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theCardinalbird
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Are you trying to prove Protestantism? Are you telling me there is more than one interpretation of certain scriptural verses?
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Why does 1 Corinthians 6:9 say that homosexuals will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven?
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JasonL69
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I’m just showing you how the numbers of Revelation connect. If you can accept that then maybe you’re ready to see how the next level connects to the base. (As far as I am aware nobody has done this before…)
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vsedriver
Guest
the math you cite is irrelevant. Revelation is not about Math. There are no ‘hidden’ messages to decipher. Revelations can only be understood in the context of the Church.I’m just showing you how the numbers of Revelation connect. If you can accept that then maybe you’re ready to see how the next level connects to the base. (As far as I am aware nobody has done this before…)
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FrDavid96
Guest
Paul is saying that sinners will not enter the Kingdom. Those who will enter the Kingdom will be the former sinners, meaning the repentant.
God is not going to announce on the Last Day “Come into the Kingdom all you thieves.” or 'Come into the Kingdom all you idolaters." etc. etc. There is not going to be some special room in heaven where swindlers can gather and celebrate their former lives of sin. That is what Paul means.
God is not going to announce on Judgement Day “Come into heaven all you sinners.” But instead will say “Come in all you who have repented.”
Instead, He is going to welcome-in all those who repented of their sins–even those sins in Paul’s list.
The passage is not intended (as is often misunderstood) to mean that if a person commits one or more of the sins in Paul’s list that such a person is forever banned from heaven. No, not at all.
Paul is saying that no sinner is going to be admitted, but instead only the repentant former-sinner will be admitted.
The list of sins is not actually important all by themselves. He is merely giving a list of serious sins by way of examples.
Paul is criticizing members of the community who have returned to their former ways of sin. That is the key to this chapter. That’s what it is all about.
He is saying “turn aside from your former ways” do not live as sinners, but instead live as people who have been redeemed and forgiven, as people who are worthy to enter the Kingdom.
He is warning them against going backwards and living the sinful lives that they lived before they received the Gospel. The list of sins is nothing more than a list of examples.
God is not going to announce on the Last Day “Come into the Kingdom all you thieves.” or 'Come into the Kingdom all you idolaters." etc. etc. There is not going to be some special room in heaven where swindlers can gather and celebrate their former lives of sin. That is what Paul means.
God is not going to announce on Judgement Day “Come into heaven all you sinners.” But instead will say “Come in all you who have repented.”
Instead, He is going to welcome-in all those who repented of their sins–even those sins in Paul’s list.
The passage is not intended (as is often misunderstood) to mean that if a person commits one or more of the sins in Paul’s list that such a person is forever banned from heaven. No, not at all.
Paul is saying that no sinner is going to be admitted, but instead only the repentant former-sinner will be admitted.
The list of sins is not actually important all by themselves. He is merely giving a list of serious sins by way of examples.
Paul is criticizing members of the community who have returned to their former ways of sin. That is the key to this chapter. That’s what it is all about.
He is saying “turn aside from your former ways” do not live as sinners, but instead live as people who have been redeemed and forgiven, as people who are worthy to enter the Kingdom.
He is warning them against going backwards and living the sinful lives that they lived before they received the Gospel. The list of sins is nothing more than a list of examples.
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Spyridon
Guest
Numerology is condemned as superstition by Holy Mother Church.
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JasonL69
Guest
And for 2000 years it still remains a mystery to the Church.the math you cite is irrelevant. Revelation is not about Math. There are no ‘hidden’ messages to decipher. Revelations can only be understood in the context of the Church
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JasonL69
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Mathematics is not condemned. Numerology is.
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Spyridon
Guest
The way you were trying to use numbers to coax a hidden meaning out of Scripture is classic numerology.
“Numerology is the study of mystical relationships between numbers and events. The Catholic Church has historically believed in the significance of certain numbers, but ultimately rejects the systematic divination associated with numerology.”
Numerology is condemned as a form of imprudent superstition at best, and as an occult practice at worst.
“Numerology is the study of mystical relationships between numbers and events. The Catholic Church has historically believed in the significance of certain numbers, but ultimately rejects the systematic divination associated with numerology.”
Numerology is condemned as a form of imprudent superstition at best, and as an occult practice at worst.
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Spyridon
Guest
According to whom?
Revelation is a very well understood Book in the Church.
Entire books are written about it. Commentaries on each passage are written on it.
Where in the world are you getting this stuff from? Making it up as you go?
Try Dr. Scott Hahn and his nearly 200 page book “The Lambs Supper: the Mass as Heaven on Earth”, he goes in depth into the book of Revelation in it.
To claim the book of Revelation is a “mystery” to the Church after 2,000 years is to be ignorant of 2,000 years of Christian study of the book of Revelation.
Maybe it’s a mystery to you; it is not a mystery to the Church who wrote the book, canonized the book, transmitted the book, spent thousands of hours meditating on the book, and wrote thousands of pages about the book.
Revelation is a very well understood Book in the Church.
Entire books are written about it. Commentaries on each passage are written on it.
Where in the world are you getting this stuff from? Making it up as you go?
Try Dr. Scott Hahn and his nearly 200 page book “The Lambs Supper: the Mass as Heaven on Earth”, he goes in depth into the book of Revelation in it.
To claim the book of Revelation is a “mystery” to the Church after 2,000 years is to be ignorant of 2,000 years of Christian study of the book of Revelation.
Maybe it’s a mystery to you; it is not a mystery to the Church who wrote the book, canonized the book, transmitted the book, spent thousands of hours meditating on the book, and wrote thousands of pages about the book.
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JasonL69
Guest
Only a few can enter the Kingdom, Father.Paul is criticizing members of the community who have returned to their former ways of sin. That is the key to this chapter. That’s what it is all about.
He is saying “turn aside from your former ways” do not live as sinners, but instead live as people who have been redeemed and forgiven, as people who are worthy to enter the Kingdom.
Luke 13 23-25
Lord,” someone asked Him, “will only a few people be saved?” Jesus answered, “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able. After the master of the house gets up and shuts the door, you will stand outside knocking and saying, ‘Lord, open the door for us.’ But he will reply, ‘I do not know where you are from.’…
They are cited as the 144,000 who are not defiled by women and are virgins (Rev 14)
Gay men are not defiled by women.
Lesbians do not lie with men and therefore are ‘virgins’…
Now, is that not being progressive and not going backwards?
I have given reason after reason for the Church to change its stance on LGBT in this post alone. There are two sides to every double edged sword from the mouth of a deity (Rev 1). So far the Church has opted for the easy path, that which marginalises. It always works. Separate the wheat from the tares.
Yet if you have wisdom you will know that without the tares to burn you cannot bake the dough from which the wheat is made. Only those who use wheat and tares wisely together can achieve the Bread.
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JasonL69
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I just put the numbers in the book together… 7, 3.5, 42, 1260 are easy: they revolve around 360… But I included the 1600, 666 and 12000 because they are supposed to be connected. It’s mathematics. I’m not inferring anything else, no dark meaning, no portent based on the numbers. And if the Church failed to recognise the connections that is not my problem.
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Muzhik
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And that will be its downfall…
Dude, two times? Really? Do you honestly think this is the first time the Church has faced challenges such as these? You need only look at the history of the Arian heresy. Arian taught that Jesus wasn’t true God AND true man; but some combination of divine and material – i.e., simply another created being. This heresy spread throughout the Church, and in fact came to be held by a majority of the bishops. It was only the faith of the laity that beat back this heresy.And that will be its downfall…
Before you proclaim the downfall of the Church, you should check out two things:
- the growth in the number of Dominican nuns, both the cloistered and the ones like the Nashville Dominicans (aka Dominican Sisters of St. Cecilia); and
- comparisons between the diocesan seminaries in Los Angeles and Lincoln, Nebraska. Lincoln is by far the smaller diocese in terms of numbers. Yet her bishops have maintained orthodoxy in faith and practice. Los Angeles has been “more conforming to the world”, shall we say. The Lincoln seminary has between 10 and 15 priest in training. LA has a little over 20, and between a quarter and a third of those are international students who will be going back to their native lands after ordination. If the numbers of seminarians in LA were in proportion to the population as is in Lincoln, the LA seminary would have between 100 and 150 seminarians (depending on how you count the populations.)
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Muzhik
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RE: the numbers; you should check out the book “Temple at the End of Time”, regarding Newton’s examinations of the numbers used in the Bible.
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JasonL69
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Newton was LGBT. His opinions don’t count, surely? He was a sinner.RE: the numbers; you should check out the book “Temple at the End of Time”, regarding Newton’s examinations of the numbers used in the Bible.
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JasonL69
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Ah… Lincoln, Nebraska… Isn’t that Knieval country?comparisons between the diocesan seminaries in Los Angeles and Lincoln, Nebraska. Lincoln is by far the smaller diocese in terms of numbers. Yet her bishops have maintained orthodoxy in faith and practice. Los Angeles has been “more conforming to the world”, shall we say. The Lincoln seminary has between 10 and 15 priest in training
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Prodigal_Son
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Jason, speaking as a scholar of ancient Greek, I can tell you that Google translate just isn’t a source of reliable information, to put it mildly. I don’t have to appeal to the Church’s authority to know that you don’t know what you’re talking about.
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theCardinalbird
Guest
Just for the record. Are you trying to change the Church’s stance on “gay marriage?”I have given reason after reason for the Church to change its stance on LGBT in this post alone.
Because it’s impossible
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superblue
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come on , did humanity really need anyone to explain if unbaptised babies that died went to heaven ?
An the absurdity that it took the church some 2000 years to figure it out.
But lets run with the stupidity and ask, so now what happened to the babies who were in limbo before the year 2000, just kidding. They were never in limbo to begin with, babies go straight to heaven like it or not.
An the absurdity that it took the church some 2000 years to figure it out.
But lets run with the stupidity and ask, so now what happened to the babies who were in limbo before the year 2000, just kidding. They were never in limbo to begin with, babies go straight to heaven like it or not.
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Muzhik
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Ahh, I’m sorry, what? I mean, I don’t know what you mean by that.Ah… Lincoln, Nebraska… Isn’t that Knieval country?
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Muzhik
Guest
Jason, that is SO trolling. Are you sure you don’t have a bridge somewhere with your name on it?Newton was LGBT. His opinions don’t count, surely? He was a sinner.
For the record, I found the book interesting because before Newton became known for mathematics he was the Royal Geometer. This meant he was responsible for setting the standards of weights and measures in the kingdom.
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