Why does God let people hurt us? regarding job 24:12

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Zundrah

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Job 24:12
Dying people graon in the city, and the injured cry out for help but God accuses no one of doing wrong.

I came across this last night and thought I should ask some people what they think about it?
Because in a way I guess it is true;
Why does God let people hurt us?
Why does he let us die at evil peoples hands before his own eyes when he could just stop it so easily?
Why does he allow people to abuse our children if he can simply say “NO” and it would all stop? Why?
If you or I could see child abuse and stop it, wouldn’t we do so? So why doesn’t he?
 
It seems that every one has shied away from this question.
So I will try to start it up.

In the gosple, Christ many times said that we would be persicuted and attacked by all who hate us for following the son of man.
He prepared us for possible attack, but that doesn’t actually explain why people hurt each other in general. I guess it is just plain sin, but surely some of the evil that happens on this earth must cause God to be upset? So why do you think he does nothing? Is it even possible to leave a painless life?🤷 Jesus didn’t. 😦

Come on and think of some thing! We need at least one answer!
I’m not trying to put God down if that is what you think!
 
God gets upset. In the end the evil people answer to Him. We all do, for that matter.

I don’t profess to have an answer to this question, which lies in the realm of suffering, which more often than not is due to persecution. Although something will kill all of us in the end, so we will all suffer death at least, even the most protected of us.

To some extent I suppose it is a case of the parable of the wheat and the weeds. In some mysterious fashion, the weeds are necessary for the growth of the wheat. Even the weeds in our own personalities are a part of it. If I have a weakness eg. carnal mindedness (One of mine), then I have to constantly keep watch on that internal weed.

Likewise external weeds are a factor in spiritual growth.

Nevertheless I don’t really have an answer to this question of suffering, since God Himself can, if He so chooses, live isolated in a perfect heaven. This raises the question of why did He endorse suffering in one of his creations? But then if it comes to that, where does God get a sense of humour from, since He is perfect and never makes mistakes, so has no reason to laugh at Himself? Where does evil come from, since God is good, or at least beyond good and evil? What made Him imagine the butterfly on the one hand, and the crocodile on the other, and then bring them into being, one gentle and mild, the other vicious and deadly? Why elephantitis in His created order? Or leprosy? Or malaria? Why is He a Trinity rather than a Unity? WHy did His plan envisage the cross, since God is omnipotent and could have found another way?

There are so many questions we’ll never be able to answer.

But the question of suffering has peculiar import, particularly when we ourselves suffer. For often it is only after we have suffered ourselves that we start to gain any sympathy for the suffering of others. And this leads to the question of why did God endorse suffering, when He Himself is originally totatlly good and lives without suffering?

I don’t know.
 
I see… It is a very complicated subject isn’t it? “Why” is a very complicated word.
I also can’t think of an answer, but there is still time to figure it all out yet.
God can not think bad things, he is suppose to be incapable of it. So it really is just down to sin isn’t it? That is why we come to christ (to loose sin), think about the garden of gespathen (if I spelled it correctly). All the suffering of the world was on christ in that garden. It is terrible. But he later said “that’s enough, it is time for the son of man to be handed over to evil men.” So even he had to face a world that was cruel (as do we), but he said some thing very important here, “enough, it is time to go!”
So I suppose there is only one conclusion;
Keep coming beofre christ and keep trying to do good. Because sin is always there we have to keep batteling it. We can call on his name and he will go through the pain with us. At the least we do have his support and guidance, even if life is hard.
“Come to me, all you who labour and are over burdened and I shall give you rest.”

The question started with God, the conversation was christ and the answer is his holy spirit granted to us by both Father and Son combined for our salvation. Sweet and mercifull is our Lord and saviour. Let us try to be like him in every way.
 
Zundrah said:
Job 24:12
Dying people graon in the city, and the injured cry out for help but God accuses no one of doing wrong.

I came across this last night and thought I should ask some people what they think about it?
Because in a way I guess it is true;
Why does God let people hurt us?
Why does he let us die at evil peoples hands before his own eyes when he could just stop it so easily?
Why does he allow people to abuse our children if he can simply say “NO” and it would all stop? Why?
If you or I could see child abuse and stop it, wouldn’t we do so? So why doesn’t he?
Click to expand...
My own view is that in His Providence, God protects us as we protect our children playing in a sandbox with only plastic toys. He and we know that we have placed the children such that they cannot be hurt in any mortal way by each other. In our case, the protection is from a material mortality that is temporal. In God’s case, the protection is from spiritual mortality that is eternal.

From eternity, observed Teresa of Avila, a life of the worst suffering on earth will be seen to be no more serious than one night in an inconvenient hotel!

Peace,
O’Malley
 
Zundrah said:
It seems that every one has shied away from this question.
So I will try to start it up.

In the gosple, Christ many times said that we would be persicuted and attacked by all who hate us for following the son of man.
Click to expand...
Yes, this is true. However, many of us have been harmed for no reason that is related to the gospel, but just because there is so much evil in the world
Zundrah said:
He prepared us for possible attack, but that doesn’t actually explain why people hurt each other in general. I guess it is just plain sin, but surely some of the evil that happens on this earth must cause God to be upset?
Click to expand...
Most of it happens because of what you say “it is just plain sin”.
Zundrah said:
However, God has His hand on His own, and no evil can come to them unless He allows it. God only allows evil so that greater good can result. That means, if we have been wounded by the evil of this world, God meant it for good. This is the case even if we were not in Christ when the wound occurred. A good example is the life of Joseph
Click to expand...
Gen 50:19-20
20 As for you, you meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today.
Zundrah said:
So why do you think he does nothing? Is it even possible to leave a painless life?🤷 Jesus didn’t. 😦
Click to expand...
It would be a mistake to assume that, because He allowed pain, He did “nothing”. Ever read the 'Footsteps" prayer?
Zundrah said:
Come on and think of some thing! We need at least one answer!
Click to expand...
Always when God allows evil and pain, it is because He means for a greater good to come from it. What better example than our Lord, who suffered death on the cross, for the life of the world.
Zundrah said:
I’m not trying to put God down if that is what you think!
Click to expand...
No, I do not think that. I think you are trying to make sense of the pain in your life, just like we all do.
 
guanophore said:
Yes, this is true. However, many of us have been harmed for no reason that is related to the gospel, but just because there is so much evil in the world

Most of it happens because of what you say “it is just plain sin”.
Click to expand...

Which God - being Almighty & All-Merciful & All-Good, could have prevented. How is this not neglect ? If a human father threw his baby into a fire, he would (one hopes !) get in a lot of trouble - but God does this, and more: & is to be loved :eek:​

**Something simply does not make sense here. Appealing to the imperfection of our moral sense, & specifically of the sense of justice, does not help: because this sense is the foundation for the very moral responsibility that is presupposed by the doctrine of human sin & human guilt. And if it can be appealed to there - what makes it invalid here ? Again: if the sense of justice in man lays him open to divine wrath for being unjust; why does this same sense not serve to convict God of iniquity for what he does unjustly ? **

**Surely it is time to stop letting God off all the time 😦 **

**As for loving a God Who does what God does - that is Stockholm syndrome taken to unimaginable lengths. God is not lovable - not if He is almighty, etc. **

**Maybe the problem is this: that **
  • the Biblical picture(s) of God
  • Christian dogmas about God
  • the world as understood in the Biblical past
do not allow those pictures & dogmas to fit together in the world as understood now. IOW - maybe we have to choose between:
  • those pictures
  • those dogmas
  • the world as understood now
I don’t think all three are compatible any more. At most, any two might be; but not all three. And certainly not all three, & the world as understood in the Biblical past.

The Jews had no idea of how large the world was, & no idea of how much evil there was in it. We must (apparently !) believe that God is as they believed, while knowing a lot they did not know**: and it is hard to believe that God is good, when this God allows thousands to be killed by tsunamis, floods, earthquakes & massacres, all over the world, all the time. The small Jewish Biblical picture of what the world is like, is not big enough to cover all the available data; the picture available to us has to cover more data than that older one did, but it can only do so by stretching & straining the smaller one. We who live now, need a picture of what goes on in the world, & of why, that will suit us, & not a community of Middle Eastern peasants living two or three thousand years ago. Their picture of the world, & their picture of God, is no longer credible; it can be that, only if we ignore the differences between their pictures, & the pictures now. **

**To call God “good” comes to be meaningless otherwise. It would make more sense to say, “God is evil, & delights in evil.” That would at least avoid what seems like self-delusion. This may be unorthodox - but if so, too bad: the dogma looks like an attempt to deny some realities of life; & what good does that do ? More basically, what is honest about denial 😦 ? **

more…
 
guanophore said:
Gen 50:19-20
20 As for you, you meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today.

It would be a mistake to assume that, because He allowed pain, He did “nothing”. Ever read the 'Footsteps" prayer?
Click to expand...

So what was He doing for those who were gassed in Belsen; or driven insane by their sufferings in Siberia or China (as happened to various** priests) ? **One of the Prophets quotes disapprovingly the following words:​

**Disapproval of those who point out facts one has failed to allow for in one’s picture of the world & God is all very well, but it doesn’t change those facts 😦 And it is a fact, one that is undeniable, that ****God often leaves His servants to die horribly, whereas those who make them suffer are at ease. Or else, His servants prosper while those others do not. The moral seems to be: there is no connection between how men live & how they fare, so one might as well leave all this incomprehensible Christian stuff alone. Why be miserable trying to make sense of what makes no sense ****? **
**As for the horrors people suffer for no reason: being burned to death in a house fire caused by an accident of some sort happens easily without any question of human fault arising. Yet God allows these things. **
Always when God allows evil and pain, it is because He means for a greater good to come from it. What better example than our Lord, who suffered death on the cross, for the life of the world.
Click to expand...

**What good did *that *do 😦 ? Pain damages people. ****There have been some horrific cases of child abuse in the UK: one baby had 60 injuries, including a broken spine: **​

Where was God then :mad: ? Or during the Victoria Climbié case ?
To say in such circumstances, “God is good” sounds crazy, & in very bad taste. IST that to have faith, one must either be naive, or indifferent to the miseries of others; for how can people be grateful to God for their own happiness when the media are there to report the uncounted horrors that others suffer ? Where is God for them ? It would make much better sense to believe in a multitude of gods. What does not make sense, is belief in the God of Judaeo-Christian religion & dogma: it’s incoherent, contrary to experience, based on too small a picture of the world, & thus, out-dated. There is no basis for belief in a good God - not unless one believes in a limited God: but to have both beliefs is impossible. What it says on the tin does not match what is in the tin. 😦
No, I do not think that. I think you are trying to make sense of the pain in your life, just like we all do.
Click to expand...
 
One thing we need to remember is that this life is not all there is to our existence. Also, God allows us each to exercise our free will. Sadly, our free wills are corrupted by sin. It was pointed out that the story of Joseph is a good example of how God uses things for good. God certainly knew Joseph would be sold into slavery by his brothers, and He most definitely could have stopped it, but God allowed Joseph’s brothers to exercise their free will (which they meant for evil), and help accomplish God’s will (the preservation of many lives).

Gottle of Geer brought up the victims of Belsen. While we cannot know God’s purpose in everything that happens, I would point out that after the war (in 1948), Israel became a nation again. Also, Germany was divided for many years, and most of those responsible for the horrors were either tried and judged or committed suicide (either way, God is their ultimate judge).

I, myself, have been through some rough times (for example, I was born with a bad heart and had it fixed when I was 11; I had a motorcycle accident when I was 22 and almost lost my leg; my youngest brother was shot and paralyzed). If I didn’t have faith in Jesus Christ, I would probably be a very bitter and angry person (maybe even a homeless drunk). When things get really rough for me, I find comfort in Job, especially when I see that God limited what Satan could do to Job. God’s Word promises that He will never allow us to go through more than we can endure. I may not understand it, but I know that God has a plan and a purpose, and that has always given me the strength to carry on!
 
First and foremost we must understand that the cause of all suffering is sin. God did not cause sin neither did he tempt man to sin and neither does He today tempt us to sin. If He did He would not be good.

Why does God allow sin? He clearly does since sin exists and nothing can exist apart from God’s ordination that it would be so. However we must, once again, remember that ordination from God’s perspective has to do with what is ordinary in the lives of men and not indicative of a causal relationship between God’s will and man’s actions. In other words we are not walking around with puppet strings sticking out of the tops of our heads. We sin because we want to, and so ultimately we suffer because we want to.

As to why, only God knows.

But it does help to look at the end of the book of Job.

God does not answer Job’s question. Job wants to know why God has allowed him to suffer when he has not done anything to deserve to suffer. Of course Job’s assumption that he is blameless before God smacks of vanity and presumption on Job’s part since all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, but in his generation Job was blameless in that he was faithful and not involved in gross sin before the Lord.

But God never answers Job’s question. Instead God asks Job where he was when God made the earth, heavens, animals, etc. or if Job can draw out Leviathan with a five pound test cord or if Job can save himself and humble the wicked and bring them into the dust, and Job replies, “I have heard of you but now I have seen you, therefore I repent in dust and ashes,” and this seems really strange to our overly privileged ears. After all we walk around assuming that we should somehow be immune to suffering. The funny thing is that the most famous hymn in the Church is Amazing Grace and yet we actually presume on Grace and find suffering amazing. As though when we suffer God has somehow failed. And this is where Job is very helpful.

Because while it may seem to us that God is kicking Job around, what is actually happening is that God is pointing out to Job who He (God) is, and by so doing God is effectively asking Job, “Job, if you know who I am then why don’t you trust me?”

If we believe that God is sovereign and good, then we must also accept that our suffering has not escaped God’s attention and neither has it taken Him by surprise. We must also not assume that we have been wronged because God has allowed us to suffer and we are bound by our Faith to accept that our God knows what He is doing even when the sky falls on our heads. To do otherwise is to renounce faith. And if my options are to believe that God is good even when I am suffering and do not understand why or to believe that the universe is a big happenstance and my suffering is meaningless, I will take option ‘A’. Because I would much rather trust God in my hurt than give myself up to meaningless freak occurrence.

I do not find hopelessness in God’s allowing me to suffer according to the counsel of His own will, but I do find hopeless in embracing the nothing of a universe without God.

God Bless

Ray
 
bogeydogg,
Cachonga & o_mlly

You are all spot on and frankly I think we all have asked these questions to God at some point of our lives.
It is so easy at times to believe that God has penalised us out of every one else. But as you can see by this thread, we are all suffering. And guess what? - it’s not because of God! It is because of each other! That’s why it is so important to follow christ’s teachings because if we did, then none of us would be suffering.

Let’s learn from these post and try to do more good in our lives,

“I have called you by name, you are mine.”
 
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