Why do you want Catholic Communion??????!!??!?!

[Peter_J]

My good friend is a woman Presbyterian elder in her Church and she is really upset
she can’t Commune in the Catholic Church because her husband can Commune in her Church.

I got the very same complaint from an Episcopalian 15 years ago, “you can receive at my church but I can’t receive at yours” – the underlying assumption being that “can receive” only entails permission from the minister’s church and not from the communicant’s church.

 

[ConstantineTG]

My good friend is a woman Presbyterian elder in her Church and she is really upset
she can’t Commune in the Catholic Church because her husband can Commune in her Church.

I thank our non Catholic friends for sharing the different views on this issue for it helps me to come from a point that acknowledges her desire to do so, not just what may seem the legalistic issues of it all.

I’ve heard the same argument and frustration from some Catholics saying that Orthodox can commune in your Church but they can’t commune in ours.

 

[DAML72]

So much speculation about the mind of a Protestant and the prevailing sense of entitlement - did any of you ever stop to think that they don’t know any better? That they don’t have a handle on the Catholic understanding of Communion and the requirements for receiving the Eucharist?

As far as questioning why anyone would want to ‘commune’ with others they don’t agree with - forgive my ignorance, but is Communion not between an individual and Christ? I was raised in the Reformed Church (primarily Calvinistic) and, while we did not ascribe to Transubstantiation, my understanding of communion was that Christ was present, that it was a holy moment between he and I, and that I was to confess and, through communion, was cleansed of my sin.

Admittedly, the teaching is a bit confusing, as first communion in the Reformed Church (as I remember) is not a sacrament, but is reserved for a certain age after preparation. It is also practice that, prior to each communion, which occurs about 7 times a year, the pastor, in conjunction with the elders, will have a discussion about the spiritual health of the congregation and any concerns about members who are in a state of serious sin are addressed. That said, all Believers are invited to the communion table.

I was also raised in a small town with at least 4 churches that had a pretty ecumenical relationship - went to vacation bible school at the Lutheran Church and other youth activities at the Catholic Church, many of the different Easter services were mixed - sunrise service with the Reformed Pastor, Maundy Thursday ecumenical service at the Catholic church, etc. At some point, don’t recall when - perhaps at a funeral or other service, I would have taken communion at the Lutheran Church and, for some reason, thought that maybe I had at the Catholic church (thinking now I’m confusing receiving a wafer at a Lutheran church with receiving at a Catholic church - I was a kid). Anyway - this is all to give background to why I, when I found myself living in a primarily Catholic country, with no access to communion at a Reformed church or other equivalent protestant denomination, was quite hurt when I was told I was not able to receive communion in the only Church in town. I did not know anything about Transubstantiation or that people are kept from communion for the protection of their own souls, etc.

All that I felt ‘entitled’ to was special time with my Lord - aren’t we all ‘entitled’ to that?

 

[tskrobacz]

I doesn’t; this just happens to be the only thread that you and I are both posting on.

Ok, thanks for clarifying.

 

[Peter_J]

So much speculation about the mind of a Protestant and the prevailing sense of entitlement - did any of you ever stop to think that they don’t know any better? That they don’t have a handle on the Catholic understanding of Communion and the requirements for receiving the Eucharist?

As far as questioning why anyone would want to ‘commune’ with others they don’t agree with - forgive my ignorance, but is Communion not between an individual and Christ? I was raised in the Reformed Church (primarily Calvinistic) and, while we did not ascribe to Transubstantiation, my understanding of communion was that Christ was present, that it was a holy moment between he and I, and that I was to confess and, through communion, was cleansed of my sin.

Admittedly, the teaching is a bit confusing, as first communion in the Reformed Church (as I remember) is not a sacrament, but is reserved for a certain age after preparation. It is also practice that, prior to each communion, which occurs about 7 times a year, the pastor, in conjunction with the elders, will have a discussion about the spiritual health of the congregation and any concerns about members who are in a state of serious sin are addressed. That said, all Believers are invited to the communion table.

I was also raised in a small town with at least 4 churches that had a pretty ecumenical relationship - went to vacation bible school at the Lutheran Church and other youth activities at the Catholic Church, many of the different Easter services were mixed - sunrise service with the Reformed Pastor, Maundy Thursday ecumenical service at the Catholic church, etc. At some point, don’t recall when - perhaps at a funeral or other service, I would have taken communion at the Lutheran Church and, for some reason, thought that maybe I had at the Catholic church (thinking now I’m confusing receiving a wafer at a Lutheran church with receiving at a Catholic church - I was a kid). Anyway - this is all to give background to why I, when I found myself living in a primarily Catholic country, with no access to communion at a Reformed church or other equivalent protestant denomination, was quite hurt when I was told I was not able to receive communion in the only Church in town. I did not know anything about Transubstantiation or that people are kept from communion for the protection of their own souls, etc.

All that I felt ‘entitled’ to was special time with my Lord - aren’t we all ‘entitled’ to that?

Good post, DAML72. From the Catholic p.o.v., your situation did fulfill one requirement for intercommunion – namely, lack of availability of a minister of your own denomination. The thing is, that isn’t the only requirement. (And, no, I wouldn’t call the feeling you described “entitlement”, at least not in the negative sense it has been used on this thread.)

 

[ConstantineTG]

Which is odd? That the Catholics allow Orthodox to commune? Or that some Catholics are frustrated they cannot commune in the Orthodox Church?

 

[SteveVH]

As far as questioning why anyone would want to ‘commune’ with others they don’t agree with - forgive my ignorance, but is Communion not between an individual and Christ? I was raised in the Reformed Church (primarily Calvinistic) and, while we did not ascribe to Transubstantiation, my understanding of communion was that Christ was present, that it was a holy moment between he and I, and that I was to confess and, through communion, was cleansed of my sin.

Communion is not just between an individual and Christ. It is between Christ and his Bride, the Church. It is also between you and me as believers. We literally have the blood of Christ running through our veins and become true brothers and sisters with each other and the Lord. Communion makes us all one, so it is not just between me and Jesus. This is a concept that may be new to many Protestants who hold to the “its just me and Jesus” point of view.

 

[concretecamper]

Which is odd? That the Catholics allow Orthodox to commune? Or that some Catholics are frustrated they cannot commune in the Orthodox Church?

Haha…I have never heard of a Roman Catholic frustrated over that.

 

[jmcrae]

I’ve heard the same argument and frustration from some Catholics saying that Orthodox can commune in your Church but they can’t commune in ours.

I have no idea why a Roman Catholic would want to receive Holy Communion in a church that is not in union with Rome - it makes zero sense, unless it is the “cool” factor of receiving from an Eastern priest - which they can do at any Eastern Rite Catholic Church, anyway.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Haha…I have never heard of a Roman Catholic frustrated over that.

There’s a bunch here on CAF. I think the frustration is more on why isn’t the same courtesy extended by the Orthodox Church.

 

[SteveVH]

There’s a bunch here on CAF. I think the frustration is more on why isn’t the same courtesy extended by the Orthodox Church.

I have to say that I completely agree with jmcrae as to why a Catholic in communion with Rome would want to receive in a church that is not in communion with Rome. It really doesn’t make sense. Before I came to CAF I had a very skewed view of the EO. When one considers the official stance of Rome, according to CCC, you would think we would be slapping each other on the back as we walk down the road to unity. I think a lot of Catholics are under that impression and when they find the reality that the EO Churches could basically care less what Rome does it’s kind of a rude awakening and that is where a lot of this attitude comes from.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I have to say that I completely agree with jmcrae as to why a Catholic in communion with Rome would want to receive in a church that is not in communion with Rome. It really doesn’t make sense. Before I came to CAF I had a very skewed view of the EO. When one considers the official stance of Rome, according to CCC, you would think we would be slapping each other on the back as we walk down the road to unity. I think a lot of Catholics are under that impression and when they find the reality that the EO Churches could basically care less what Rome does it’s kind of a rude awakening and that is where a lot of this attitude comes from.

I think some people miss the fact that we are not under one governance. Funny thing is there is a secular example that can be used. Foreign residents of the United State (the Green Card holders) can enter Canada without a visa even if the carry a passport from a country ordinarily required to have a visa to enter Canada. Their Green Card allows them entry into the US. On the other hand, foreign residents in Canada who carry passports from countries required by the US to have a visa, still needs to have a US tourist visa to enter the US to visit, even if they have their Canadian Permanent Resident Card. Only Canadian passport holders are exempt from a visa. So it is kind of like that, Canada has its own government and its own laws and makes its own policies. While there are treaties that ensure issues laws are mutual and beneficial to both, each country can still issue policies that may not be matched by the other side. The Catholic Church’s policy on Communion is hers alone and does not command the Orthodox Church how they should legislate the discipline around their Communion. Besides, the Orthodox Church never asked the Pope to give them Communion, so we don’t have to open up our chalice to you guys.

 

[believerdoc]

If the Real Presence of God is not in the Eucharist then where else is God also absent? How can it be that in him we live and move and have our being and yet he is absent from any aspect of life?

Where can I go from your Spirit?
Where can I flee from your presence?
8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there;
if I make my bed in the depths, you are there.
9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn,
if I settle on the far side of the sea,
10 even there your hand will guide me,
your right hand will hold me fast.

Psalm 139

God is everywhere and Protestants accept and believe that God is also present when we receive The Lord’s Supper. That is not an issue! The belief that the majority of Protestants do not adhere to is that Christ is physically present under the sacramental signs of bread and wine; that the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity are contained or could be contained in the elements of Communion nor contained in a Tabernacle. God is present in every aspect of life and very much present in Communion; we just do not believe in that Presence in the same manner as our Catholic brothers and sisters.

 

[SteveVH]

I think some people miss the fact that we are not under one governance. Funny thing is there is a secular example that can be used. Foreign residents of the United State (the Green Card holders) can enter Canada without a visa even if the carry a passport from a country ordinarily required to have a visa to enter Canada. Their Green Card allows them entry into the US. On the other hand, foreign residents in Canada who carry passports from countries required by the US to have a visa, still needs to have a US tourist visa to enter the US to visit, even if they have their Canadian Permanent Resident Card. Only Canadian passport holders are exempt from a visa. So it is kind of like that, Canada has its own government and its own laws and makes its own policies. While there are treaties that ensure issues laws are mutual and beneficial to both, each country can still issue policies that may not be matched by the other side. The Catholic Church’s policy on Communion is hers alone and does not command the Orthodox Church how they should legislate the discipline around their Communion. Besides, the Orthodox Church never asked the Pope to give them Communion, so we don’t have to open up our chalice to you guys.

Great explanation!

 

[Peter_J]

Haha…I have never heard of a Roman Catholic frustrated over that.

That’s understandable. In my experience, it’s usually Eastern Catholics who are upset by that.

There’s a bunch here on CAF. I think the frustration is more on why isn’t the same courtesy extended by the Orthodox Church.

Right, a reciprocity argument. Usually then the Orthodox point out that Catholics don’t reciprocate the inter-communion offer from Anglicans. Then it became a matter of “You use the same reasoning on us that we use on Anglicans?”

 

[jmcrae]

Where can I go from your Spirit?
Where can I flee from your presence?
8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there;
if I make my bed in the depths, you are there.
9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn,
if I settle on the far side of the sea,
10 even there your hand will guide me,
your right hand will hold me fast.

Psalm 139

God is everywhere and Protestants accept and believe that God is also present when we receive The Lord’s Supper. That is not an issue! The belief that the majority of Protestants do not adhere to is that Christ is physically present under the sacramental signs of bread and wine; that the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity are contained or could be contained in the elements of Communion nor contained in a Tabernacle. God is present in every aspect of life and very much present in Communion; we just do not believe in that Presence in the same manner as our Catholic brothers and sisters.

And yet, He could be contained in Mary’s ovum?

 

[tskrobacz]

Where can I go from your Spirit?
Where can I flee from your presence?
8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there;
if I make my bed in the depths, you are there.
9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn,
if I settle on the far side of the sea,
10 even there your hand will guide me,
your right hand will hold me fast.

Psalm 139

God is everywhere and Protestants accept and believe that God is also present when we receive The Lord’s Supper. That is not an issue! The belief that the majority of Protestants do not adhere to is that Christ is physically present under the sacramental signs of bread and wine; that the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity are contained or could be contained in the elements of Communion nor contained in a Tabernacle. God is present in every aspect of life and very much present in Communion; we just do not believe in that Presence in the same manner as our Catholic brothers and sisters.

The “Christ” is the very bodying forth of spirit and the material universe as revealed in Jesus. From the moment of the Big Bang God’s fiat…“Let it be” forever joined spirit in his physical creation…why is it you exclude that possibility in one place but not everywhere?

 

[flameburns623]

May have been pointed out already, but for some, the partaking of communion is a sign of CHRISTIAN union, not of institutional union.

Most Protestant ecclesial communions do not see doctrinal unity as a sign of Christian unity. More precisely–they see a fairly narrow band of doctrinal issues which they deem “essentials”, for which one must break communion.

Outside of that fairly limited number of areas, most other things are non-essentials. Whether you believe in sacraments or see baptism, or holy communion, as “signs” or “ordinances” is, for many Protestants, a non-essential.

Calvinism versus Arminianism, Covenant theology versus dispensationalism, congregationalist church structure versus a hierarchical church structure, etcetera–all are non-essentials in this view.

To refuse communion over these “peripheral” issues is in the view of many, to imply that non-Catholics are effectively non-Christians.

 

[Deana83]

Well, it’s understandable that he wouldn’t have known how to answer that, but I think he should have redirected the question to the parish priest. (Or there’s always the explanation in the missalette, but understandably he might not have known about it.)

Btw, where are coming from? (ELCA, perhaps?) In any case, a (belated) welcome to the forum.

Where am I coming from? Well, Methodist as a child, Lutheran as an adult, and I’ve visited a few non-denominational churches. I was never firmly affiliated with any particular denomination, although I was baptized and considered myself a Christian. I’ve even explored some of the New Age philosophies at certain points in my life but they felt kind of empty and meaningless. My plan was to eventually pull my husband away from the church so we could attend a Methodist church together but I think the Holy Spirit had other plans for me. Presently I’m attending RCIA and researching the faith. I love what I’ve learned so far, wish I had made this leap years ago. Thanks for the welcome–better late than never.

 

[Carlan]

Where am I coming from? Well, Methodist as a child, Lutheran as an adult, and I’ve visited a few non-denominational churches. I was never firmly affiliated with any particular denomination, although I was baptized and considered myself a Christian. I’ve even explored some of the New Age philosophies at certain points in my life but they felt kind of empty and meaningless. My plan was to eventually pull my husband away from the church so we could attend a Methodist church together but I think the Holy Spirit had other plans for me. Presently I’m attending RCIA and researching the faith. I love what I’ve learned so far, wish I had made this leap years ago. Thanks for the welcome–better late than never.

Absolutely, and it is our prayer for all God children seeking his Truth.Peace, Carlan