by your own actions first rather than to promote the institution first.

Because faith lies not in the Catholic Church but in the Christ of the Catholic Church.

Then if faith in Christ is the point, is it not available to anyone seeking Him from the heart?

If from the heart, don’t you think God will open up the channels by which that individual can come to further knowledge, whether it be the Catholic church or a protestant church?

God is not limited only but to our own imaginations.

Shall we allow Him to work through us by our faithful exercise of His love?

Peace>>>AJ

God wants all people to know the truth about him. Jesus himself promised that he is the way, the truth, and the life. God’s grace leads people to the truth about him. We know that the fullness of truth is in the Catholic Church (1 Tim 3:15). Thus, God’s grace, that saves, is leading people to his Church. The problem is PRIDE. It is a mortal sin and is the reason that most people stay out of the Church and instead remain in what they want to think is the truth. Sincerity does not save. Living a life of grace in Christ is the only way one can be saved. One can sincerely believe that worshiping satan and committing evil is the way to salvation, but he would be doing so in opposition to grace, not in cooperation to it. God’s grace leads people to the truth. It leads people to be part of his Church, outside of which there is no salvation.

Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos:
“We desire that Our children should also know, not only those who belong to the Catholic community, but also those who are separated from Us: if these latter humbly beg light from heaven, there is no doubt but that they will recognize the one true Church of Jesus Christ and will, at last, enter it, being united with us in perfect charity.”
papalencyclicals.net/Pius11/P11MORTA.HTM

 

[MelanieAnne]

If you study writings of the NT and his writings and delve into the writings of the early Fathers, one of the things that stands out throughout is the desire for unity among Christians and protection of the truth handed down to the church by Christ through his apostles and their successors. The church was built and organized to become a pillar and foundation of that truth as St Paul said to Timothy. You cannot take away the Church from Christianity no matter how hard you try period. 1) You would not know Christ and his life. 2) You would not have the New Testament. & 3) You would not have some idea how to worship God. All of this is provided by Christ THROUGH his Church which is the Body of Christ.

Christianity was never ever meant to be a religion of relitivity. We cannot just pick and choose what we want to believe and not believe and expect assurances that salvation is ours. The patriarchs, prophets, apostles, and fathers did not have that option. God gave them a specific guidelines and knowledge to follow and that was it. Can you imagine what would have happened if Moses told God after he received the 10 commandments that he (Moses) was going to take the “Thou shalt not commit adultry” clause out for he didn’t think that it would conform to his lifestyle he wanted?

The greatest heresy and danger to Christianity in modern history is relativism period. We can just pick and choose what we want to believe and say that God does not want that commandment to apply to me for I feel that the Holy Spirit is telling me that. How are you so sure that it is the Holy Spirit?How can you be sure? What tells you that you are safely on your way to heaven?Again how can you be sure? There has got to be checks and balances if not then you, me or anyone else may be fall onto the road of perdition and not know it until it is too late. I am sure that the founders of the Mormans, Jehovah Witness, etc. thought that the Holy Spirit was guiding them on their path. Are the Mormans or Jehovah Witnesses the right church because their leaders believed that they were being led by the Holy Spirit? If you say yes then in good conscience you should leave your church and join theirs.
The problem with this statement is that the Church and Christ are one and the same. Paul says that the Church is the body of Christ. We are its members and Christ is it’s head. It is through the Church that Christ reveals himself to the world. That hasn’t changed in 2000 years and is not going to change period. That was His promise.

The other thing is that truth is absolute. There is only one truth and the Holy Spirit is not going to lead 32000 different denominations 32000 different directions with differing doctrine, etc. No only the corruption of man with push by Satan leads to 32000 different denominations. Not God. God may allow it to happen for mankind is stubborn but he does not desire it of us. As Christ said" Father let them be one are You and I are One"

BRAVO!

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

God wants all people to know the truth about him. Jesus himself promised that he is the way, the truth, and the life. God’s grace leads people to the truth about him. We know that the fullness of truth is in the Catholic Church (1 Tim 3:15). Thus, God’s grace, that saves, is leading people to his Church. The problem is PRIDE. It is a mortal sin and is the reason that most people stay out of the Church and instead remain in what they want to think is the truth. Sincerity does not save. Living a life of grace in Christ is the only way one can be saved. One can sincerely believe that worshiping satan and committing evil is the way to salvation, but he would be doing so in opposition to grace, not in cooperation to it. God’s grace leads people to the truth. It leads people to be part of his Church, outside of which there is no salvation.

Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos:
“We desire that Our children should also know, not only those who belong to the Catholic community, but also those who are separated from Us: if these latter humbly beg light from heaven, there is no doubt but that they will recognize the one true Church of Jesus Christ and will, at last, enter it, being united with us in perfect charity.”
papalencyclicals.net/Pius11/P11MORTA.HTM

You know I read that and it realy made me think. More people should read it. I’m going to e-mail it to some people. where did the name Catholic come from? Nancy:thumbsup:

 

[ERose]

You know I read that and it realy made me think. More people should read it. I’m going to e-mail it to some people. where did the name Catholic come from? Nancy:thumbsup:

Nancy,

The term Catholic was first used in the 2nd century AD by St. Ignatius of Antioch a disciple of St. John the Apostle in one of his letters magnificant letters or epistles. The term “Catholic” means universal. Thus in the creed when we say one, holy, catholic and apostolic church you are actually saying one, holy, universal and apostolic church. These are the four benchmarks of the one true church.

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

Nancy,

The term Catholic was first used in the 2nd century AD by St. Ignatius of Antioch a disciple of St. John the Apostle in one of his letters magnificant letters or epistles. The term “Catholic” means universal. Thus in the creed when we say one, holy, catholic and apostolic church you are actually saying one, holy, universal and apostolic church. These are the four benchmarks of the one true church.

Thank You, St Ignatius was the one that Polycarp was with that helped John before he died to write Revelations? If that’s the one I think you are the right church they were with John until he died. I read a book on John and remember their names. Did the church split because it was to dogmatic or it had too much authority? Nancy