Why do you think God allowed Protestantism?

[nancy_dalrymple]

Yes. They are Jews For Jesus. jewsforjesus.org/

Thank You for the link.Love of Christ Nancy

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

You hit the nail on the head. It is a bogus notion. And Prtotestantism was merely the inevitable emergance of one more outgrowth of true bibical life to join the baptists in proclaiming the life that Christ died and rose to provide. The amazing thing is that God allowed the Roman Catholic Church to survive as long as it has.

This is a totally antagonistic, inappropriate post. I decry stuff like this just as much as I detest posts from Catholics that bash Protestants with such ignorance.

Your post is silly in that it presupposes that Catholicism, which by your view is invalid and full of errors, sin, and false teachings, was allowed by God to reign supreme in Western Europe and the Mediterranean for 1,500 years as well as the Orthodox, who share most Catholic traits you despise, also controlled Christianity in the East. So God handed over a holy Church that died out after the apostles, totally disregarded his own “the gates of Hell will NOT prevail against my Church” and allowed the sinners to languish in false, idiotic teachings that gain no salvation for 1,500 years straight. Then, out of nowhere, the Lutherans came (with whom you’ll also disagree because they’re light years from Baptists, sharing many Catholic beliefs) and then later into the 1600’s and 1700’s, God delivered the sinners by bringing about the Baptist denomination? You seriously are going to slap that down on us here?

Some folks might just as easily make the same silly question about your denomination? It’s amazing your denomination has lasted this long? I won’t though, because it’s nonsense. What is your motivation in coming to CAF? To bash Catholics or to “edumuhcate” us?

2,000 years and running…sometimes the engine needs an overhaul and a few gaskets changed, but it keeps on running…

 

[Worthy5]

i’m still waiting for an answer…where does it CLEARLY STATE that the rc is primera?..the answer is that it doesnt and all the versing in the world wont change that……fd

My friend, all language is subject to multiple interpretations and contexts. And then there is that nasty translation problem again. Are you reading the Bible in the original Greek and Hebrew?

Do you believe in divine revelation? If you do then you cannot say you know anything about it because of the problem of the indeterminancy of all language. How can divine revelation be known from written language? Further, The Bible cannot justify itself-how do you know the Bible is what it says it is-divine revelation? Where does it state in the Bible that you (your personal name inserted here) have any authority to interpret the Bible at all or to say the Bible is what is proclaims to be? Just curious Thanks

 

[Worthy5]

You hit the nail on the head. It is a bogus notion. And Prtotestantism was merely the inevitable emergance of one more outgrowth of true bibical life to join the baptists in proclaiming the life that Christ died and rose to provide. The amazing thing is that God allowed the Roman Catholic Church to survive as long as it has.

My friend, all language is subject to multiple interpretations and contexts. And then there is that nasty translation problem again. Are you reading the Bible in the original Greek and Hebrew?

Do you believe in divine revelation? If you do then you cannot say you know anything about it because of the problem of the indeterminancy of all language. How can divine revelation be known from written language? Further, The Bible cannot justify itself-how do you know the Bible is what it says it is-divine revelation? Where does it state in the Bible that you (your personal name inserted here) have any authority to interpret the Bible at all or to say the Bible is what is proclaims to be? Just curious Thanks

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

I believe the Bible is the Word of God and there should never be any disputes about it. The Word came to people before Jesus came to earth and he came to forfill the Holy scriptures. i dont care if you are Baptist Catholic Jewish ETC the Word of God Stands Forever! Read it and believe or Read it and Weep! God is no respector of men. Nancy

 

[1beleevr]

Nancy: Not sure exactly what you are confused about withe the Way Fellowship! But, I believe the name comes from the passage in John 14:6, you know, “I am the Truth the Way and the Life,”:thumbsup:And we are an externally focused body of believers(belonging to the Body of Christ, Bride of Christ). Yesterday, after we had communion, we all took of our socks and shoes, and washed the feet of someone with whom you were not related, or knew well! It was extremely humbling, yet exhilerating!

 

[1beleevr]

Speaking of interpretation, when I read James 5:16, it does not mean, “Confess your sins to a priest,” it says confess our sins to one another! And John 20:23, doesn’t mean confess your sins to a mortal man(priest) either 1John 1:9, however, does say that if we confess our sins unto Him(God), He is faithful to forgive:thumbsup:And how can you deny that 2Samuel 14:14, is a reference to Christ! It seems that we squabble about different interpretations, languages, etc., while God just shakes His head!

 

[Worthy5]

Speaking of interpretation, when I read James 5:16, it does not mean, “Confess your sins to a priest,” it says confess our sins to one another! And John 20:23, doesn’t mean confess your sins to a mortal man(priest) either 1John 1:9, however, does say that if we confess our sins unto Him(God), He is faithful to forgive:thumbsup:And how can you deny that 2Samuel 14:14, is a reference to Christ! It seems that we squabble about different interpretations, languages, etc., while God just shakes His head!

My friend, all language is subject to multiple interpretations and contexts. And then there is that nasty translation problem again. Are you reading the Bible in the original Greek and Hebrew?

Do you believe in divine revelation? If you do then you cannot say you know anything about it because of the problem of the indeterminancy of all language. How can divine revelation be known from written language? Further, The Bible cannot justify itself-how do you know the Bible is what it says it is-divine revelation? Where does it state in the Bible that you (your personal name inserted here) have any authority to interpret the Bible at all or to say the Bible is what is proclaims to be? Just curious Thanks

 

[MatthewCrossman]

Paul had to rebuke Peter, “even Peter”, on caving in to the Jews over circumcision. Had the first Pope had his way, we’d all have been Jewish Catholics, or Catholic Jews.

As far as I’m concerned the business about “Papal Infallibility” is unnecessary. He is recognised as the head of the Catholic Church, is the direct heir of Peter, and doesn’t NEED this contentious label to qualify him. All it does is create a stumbling block to church unity.

I’m well aware the context is limited to the Pope’s speaking on behalf of the whole church on a question of “faith and morals”. When I was talking to one priest about it, the example he used was that if the Pope gave you a tip for next Saturday’s races, it would not be regarded by the church as “infallible”, particularly if the horse came in last.

I don’t see the necessity. It was brought in essentially as a knee-jerk reaction by a bunch of hardline Ultramontanists to the humiliation of the Pope by revolutionary forces. These were the sorts of clowns who thought Cardinal Newman was an Anglican in drag. One of the things I’ve been told is never to make a major decision in the middle of a crisis, unless it’s absolutely necessary. They totally ignored that rule. It was unnecessary.

What Christ said about the Pope’s authority was that it was “BINDING” in heaven and on earth. But He implied the Pope could change the rule and it would be “LOOSED” in heaven and on earth… In other words this year’s binding infallible ruling could next year be revoked, infallibly no doubt. I see the contraceptive ruling in that regard. It’s never been subjected to infallibility as a doctrine, but the mere fact that the Pope is “infallible” gives the impression it’s fixed and immutable. And personally I think that particular ruling is a load of ****.

Hey Bob, thanks for your reply.

To my mind (which admittedly is quite fallible) it’s not really like the belief in papal infallibility was simply dreamed up in 1870 but was merely formally defined, much like the long-held belief of Mary’s Immaculate Conception.

"Would heretics dare to come to the very seat of Peter whence apostolic faith is derived and whither no errors can come."
–Cyprian of Carthage, 256 A.D.

Blessings,

Matt.

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

Speaking of interpretation, when I read James 5:16, it does not mean, “Confess your sins to a priest,” it says confess our sins to one another! And John 20:23, doesn’t mean confess your sins to a mortal man(priest) either 1John 1:9, however, does say that if we confess our sins unto Him(God), He is faithful to forgive:thumbsup:And how can you deny that 2Samuel 14:14, is a reference to Christ! It seems that we squabble about different interpretations, languages, etc., while God just shakes His head!

I do confess my sins to Father God, and as far as a priest he is of one or other. I thought the washing of feet was for the priests to get ready to do communion at the alter? I washed feet all my life in nursing homes and hospitals, so I guess i have been humble:thumbsup: Even better confess to the one you hurt have you tried that?

 

[jmcrae]

Speaking of interpretation, when I read James 5:16, it does not mean, “Confess your sins to a priest,” it says confess our sins to one another! And John 20:23, doesn’t mean confess your sins to a mortal man(priest) either 1John 1:9, however, does say that if we confess our sins unto Him(God), He is faithful to forgive:thumbsup:And how can you deny that 2Samuel 14:14, is a reference to Christ! It seems that we squabble about different interpretations, languages, etc., while God just shakes His head!

It’s not an “either/or” situation, in the Confessional. Both the priest and God are in there, together, hearing your Confession. The priest is being used by God to let you know in clear language, what you need to do, and that you are forgiven (or not, according to the binding and loosing that is given to him through the Apostles by Jesus Christ.)

 

[jargon631]

Why is it so important to you that the Bible “clearly state” something in order for you to have faith in it? Do you believe that God is three persons in one being? Would you say that it is a fundamental Christian belief? And does the Bible “clearly state” this fact to you?

it is important because it is key to this debate…i’t has been stated here that christ founded the first church and that statement has been defended biblicaly(sort of)…if it’s not clearly stated then the arguement collapses under the crushing weight of illogic…why does it collapse?..because if the “evidence” extracted from these verses are peoples interpretations, then they are automatically invalid… man cannot decide for everyone else what is valid and what is not…thats where religious persecution starts…and where god ends…fd

 

[jmcrae]

it is important because it is key to this debate…i’t has been stated here that christ founded the first church and that statement has been defended biblicaly(sort of).

Okay, let’s go through it step by step:

Would you agree that when Jesus says, “I am founding my Church …” (Matthew 16:18) that He means to say that He is founding a Church?

 

[Matariel]

well…maybe you can answer the question…it’s quite simple…where in the bible does it CLEARLY STATE that god chose catholicism to represent him on the eart…no one seems to be able to answer that question…i dont want to know what your interpretation is(not to sound rude, mind you)…i want to know where the bible state a preference for catholicism…plainly, directly, wi8th no need for convoluted “explanations”……frederick

It’s generally accepted historic fact… we have the records too, of the early Christians (who were Catholic) and their apostolic lines from Peter and others. The Pope is the successor of St. Peter, who received authority to tend the flock of Christ (the Catholic Church).

Not all doctrines are in the Bible, the Bible is only one part of the larger Deposit of Faith.

 

[Derek_24ca]

Name one or two reasons you think God allowed Protestantism.

I think one reason might be that Catholicism is so… difficult, that maybe God wanted there to be an “easier, softer” way that would lead people to Christ (and He knew that many would then be led to the RC Church)?? Just a thought.

Also, i think that Protestants generally focus on different things than Catholics do, different “aspects” of God, things that are nonetheless very important… like, well… i just think that sometimes they are more… friendly… & i feel they may trust in God’s mercy more than a lot of Catholics…

God allowed other denominations so the world would know the truth.

 

[jargon631]

Okay, let’s go through it step by step:

Would you agree that when Jesus says, “I am founding my Church …” (Matthew 16:18) that He means to say that He is founding a Church?

step by step…line by line…who cares…it makes NO CLEAR STATEMENT!!!..since it doesnt its OPEN TO ANYONES INTERPRETATION…anyones…popes and priests are no more picked by god than are protestant pastors…no body has any special dispensation to hijack a persons spiritual life…nobody…ever…fd

 

[Derek_24ca]

It’s not an “either/or” situation, in the Confessional. Both the priest and God are in there, together, hearing your Confession. The priest is being used by God to let you know in clear language, what you need to do, and that you are forgiven (or not, according to the binding and loosing that is given to him through the Apostles by Jesus Christ.)

WHy confess to a priest? God himself will hear you if you confess to him alone. Also, about marriage preparation in the Catholic Church, how can a priest act as a marriage counselor and help to prepare couples if they are not allowed to marry? Where is their experience as a spouse?

 

[jargon631]

It’s generally accepted historic fact…

***me…***accepted by whom?..the world consists of more than just the rc…if its historic, than it should have corroborating documentation from outside the rc…right?

we have the records too, of the early Christians (who were Catholic)

***me…***really?..so in a.d. one the rc sprang into being?..as the catholic church?..fully formed and ready to go?..you would have to show me some ACTUAL DOCUMENTATION

and their apostolic lines from Peter and others. The Pope is the successor of St. Peter, who received authority to tend the flock of Christ (the Catholic Church)…

***me…***really?..so the borgias were st. pete’s successors?..what about the pope who helped the nazi’s escape?..did his authority come from god. too?..if thats the case then it’s no wonder that i’m not a christian

Not all doctrines are in the Bible, the Bible is only one part of the larger Deposit of Faith

***me…***hmmm…are you telling me that rc policy is extra-biblical?..what do you use if not the bible?..thats the only “word of god” that i know of…fd

 

[peary]

I don’t think it was His intention, actually. The old saying - "God proposes; man disposes."

 

[jmcrae]

WHy confess to a priest? God himself will hear you if you confess to him alone. Also, about marriage preparation in the Catholic Church, how can a priest act as a marriage counselor and help to prepare couples if they are not allowed to marry? Where is their experience as a spouse?

By that logic, only the desperately ill should become doctors, only the insane should become psychiatrists, and only divorced people should do family law.

Priests know about marriage because they know a lot of people who are married (including their own parents), and because they make a study of the subject when they are at school, studying for the priesthood.

I am a married person, but I’m pretty sure that not all marriages are exactly like mine, and I’m very sure that there are people out there experiencing problems that I will never have.