Why does Catholic school cost so much?

[PaulinVA]

But this is a largely self inflicted wound. Public schools have taken the cowardly position of leaving behavioral problem kids mainstreamed in regular classes which alters the culture of the classroom and drags the entire class performance down. If the administrations would have the guts to call a spade a spade and tell the parents of bratty kids that their kids must remain in the ‘behavioral’ program until/unless they shape up, then the regular classes would vastly increase in performance. But nobody is willing to do that, so the class bully holds everybody else back. Been there, seen it myself and nobody is going to tell me it isn’t real.

I can’t even begin to think how to address your post. Wow.

Those “bratty” kids that are keeping your precious kiddos down are deserving of compassion and respect. Warehouse them in the “stupid bratty” kid classes and you will tell them that are not worthy of respect or capable of success. If you are pro-life you have to be pro-life for the entire lifetime of the child.

The school voucher proponents do indeed want to siphon on the best students and parents and leave the public system with the troubled kids and those that are profoundly retarded and in need of help. It takes tens of thousands of dollars per pupil to educate these kids - there won’t be enough money left in the system for them. It would be a shame for the smart kids with engaged parents to get their voucher-based education on the backs of the least fortunate.

 

[EasterJoy]

Totally agree with you on that one. I currently attend a small public school, and I just find it so much more enjoyable. I passed up an (almost) full ride at our state’s large public university to come here, and I have to say, I made the right choice. I pretty much know all of the professors in my school (school of engineering, that is), and many of them know me by my first name. All the courses are usually under 30 students (big core classes like Chemistry usually have many more, but nowhere near 100 or 200 like large state universities). I can see my professor almost anytime during their office hours and know that I usually won’t have to wait 2 hours to see them. I don’t feel like a number.

Yes, perhaps I don’t get to work in a huge sophisticated research lab with tons of grants and money flowing out the wazoo. But there’s something to be said when you know the machine shop technician by name, as well as the woman that runs the small lunch cart in the building (for when I just can’t get a real lunch. You know us engineers )

In the end, it all comes down to this: You get out of it what you put into it. Output = (name removed by moderator)ut.

Exactly. I know undergraduates at a huge university who knew the crystallographer and the guys who ran the machine shop and the stockroom, but those were students who got to that big pond fully ready to dive in. They got there ready to work in lab at night and on weekends.

Finding the place that will let you make the most of what you’re willing to put in is the key.

I think the same can be said for school at every level. Even the best parish school is not going to be the best for everyone. I have friends who had some kids in the parish school and others homeschooled; another had one in the parish school and another in the public school. It makes a huge difference when the parent is willing to find the best situation for each of their children.

As the OP says, though, finances can really limit those choices. I’ve also seen that Catholic high schools still tend to be almost completely college-prep in nature. Not many have vocational programs or remedial programs. When you have that, it highlights how important quality in continuing CCD and youth ministries can be for the students in the parish who opt for public school.

The worst of all, IMHO, are the Catholic high schools whose Catholic students don’t avail themselves of the Sacrament of Confirmation. We’re talking a very high percentage. Something is gravely wrong there!!

 

[manualman]

I can’t even begin to think how to address your post. Wow.

Those “bratty” kids that are keeping your precious kiddos down are deserving of compassion and respect. Warehouse them in the “stupid bratty” kid classes and you will tell them that are not worthy of respect or capable of success. If you are pro-life you have to be pro-life for the entire lifetime of the child.

It is not pro-life to maintain a system in which the peformance of entire classes is reduced to the level of the least, so nobody feels bad or is ‘left behind.’ Nevertheless this sort of false compassion is rampant in America today. What every single person is owed is opportunity, not uniformity of outcome. If certain children by their own bad behavior consistently disrupt the learning environment for the other 28 kids in the class, they have to go. I am not willing to sacrifice the good kids for the sake of the rotten ones. The good ones are owed opportunity as much as the problem kids! I’m also well aware that bad kids come from bad parents and it’s a harsh thing to punish them for the incompetence of their parents. But there really isn’t another solution.

This doesn’t mean you lock the problem kids in the boiler room, mind you. You have particular classes and programs for these kids and remind them that if they mend their ways, there is always a way out. This will likely be an unpleasant environment with a fair amount of Lord of the Flies culture. I say that it’s better for the kind of kids who create that environment to be put in one place than to let them create a similar environment for the ENTIRE student population. And, frankly, being around people who treat them the way they treat other kids might just be the education they need as regards to why bully behavior is intolerable.

What I am quite sure of is that the current solution of leaving them in place and allowing a few kids to poision the entire class atmosphere is an approach that all but guarantees failure, punishes the good kids and ultimately doesn’t help the behavior problem kids either. It just “sounds” more compassionate than my approach. I find that I care less about PR all the time.

And don’t talk to me about my “precious kiddos.” I have 6 partially false teeth and a jaw bone destined for early arthritis because a public high school administrator was more interested in ‘maintstreaming’ his serial problem kids than in ensuring he had an environment that fostered safety and honored learning. This in an affluent suburban public school district decades ago! I can only imagine what it is like in the City today. Everybody deserves opportunity. But you can’t provide equal opportunity if you are focusing on equivalent outcomes instead. Bad choices lead to bad consequences. Short circuit that and you are MISeducating kids.

 

[Geist]

Seriously…K - 12 Catholic education costs way too much. In my large Texas city, the Catholic schools all seem to be around $6,500 or more per year. There seems to be a disconnect between what parishes practice and what they preach.

Five week days x 52 weeks in a year= 260 days

6500/260=25.00 a day

Yes, That doesnt include summer so it may come out $30.00 a day or so. If you dont qualify for financial aid thats not a crushing sum.

We have great public schools here so dont need to use the Catholic school.

 

[Bklynguy]

Seriously…K - 12 Catholic education costs way too much. In my large Texas city, the Catholic schools all seem to be around $6,500 or more per year. There seems to be a disconnect between what parishes practice and what they preach.

Catholic education is essentially unattainable for families who, faithful to Catholic teaching, avoided living in sin and married young, were prayerfully open to life and thereby had multiple children, and live on a single income, since one parent stays at home to care for young children. Unless the working parent has a very substantial, very reliable income, they won’t be able to send their kids to Catholic school. Why make Catholic education unattainable for families who practice what the Church teaches? Why the disconnect?

/end rant

Wow…I live in the NY metro area and Catholic K-8 elementary school is about $4K per year–that is a big difference from $6500. Think of it this way, though, NYC public schools spends about $30K per student. So, although all the money is coming out of your pocket, that is quite a bargain.

I would echo what others say, though, about looking into financial aid. Due to the area we live in, our daughter will probably end up in Catholic school as well.

 

[Corki]

We have great public schools here so dont need to use the Catholic school.

This is part of the problem. The thinking, in fact the actual Church teaching, used to be that you sent your kids to Catholic schools if you could. You didn’t need a reason to do so; it was the default. Now, sadly, many people feel as you do that Catholic schools are only “needed” if the public schools are bad. Not only has this led to lower enrollment but lower levels of support for the schools.

 

[CatholicTrekkie]

As the OP says, though, finances can really limit those choices. I’ve also seen that Catholic high schools still tend to be almost completely college-prep in nature. Not many have vocational programs or remedial programs. When you have that, it highlights how important quality in continuing CCD and youth ministries can be for the students in the parish who opt for public school.

The worst of all, IMHO, are the Catholic high schools whose Catholic students don’t avail themselves of the Sacrament of Confirmation. We’re talking a very high percentage. Something is gravely wrong there!!

Speaking from experience, the Catholic high school I attended had remedial classes, though I don’t know about vocational programs (unless you mean programs for religious vocations. In which case, we had none of those either).

As to the Sacrament of Confirmation, I received it when I was in the 8th grade. But now that I’m in college, we regularly have about 2 or 3 students receive the Sacrament every year. Why didn’t they get it earlier on? It’s beyond me, but a Sacrament that important shouldn’t be left towards later in life.

This is part of the problem. The thinking, in fact the actual Church teaching, used to be that you sent your kids to Catholic schools if you could. You didn’t need a reason to do so; it was the default. Now, sadly, many people feel as you do that Catholic schools are only “needed” if the public schools are bad. Not only has this led to lower enrollment but lower levels of support for the schools.

I agree with your sentiment. I know my parents were sent to a parochial school, and I’m supposing my grandparents never even batted an eyelash at it. It was assumed you would go there. Now, with the incessant push of secularism, people don’t feel the need to send their kids to Catholic school. Part of it, of course, is that costs have increased. But a big part of it is also that they just don’t see it as necessary. It’s a symptom of society’s larger move towards secularism.

 

[EasterJoy]

Speaking from experience, the Catholic high school I attended had remedial classes, though I don’t know about vocational programs (unless you mean programs for religious vocations. In which case, we had none of those either).

As to the Sacrament of Confirmation, I received it when I was in the 8th grade. But now that I’m in college, we regularly have about 2 or 3 students receive the Sacrament every year. Why didn’t they get it earlier on? It’s beyond me, but a Sacrament that important shouldn’t be left towards later in life.

I agree with your sentiment. I know my parents were sent to a parochial school, and I’m supposing my grandparents never even batted an eyelash at it. It was assumed you would go there. Now, with the incessant push of secularism, people don’t feel the need to send their kids to Catholic school. Part of it, of course, is that costs have increased. But a big part of it is also that they just don’t see it as necessary. It’s a symptom of society’s larger move towards secularism.

The Catholic high school I went to had remedial classes in English and math, but in some areas the Catholic high schools are extremely competitive to get into. Those needing much in the way of remedial classes need not apply. They are college prep schools before anything else, and that’s all there is to it. Others are small compared to local public schools, and simply do not have the resources to teach woodshop, machine shop, culinary arts, or the kind of thing that a larger high school has the student body size to be able to offer. Still, I believe it is in the public interest that public schools offer such programs, where it is possible. Getting a student ready for college can be cheaper than getting the same student ready for a vocational career (such as being a mechanic or working in the restaurant industry), but sometimes being able to teach something practical will keep that student in high school through graduation and make a better citizen and employee of them in the end.

Confirmation used to be received somewhere between 6th and 8th grade. When I was in school, it had been moved to the freshman year of high school. These days, it is not unusual for sophomore year to be the first year it is normally available. Some of the local parishes recently had difficulty getting their local Catholic high school to make certain that high school events posed no barrier to confirmation preparation–such as making sure that athletes did not suffer from having to go to sacramental prep at their parish–but I’m hearing that this is being cleared up.

Even so, based on responses to the Liturgy and Sacraments forum is not uncommon for a parish to have far more First Communicants than confirmandi…as in 3 or 4 times more. IMHO, if the vast majority of Catholics getting 4 years of a Catholic high school education are not being confirmed, something is gravely amiss.

 

[EasterJoy]

This is part of the problem. The thinking, in fact the actual Church teaching, used to be that you sent your kids to Catholic schools if you could. You didn’t need a reason to do so; it was the default. Now, sadly, many people feel as you do that Catholic schools are only “needed” if the public schools are bad. Not only has this led to lower enrollment but lower levels of support for the schools.

If the Catholic school teaches little theology–or worse, teaches the faith badly or teaches a “faith” that is for all practical purposes in defiance to Rome–or if the school does not do a particularly good job at handing on the faith in practical action, it is hard to fault the conclusion, isn’t it?

While a public school that teaches no Catholic values can be a disappointment to the faithful that attend it, since they have to learn that elsewhere, a Catholic school that fails to do so is a great scandal and can even pose a danger to the faith of its students. Who wants to pay to have a school with “Catholic” painted over the front door ruin their child’s faith? Many parents wouldn’t send their kids in for that if it were provided for free, and I know some of them.

 

[CatholicTrekkie]

If the Catholic school teaches little theology–or worse, teaches the faith badly or teaches a “faith” that is for all practical purposes in defiance to Rome–or if the school does not do a particularly good job at handing on the faith in practical action, it is hard to fault the conclusion, isn’t it?

While a public school that teaches no Catholic values can be a disappointment to the faithful that attend it, since they have to learn that elsewhere, a Catholic school that fails to do so is a great scandal and can even pose a danger to the faith of its students. Who wants to pay to have a school with “Catholic” painted over the front door ruin their child’s faith? Many parents wouldn’t send their kids in for that if it were provided for free, and I know some of them.

Fr. Robert Barron completely summarizes my high school religion experience: youtube.com/watch?v=vZkPH1rOAG0&list=UUcMjLgeWNwqL2LBGS-iPb1A&index=89&feature=plpp_video

I was in the exact same situation. Took 5 very difficult AP classes, with concepts beyond the comprehension of the average American, and for religion, I get essentially a glorified comic book.

The more and more I think about it, the more I realize the “Catholic” high school I went to was not very “Catholic” after all. When you have religion classes where the tests are a joke, homework is scarce at times, and lectures are either unfocused or completely lacking in information, you start to wonder what kind of Catholic education you actually got. I have learned more in two years of very sporadic, very light reading and internet surfing about Catholicism than I have in 4 years of classroom religion classes. Now, granted, none of my religion teachers taught anything heretical (that I can remember), but still…I can’t remember anything from those glorified study halls.

 

[EasterJoy]

Fr. Robert Barron completely summarizes my high school religion experience: youtube.com/watch?v=vZkPH1rOAG0&list=UUcMjLgeWNwqL2LBGS-iPb1A&index=89&feature=plpp_video

I was in the exact same situation. Took 5 very difficult AP classes, with concepts beyond the comprehension of the average American, and for religion, I get essentially a glorified comic book.

The more and more I think about it, the more I realize the “Catholic” high school I went to was not very “Catholic” after all. When you have religion classes where the tests are a joke, homework is scarce at times, and lectures are either unfocused or completely lacking in information, you start to wonder what kind of Catholic education you actually got. I have learned more in two years of very sporadic, very light reading and internet surfing about Catholicism than I have in 4 years of classroom religion classes. Now, granted, none of my religion teachers taught anything heretical (that I can remember), but still…I can’t remember anything from those glorified study halls.

Exactly. There seems to be this fear that if the faith were taught as a rigorous subject, Catholic students would hate it. I believe that exactly the opposite is true. Our faith can withstand intellegent inquiry.

There are Catholic high schools in which academic rigor is confused with a willingness to defy the Magesterium on matters of faith and morals. It is as if “avante garde” and “educated” were the same thing…an infection that is hardly unknown at the university level, IMHO!

Don’t get me started, I’ll go off on a C.S. Lewis rant about the whole thing. I can only say that I was very lucky. Not only did I have religion classes at my high school that both orthodox and fully challenging in the academic sense, but three of my instructors were priests. The other was a religious sister, and a smart one who still reads encyclicals in her “spare time”, even in retirement. That is extremely rare now.

The same charges are levelled at Catholic grade schools, and not without reason, but fortunately there are parish schools who are addressing this. It is finally dawning on somebody that “academics” and “faith formation” are mutually necessary, not mutually exclusive!!

 

[CatholicTrekkie]

Exactly. There seems to be this fear that if the faith were taught as a rigorous subject, Catholic students would hate it. I believe that exactly the opposite is true. Our faith can withstand intellegent inquiry.

There are Catholic high schools in which academic rigor is confused with a willingness to defy the Magesterium on matters of faith and morals. It is as if “avante garde” and “educated” were the same thing…an infection that is hardly unknown at the university level, IMHO!

Don’t get me started, I’ll go off on a C.S. Lewis rant about the whole thing. I can only say that I was very lucky. Not only did I have religion classes at my high school that both orthodox and fully challenging in the academic sense, but three of my instructors were priests. The other was a religious sister, and a smart one who still reads encyclicals in her “spare time”, even in retirement. That is extremely rare now.

The same charges are levelled at Catholic grade schools, and not without reason, but fortunately there are parish schools who are addressing this. It is finally dawning on somebody that “academics” and “faith formation” are mutually necessary, not mutually exclusive!!

Totally agree

 

[joshkt79]

In my opinion, I would much rather send my children to a decent public school and save the money that I would have used to send them to Catholic school, on putting them through college. Let’s be honest here, Catholic schools are good at keeping the “riff-raff” out, but I find that too many parents depend on the Catholic schools to “raise” their children instead of doing it themselves. From K-12, a Catholic family sending one child through private school will pay $50,000-$60,000 just for tuition and what do you get in return? A high school diploma. The same high school diploma they would get in a public school. A Catholic education alone will get you closer to the Lord. A Public education, a good family household who teaches their children right and follows the church, and a college degree will get you far in life.

 

[SamH]

Seriously…K - 12 Catholic education costs way too much. In my large Texas city, the Catholic schools all seem to be around $6,500 or more per year. There seems to be a disconnect between what parishes practice and what they preach.

Catholic education is essentially unattainable for families who, faithful to Catholic teaching, avoided living in sin and married young, were prayerfully open to life and thereby had multiple children, and live on a single income, since one parent stays at home to care for young children. Unless the working parent has a very substantial, very reliable income, they won’t be able to send their kids to Catholic school. Why make Catholic education unattainable for families who practice what the Church teaches? Why the disconnect?

/end rant

Just guessing but is the large Texas city Houston?

They can charge that and still turn away students because the public school system is a shambles. To get a perspective on the $6500, Kansas funds its schools at $12,283 per student. I would expect a large metro area to have even higher costs.

kansasopengov.org/SchoolDistricts/SpendingPerPupil/tabid/1271/Default.aspx

 

[EasterJoy]

In my opinion, I would much rather send my children to a decent public school and save the money that I would have used to send them to Catholic school, on putting them through college. Let’s be honest here, Catholic schools are good at keeping the “riff-raff” out, but I find that too many parents depend on the Catholic schools to “raise” their children instead of doing it themselves. From K-12, a Catholic family sending one child through private school will pay $50,000-$60,000 just for tuition and what do you get in return? A high school diploma. The same high school diploma they would get in a public school. A Catholic education alone will get you closer to the Lord. A Public education, a good family household who teaches their children right and follows the church, and a college degree will get you far in life.

Did you mean to say that “A Catholic education alone will not get you closer to the Lord”? If you think a child will be far more likely to be closer to God after going through the local Catholic school than the local public school, then that’s $50-$60K that a parent could not have spent more wisely. As far as the contention that one high school diploma is the same as another goes, there aren’t many parents picking their real estate based on the quality of the local public school district who even buy that.

A college degree might get you far in life (or might not, as many of the Occupy folks have found), but a relationship with God extends into everlasting life. That’s the main thing. As I think you’re saying, though, you can’t just assume that forking money over to a Catholic school will automatically be a means to that end.

 

[SamH]

In my opinion, I would much rather send my children to a decent public school and save the money that I would have used to send them to Catholic school, on putting them through college. Let’s be honest here, Catholic schools are good at keeping the “riff-raff” out, but I find that too many parents depend on the Catholic schools to “raise” their children instead of doing it themselves. From K-12, a Catholic family sending one child through private school will pay $50,000-$60,000 just for tuition and what do you get in return? A high school diploma. The same high school diploma they would get in a public school. A Catholic education alone will get you closer to the Lord. A Public education, a good family household who teaches their children right and follows the church, and a college degree will get you far in life.

As long as your child doesn’t get killed or molested in a public school.

 

[joshkt79]

Did you mean to say that “A Catholic education alone will not get you closer to the Lord”? If you think a child will be far more likely to be closer to God after going through the local Catholic school than the local public school, then that’s $50-$60K that a parent could not have spent more wisely. As far as the contention that one high school diploma is the same as another goes, there aren’t many parents picking their real estate based on the quality of the local public school district who even buy that.

A college degree might get you far in life (or might not, as many of the Occupy folks have found), but a relationship with God extends into everlasting life. That’s the main thing. As I think you’re saying, though, you can’t just assume that forking money over to a Catholic school will automatically be a means to that end.

What I meant was, you will be closer to the Lord because you will be taught more about religion in a Catholic school. I’m not saying that forking over money to a Catholic school will automatically get your kids closer to God, but I’m sure alot of parents think this. I’m just trying to find the best interest for my child. I want him/her to succeed in life and I want to be able to give them every possible chance for that, education and religion.

 

[joshkt79]

As long as your child doesn’t get killed or molested in a public school.

Not everyone lives in NYC or Compton, California. I went to a public school. I made it out ok. If you believe that the public schools in your area arent safe, then don’t send them there…plain and simple.

 

[Geist]

This is part of the problem. The thinking, in fact the actual Church teaching, used to be that you sent your kids to Catholic schools if you could. You didn’t need a reason to do so; it was the default. Now, sadly, many people feel as you do that Catholic schools are only “needed” if the public schools are bad. Not only has this led to lower enrollment but lower levels of support for the schools.

I pay a commensurate property tax for those schools, so the additional burden of Catholic school tuition cannot be justified, when its really no different from public school except prayer, and kids will pray in public schools as long as tests exist anyway. From what I understand catechism is mainly an afterthought in modern Catholic schools.

Almost half the kids at the local Catholic school aren’t Catholic.

Edit:

We have a special needs child as well so public school is a must.

 

[etmom]

Our Catholic school has a very strong Catholic identity. It’s not perfect, but after putting 2 children through very decent public schools for K-12, I’m not a fan of the public schools (and I’m a product of them myself).

The catholic school my kids go to incorporates religion in EVERY subject of the day. They go to Mass. They REALLY, REALLY, learn their faith, all day long. It is as different from public schools as night and day. They live their faith.

In our diocese, you only pay for the first two kids in the Catholic schools. As long as you are paying for two, it doesn’t matter how many attend. That is a committment to big families, and a blessing.