Why does Catholic Bishop Muskens call God, Allah?

[apophasis]

I have no problems with the fact that peace is found in Christ and peace is His domain…my responsibility is to follow him, not create fictional rhetoric to combat a non-Christian religion.

Well, It seems the Bishop thinks the way to combat (or appease) a non-Christian religion is through the old adage “If you can’t beat em, join em.” Let’s just all adopt “Allah” as the universal word for God (Gal. 5:9).

You said it yourself, CM, your responsibility is to follow Him. Remember, “Allah has no Son.” To use the word “Allah” as the universal word for God is by definition the creation of “fictional rhetoric” (confused, empty talk).

 

[Church_Militant]

The 'ol “Is this your idea of witnessing” line.

It seems that many "evangelicals ": or “fundamentalists” can’t simply present the Gospel of Christ without some sort of rhetorical oppositional attack posture (for lack of a better term). That is what I mean. If you cannot present the Gospel of Christ without it then IMV there must be something wrong with your thinking concerning the Gospel and the work of the Holy Spirit. If the Gospel is true and the Holy Spirit is faithful to bring it to fruition in the hearts it is sown in, then, unless an apologetic discussion arises then why play some sort of compare and contrast “game” that really does nothing more than deride the other person’s faith (or lack thereof)? Where is that exemplified in the New Testament? I certainly have not found it.

Islam is a replacement theology religion of Judeo/Christianity. Again, it attempts to replace everything Jewish, the scriptures, the land, all archeaological proof of their existence in the land. Once the Judaic roots are gone, Christianity in Islams eyes is just another religion that is acheiving temporal worldy peace and then it can make vanilla out of it’s gospel. Jesus is a Palestinean, Mary is venerated by both, Allah is the same God, some stories in the OT are just fables, why quibble over those details?

Again… an oppositional approach, that brings nothing worthy of Christ to the discussion but lots of egotistical argumentation. Who is supposed to be lifted up here? Our ability to contend and argue and deride, (all carnal abilities according to the New Testament) or Our lord Jesus Christ thorough the Gospel? I know which one I will deliver every time.

How would you “witness” to a replacement theology?

I don’t witness to a theology… I witness to people. Human beings that have feelings and dignity regardless of whatever religion (or lack thereof), circumstances in life, or past sins, they happen to currently be part of. The task of believers is to share the Gospel of Christ, while the task of the Holy Spirit is to bring fruits from that sharing.

As I said before… this is one somewhat errant Dutch bishop, who neither speaks for the Catholic Church, nor even for all the Catholics in his diocese. It’s gotten more press than it is worth, but as usual every anti-Catholic around rushes to judgment, calling all Catholics to account for his error and condemning it as if it defines the Catholic faith.
None of which is even remotely true…

If this is how you would share your faith with us Catholics, I think you’ll find us less than receptive. I know that I am.

 

[Church_Militant]

CHECK OUT THIS FEED ON THE TRUE INTENTS OF ISLAM. AN INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST WHO WENT UNDERCOVER IN THE MOSQUES OF GREAT BRITAIN WHAT IS REALLY BEING TAUGHT IN THE MOSQUES CONCERNING ALLAH VERSUS WHAT THEY SAY TO THE PUBLIC CONCERNING THEIR FATIH.

video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2668560761490749816

1. In case you are unaware of the fact, pasting in all caps is considered rudely shouting and actually violates the Forum Rules here.
2. Your video report is all well and good, and I doubt anyone here is blind to the fundamentalist rhetoric that the Imam is preaching, but he does not cite the Quran in support of his statements does he?
3. Therefore, (and I know that I am not wrong in saying this), he does not speak for all Moslems anymore than a single Dutch Bishop speaks for all Catholics. In fact there a great many Moslems who do not share his thinking at all. His fundamentalism is no more universal than your own is among Christians (Thanks Be To God in both cases).

(Now if the British government has some issue with that mosque and it’s message, I’m sure they are big enough to deal with that themselves. In fact, I’m surprised they haven’t deported that guy. After all, he’s an American, not a Brit, or even an Arab.)

So…Is he representative of all members of the Islamic faith?
No.

 

[apophasis]

Church Militant:

As I said before… this is one somewhat errant Dutch bishop, who neither speaks for the Catholic Church, nor even for all the Catholics in his diocese. It’s gotten more press than it is worth, but as usual every anti-Catholic around rushes to judgment, calling all Catholics to account for his error and condemning it as if it defines the Catholic faith. None of which is even remotely true…

If this is how you would share your faith with us Catholics, I think you’ll find us less than receptive. I know that I am.

Actually, we would like to see you take a stand for the faith, CM. What we’re looking for is for Catholics to take a righteous stand on this compromising issue (like Paul with Peter) and not just rally around your misguided Bishop simply because he’s Catholic.

It’s not “anti-Catholic” to make a judgment call against error or the person who is pushing/promoting it. No one’s calling “all Catholics” to account here. We would like to see, however, all Catholics call one of their own Bishops to account and not just sweep it under the rug by calling him “a somewhat errant Dutch Bishop.” This man should get lots of press. He’s not just some lowly monk (although even a monk can cause a huge ruckus - Luther ). He’s a Bishop, a “successor of Peter.” A representative of Rome.

I for one will be waiting to see how Rome responds - even your CA apologists.

 

[Ecoclimber]

FIRST OF ALL, I KNOW THE FACT ABOUT LARGE CAPS BUT IT DOESN’T TAKE INTO ACCOUNT PEOPLE WHO HAVE A HARD TIME SEEING THE SCREEN BECAUSE OF VERY POOR VISION BROUGHT ON BY AGE. I HAVE NO INTENT TO SHOUT BUT IT IS THE ONLY WAY I AM ABLE TO VIEW WHAT I AM WRITING.

THE REASON I INSERTED THE LINK video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2668560761490749816IS TO COUNTERACT THE MESSAGE ON WHAT IMAMS ARE SAYING IN PUBLIC VERSUS WHAT THEY ARE PREACHING AND TEACHING THOUGHT OUT THE MOSQUES IN GREAT BRITAIN NOT JUST IN ONE MOSQUE NOR BY ONE IMAM. APPARENTLY FROM YOUR STATEMENT, MAYBE YOU DIDN’T VIEW THE SAME OR ALL OF THE VIDEO?

FOR INSTANCE, THERE IS A STATEMENT FROM THE GOVERNMENT OF SAUDI ARABIA ON THE VIDEO AT 33.15 MINUTES CONCERNING THEIR DISALLOWANCE TO EXTREME AND RADICAL ISLAM AND THEIR RE-EDUCATION OF THEIR SCHOLARS AND IMAMS CONCERNING RADICAL ISLAM. YET, THIS IS REFUTED THROUGHOUT THE TAPE BY SHOWING DIRECT FINANCIAL SUPPORT FROM SAUDI ARABIA, THEIR SHEIKS AND RELIGIOUS ESTABLISHMENT AT 26.15, 26.45, 27.00, 27.39, 42.25, 47.41 MINUTES.

THEY RECEIVE DIRECT TEACHING AND SUPPORT FROM THE ISLAMIC RELIGIOUS ESTABLISHMENT IN SAUDI ARABIA AT 41.18, 35.17 AND 25.09.

THE GRAND MUFTI OF SAUDI ARABIA, The Grand Mufti of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia President of the Committee of Major Scholars and the Centre for Knowledge Based Research and Verdicts 'Abdul-Azeez bin Abdullaa bin Muhammad Aal ash-Shaikh EXPRESSED HIS REAL VIEWS ON ISLAM AT 6.98 MINUTES.

WHAT IS MOST DISTURBING IS THAT THE SO CALLED MUSLIM IMAMS WHO ARE CALLING FOR MULTI CULTURAL AND INTERFAITH DIALOGUE AMONG CHRISTIAN, NON CHRISTIAN AND JEWISH BELIEVERS ARE TEACHING THEIR OWN BELIEVERS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT MESSAGE WITHIN THEIR MOSQUES! THESE SAME IMAMS WHO TALK ABOUT TOLERANCE IN THEIR MESSAGES TO GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS INCLUDING THE PRIME MINISTER AND TO RELIGIOUS LEADERS OF OTHER FAITHS AND TO THE PUBLIC AT LARGE ARE IN FACT, PERPETRATING A GREAT RELIGIOUS DECEPTION AND FRAUD!

FUTHERMORE, THERE IS NO TOLERANCE OF OTHER RELIGIOUS VIEWS ALOWED IN SAUDI ARABIA UNLIKE THE DEMOCRACIES OF THE WEST. WHY DOESN’T ISLAM ALLOW RELIGIOUS FREEDOM IN THEIR COUNTRIES AS WE DO IN THE WEST? HOWEVER, WE IN THE WEST ARE QUITE NAIVE.

THERE IS NO DIFFERENT IN THE ISLAMIC STRATEGY, THEN THE USE OF STRATEGY THAT HITLER PROMOTED THROUGH NAZISM AND ARYANISM TO SUPPORT HIS RISE TO POWER. HIS COMMENTS TO NEVILLE CHAMBERLAIN SPEAKS VOLUMES ON HOW EVIL DECEIVES.

THE EARLY CHURCH FATHERS AND WRITINGS OF THE APOSTLES AND ST. PAUL STATE" TO EARNSTLY CONTEND FOR THE FAITH." CHRUCH FATHERS WROTE EXTENSIVELY AGAINST OTHER IDEOLOGIES AND HERETICAL TEACHING THROUGHOUT THE AGES THAT DISTORT THE FAITH. THEREFORE, THE USE OF ALLAH SHOULD BE ABORHENT TO ALL CATHOLIC BELIEVERS.

25 July 2007

BERLIN (AP) – Pope Benedict XVI’s private secretary warned of the Islamization of Europe and stressed the need for the continent’s Christian roots not to be ignored, in comments released Thursday.

‘‘Attempts to Islamize the west cannot be denied,’’ Monsignor Georg Gaenswein was quoted as saying in an advance copy of the weekly Sueddeutsche Magazin to be published Friday.

‘‘The danger for the identity of Europe that is connected with it should not be ignored out of a wrongly understood respectfulness,’’ the magazine quoted him as saying.

Gaenswein also defended a speech Benedict gave last year linking Islam and violence, saying it was an attempt by the pontiff to ‘‘act against a certain naivety.’’

 

[Contarini]

Obviously! And why do you think that is?

Because Muslim worship uses Arabic, and Muslim theology is based on the Qur’an, also in Arabic!

Could it be that “Allah” is the NAME of their God?

So how do you explain the fact that Arabic-speaking Christians call God “Allah”? This is fatal to what you are saying, so no wonder you ignore it.

You’ve got that right!!! But “fundamentalist” Christians should be required to use the word “Allah” when referring to their God, right?

No. First of all, the bishop wasn’t trying to require anyone to do anything. And in the second place, I think what the bishop is saying is nutty. There’s no reason for non-Arabic-speaking Christians to use the word “Allah,” except perhaps when in direct conversation with Muslims. The idea that we should import an Arabic word into our own worship as a “gesture” to Muslims is indeed political correctness run amok. However, it’s no more than that–it is not introducing the worship of a false god into Christianity, which some of you seem to think.

I know two true believing converts from Islam and they do not call the God who saved them through the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ “Allah.” They clearly know the difference and express it. How tragic it is that you and the Bishop do not.

How tragic it is that you apparently do not think that the Arabic-speaking Christians who existed before Muhammad was born were not “true believers.” If that’s really what you think, I’m not sure I care that much for being what you would call a “true believer.”

Edwin

 

[Church_Militant]

Actually, we would like to see you take a stand for the faith, CM. What we’re looking for is for Catholics to take a righteous stand on this compromising issue (like Paul with Peter) and not just rally around your misguided Bishop simply because he’s Catholic.

Do you honestly think I am concerned about your opinion of my “stand” one way or the other?

No one has rallied around this particular bishop and it is specious of your to assert that anyone has. He has the right to say anything that he pleases because this is a very very long way from a matter of faith and morals, or even a decree from the church.

I could care less what you think about it and I have had my say.

You a-Cs wanna sit here and bash this bad joke of a non-issue, knock yourselves out. All it does is reveal you for the a-Cs that you are…seeking any pitiful little thing to try to bash the Catholic faith.

Frankly… I have no respect left for those who have played this. What? You haven’t got any real issues to discuss…so you want to try to get Catholics all defensive about this?

It’s not "anti-Catholic

" to make a judgment call against error or the person who is pushing/promoting it.So this is your idea of an error worth :crying: about?

I’ve expressed my opinion on the matter quite concisely and I don’t have a reason to discuss it further. I disagree with it. It’s non-binding in anyway at all, and is in fact…a non-issue. Period

No one’s calling "all Catholics

" to account here. We would like to see, however, all Catholics call one of their own Bishops to account and not just sweep it under the rug by calling him "a somewhat errant Dutch Bishop."Who cares?
It’s not our place to call him or anyone else to account for something this weak. The only reason I’m even discussing it with you guys is to allow you to further display the real nature of anti-Catholics, who seek any little thing…regardless of how trivial it is…to bad mouth the Catholic Church. And true to form, you guys have made my case for me in spades, and I appreciate it no end.

This man should get lots of press. He’s not just some lowly monk (although even a monk can cause a huge ruckus - Luther ). He’s a Bishop, a “successor of Peter.” A representative of Rome.

:whacky: :yawn:
Watch carefully…it’s a non-issue…and guess what? No one cares. It’s too trivial to do more than be a good vehicle to manifest the pettiness and biased thinking of every a-C who seeks to make it an issue.

You crybabies won’t even acknowledge that the Arabic name for God is Allah, which I think is one of the most petty and unthinking things that I have ever seen. It’s almost anti-intellectual because it expresses an unwillingness to admit even the rudiments of language. That’s not just weird…it’s wrong.

I for one will be waiting to see how Rome responds - even your CA apologists.

Don’t hold your breath…:juggle:

Call us when ya get a real issue for discussion. I know where some are and I’m off to post on those.

 

[Michael_Francis]

Enough! Thread closed.