M
Martwen
Guest
“Why do you worship wafers?”
This one is a more difficult question to answer. To make the case for this we must first discuss the true nature of the Eucharist. This will start with weather or not transubstantiation occurs. What is transubstantiation? It is where the host or “wafer” becomes all of what Christ is and will ever be but remain in the appearance of the host. Why do we believe this? Is this in scripture and if it is where? I would like to find some areas that scripture that show proof of the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist.
If we look at John 6:35-71 If Jesus did not mean that he was going to give us his true flesh to eat then why would he have let some of his disciples leave with out teaching them that he meant that he would provide this in a symbolic way? He would not have done this. Jesus would have explained, like he had many times before, what he actually meant. He states in order the have life (Salvation) we need to eat his flesh and drink his blood. How can this be done without going against the teachings of God. He had to give as a why to do this and it is the transubstantiation. Where else can we find examples? One is 1 Corr 10:16; The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? A second is For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes. Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself. 1Corr 11:23-29. How can we be guilty of profaning the body and blood of Christ if it is only a symbol? We can not!
Is there any places in scripture where we could find an area where Jesus was talking symbolically? We will look at Matthew 16:5-12; “When the disciples reached the other side, they had forgotten to bring any bread. Jesus said to them, “Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sad’ducees.” And they discussed it among themselves, saying, “We brought no bread.” But Jesus, aware of this, said, “O men of little faith, why do you discuss among yourselves the fact that you have no bread? Do you not yet perceive? Do you not remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets you gathered? Or the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets you gathered? How is it that you fail to perceive that I did not speak about bread? Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sad’ducees.” Then they understood that he did not tell them to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sad’ducees.” You can see here how Jesus explains what was meant when he was speaking in a symbolic way. You can look back and see Jesus did not do this when his disciples left him.
From this we can clearly see that during the last supper where Jesus told the disciples to do this in remembrance of me, he was giving them the command to continue with the last supper he wanted to give us the gift of himself. Through this gift we are able to receive his body and blood and have eternal life. We can also see the after he rose from the dead and meat the disciples on the road to Damascus. They did not recognize him until he broke the bread and offered the Eucharist to them.
So as you can see all that Jesus ever was and ever will be is contained in that simple “wafer”. We are not worshiping a simple wafer we are worshiping Jesus who is present in that wafer.
This one is a more difficult question to answer. To make the case for this we must first discuss the true nature of the Eucharist. This will start with weather or not transubstantiation occurs. What is transubstantiation? It is where the host or “wafer” becomes all of what Christ is and will ever be but remain in the appearance of the host. Why do we believe this? Is this in scripture and if it is where? I would like to find some areas that scripture that show proof of the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist.
If we look at John 6:35-71 If Jesus did not mean that he was going to give us his true flesh to eat then why would he have let some of his disciples leave with out teaching them that he meant that he would provide this in a symbolic way? He would not have done this. Jesus would have explained, like he had many times before, what he actually meant. He states in order the have life (Salvation) we need to eat his flesh and drink his blood. How can this be done without going against the teachings of God. He had to give as a why to do this and it is the transubstantiation. Where else can we find examples? One is 1 Corr 10:16; The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? A second is For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes. Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself. 1Corr 11:23-29. How can we be guilty of profaning the body and blood of Christ if it is only a symbol? We can not!
Is there any places in scripture where we could find an area where Jesus was talking symbolically? We will look at Matthew 16:5-12; “When the disciples reached the other side, they had forgotten to bring any bread. Jesus said to them, “Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sad’ducees.” And they discussed it among themselves, saying, “We brought no bread.” But Jesus, aware of this, said, “O men of little faith, why do you discuss among yourselves the fact that you have no bread? Do you not yet perceive? Do you not remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets you gathered? Or the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets you gathered? How is it that you fail to perceive that I did not speak about bread? Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sad’ducees.” Then they understood that he did not tell them to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sad’ducees.” You can see here how Jesus explains what was meant when he was speaking in a symbolic way. You can look back and see Jesus did not do this when his disciples left him.
From this we can clearly see that during the last supper where Jesus told the disciples to do this in remembrance of me, he was giving them the command to continue with the last supper he wanted to give us the gift of himself. Through this gift we are able to receive his body and blood and have eternal life. We can also see the after he rose from the dead and meat the disciples on the road to Damascus. They did not recognize him until he broke the bread and offered the Eucharist to them.
So as you can see all that Jesus ever was and ever will be is contained in that simple “wafer”. We are not worshiping a simple wafer we are worshiping Jesus who is present in that wafer.