Why does God require some people to beg for years, in prayer, for something?

[auctoris]

Because it is like a bully doing the 'keep away" game, until the requisite amount of begging and groveling is done.

What kind of Father does that?

And there we go. You have a tremendous misunderstanding of God and prayer. From your posts, I get the impression you are an atheist. If not, you definitely hold some atheist beliefs about God

Do it my way. Don’t make me wait. Let me move on. If I don’t understand why you are behaving this way, then it’s wrong. If I don’t see a reason for it, there isn’t one. “Better to reign in hell than serve in heaven.”

There is most likely nothing anyone is going to be able to say to change your mind, since you misunderstand on such a fundamental level. But I’ll see if Socratic works for you.

Why do people pray? What is supposed to be accomplished by prayer? Why should people pray? Why does God want people to pray? Why doesn’t God give people everything they ask for when they ask for it?

As a side note, define the word God. You may have a complete misapprehension about the word.

Also, as a Christian believer, how do you deal with the problem of evil ? What is the answer to that question that is satisfying to you? Why should we let God off the hook for creating us in an imperfect world? If I don’t understand why he didn’t start with perfection and heaven or everyone, does that mean there isn’t a reason? Explain to me how God is not a moral monster.

If you don’t have any satisfying answers to those questions, then prayer is the least of your worries.

Have you read or watched much apologetics?

 

[auctoris]

Christ is close to the Father. He spent long times praying because it was a conversation - two way street. The Father talked to him. It was a pleasant conversation between two most loving persons.

Umm, have you read the Bible? Are you familiar with the big, fat NO Jesus got when he prayed?

 

[pablope]

A

So why didn’t God say “OK, just wait 18 years” as the answer?

 

[Della]

Most of the time I pray for others. But sometimes I ask for myself.

I’m asking to be delivered from evil.

But it really doesn’t matter what I pray for (if it is for me) the answer is always no. Doesn’t matter how good the thing I"m asking for. I can’t even be delivered from evil. I can’t even expect my heavenly father to protect me from the evil one. That is too much to ask.

I don’t know what evil you are struggling against, but God doesn’t usually miraculously deliver us of temptations to sin. He does give us the grace to overcome sin, but it’s up to us to cooperate with him. You need to talk to your confessor about this problem–it may not be as bad as you think it is. You may be beating yourself up for something that, in your circumstances, may be venial rather than mortal.

I know. I’m trying to work through this. Hopefully getting wisdom from CAF (or maybe I’m too optimistic?

Your belief that you have failed in your struggle against your sin is coloring your understanding of God. Again, I urge you to talk to your confessor and do what he tells you to do and believe what he says about the seriousness of your sin.

Christ is close to the Father. He spent long times praying because it was a conversation - two way street. The Father talked to him. It was a pleasant conversation between two most loving persons.

The closest thing we have in human kind is two close friends spending long time on the phone talking, or a man and woman in love who spend tons of time talking.

If prayer were like that for me, with me actually having a personal relationship with God, I’d be praying a long time too!

Prayer to me is a monologue. I speak, God is silent. So I can’t compare what I have to what Christ’s prayers were like.

Completely two different things.

In our desperation to hear God we actually block him out. Don’t try to get an answer to your problems, rather just put yourself in God’s presence and give it all to him. You are trying too hard to get what you want instead of letting go of your anxiety over it. Let it go and let God work in your life. In time it will be rightly resolved–in God’s good time and when you are ready to receive it.

I get it. Prayer is not supposed to give me warm fuzzies. But for crying out loud, I’d like to actually hear his voice! Silence tells me “no, I don’t care about you”

This is a cry of desperation if ever I heard it. It’s not that God doesn’t care, it’s that you care so much you can’t let it go.

 

[BobCatholic]

From your posts, I get the impression you are an atheist. If not, you definitely hold some atheist beliefs about God

False. Not an atheist.

Do it my way. Don’t make me wait.

Not really. Misinterpretation.

Why do people pray?

To communicate with God. Multiple types of prayers. ACTS.

What is supposed to be accomplished by prayer? Why should people pray? Why does God want people to pray?

A personal relationship with God. Something I don’t have.

Why doesn’t God give people everything they ask for when they ask for it?

If it is against God’s will, game over.

 

[BobCatholic]

Umm, have you read the Bible? Are you familiar with the big, fat NO Jesus got when he prayed?

Garden of Gethsamane? The Father said no to the passing of the cup. I think Christ talked about other things, it doesn’t take an hour to say that one sentence.

 

[BobCatholic]

Well…how do you propose God will communicate this to St. Monica?

I don’t know. Verbal? Mental? Somehow communicate.

 

[CatholicRaven]

I don’t find that God really says, “absolutely not,” except maybe to selfish or harmful requests. IME, He either says, “yes,” or, “Not that, because I’ve got something better in mind.”

God always gives us what we need. He does not always give us what we want. Remember that our goal is not here, but Heaven. God, Who knows the outcome, is in a much better position to determine what is best for our souls than we are.

Sometimes, my kids do need to keep asking for something they want, so that I know they truly want it, and are willing to put in the effort to get it.

You’re basically saying you think God should tell us the future, but having that knowledge could effect the outcome, don’t you think? (Or have I just watched too many sci-fi movies about time travel?)

Praying once and giving up because I don’t want to put in any more effort is lazy and shows I don’t really want or need something as much as I might think I do. I think a lack of patience and persistence is common in our culture of selfishness and immediate gratification. We think everything–even prayer–shouldn’t take too much effort, it should be easy and fast, and when it’s not, well, at least tell me how long it’s going to take! Why? So I can determine whether it’s worth my time (or, in other words, “because I think I know better than God what I need”).

Prayer is good for us. It’s never wasted, even when the answer is “no.” Just as exercise can help us get stronger and healthier, even if we don’t win the race, prayer is good spiritual exercise even if we don’t always get exactly what we ask for. Prayer is about conversation with God, relationship with Him, not about getting what we want.

 

[auctoris]

A personal relationship with God. Something I don’t have.

That is more essential info. Are you Catholic or Protestant? Why don’t you have a “personal relationship” with God?

The more you post, the more I don’t think you have an intellectual problem. You have an emotional/spiritual problem.

 

[BobCatholic]

I don’t know what evil you are struggling against,

I have had horrible luck since October, and been begging to be delivered from the bad luck.

I guess I have to give up and accept the horrible fate.

Your belief that you have failed in your struggle against your sin is coloring your understanding of God.

I failed in accepting the beating I’m getting with a smile on my face. Perhaps that is what offends God so much that he doesn’t want to talk to me.

Don’t try to get an answer to your problems, rather just put yourself in God’s presence and give it all to him.

But if he doesn’t care, why? He won’t take the bad luck away.

This is a cry of desperation if ever I heard it. It’s not that God doesn’t care, it’s that you care so much you can’t let it go.

What am I supposed to “let go”? The bad luck? I’d let it go in a heart beat if I knew how!

 

[pablope]

I have had horrible luck since October, and been begging to be delivered from the bad luck.

I guess I have to give up and accept the horrible fate.

I failed in accepting the beating I’m getting with a smile on my face. Perhaps that is what offends God so much that he doesn’t want to talk to me.

But if he doesn’t care, why? He won’t take the bad luck away.

What am I supposed to “let go”? The bad luck? I’d let it go in a heart beat if I knew how!

From 1Sam 15:

22 But Samuel replied:

“Does the Lord delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices
as much as in obeying the Lord?
To obey is better than sacrifice,
and to heed is better than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is like the sin of divination,
and arrogance like the evil of idolatry.
Because you have rejected the word of the Lord,
he has rejected you as king.”

 

[auctoris]

Garden of Gethsamane? The Father said no to the passing of the cup. I think Christ talked about other things, it doesn’t take an hour to say that one sentence.

So it’s an issue of time not intensity for you? Jesus prayed so hard he bled and the Father said no. Not only did he say no, he let the Son be tortured and crucified. And that doesn’t even touch the suffering of taking on the sins of the world. In your opinion, is God supposed to respond better to time or intensity? What if you flail yourself, does that work better/faster?

Also, if he allowed Jesus to suffer more than any human has ever suffered, and you are supposed to imitate Jesus, what’s the problem?

 

[BobCatholic]

You’re basically saying you think God should tell us the future, but having that knowledge could effect the outcome, don’t you think? (Or have I just watched too many sci-fi movies about time travel?)

Great Scott Marty!

Praying once and giving up because I don’t want to put in any more effort is lazy and shows I don’t really want or need something as much as I might think I do.

This is not what I’m saying.

I need something. I ask. God says yes or no. If “yes, but later” he says a timeframe.

Why is this a horrible thing to ask for?

Prayer is good for us. It’s never wasted, even when the answer is “no.”

It most definitely is wasted. Continuing to ask after “no” is selfish, and a waste of time. It is stubbornness. It is not wanting to conform to God’s will, which is evil.

 

[BobCatholic]

So it’s an issue of time not intensity for you?

The issue is whether God is father or a loving daddy.

If I ask daddy for something I need (I’m saying need, not want) - why say no? Why demand tons of extra prayer?

Also, if he allowed Jesus to suffer more than any human has ever suffered, and you are supposed to imitate Jesus, what’s the problem?

Not wanting to suffer is evil. Message received.
Wanting to be delivered from evil is evil. Message received.

 

[BobCatholic]

From 1Sam 15:

22 But Samuel replied:

“Does the Lord delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices
as much as in obeying the Lord?
To obey is better than sacrifice,
and to heed is better than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is like the sin of divination,
and arrogance like the evil of idolatry.
Because you have rejected the word of the Lord,
he has rejected you as king.”

In order to obey, I have to know.

If I don’t know, I can’t obey.

So if God would only talk to me and guide me.

Nope.

I’m punished, and there’s nothing I can do.

 

[Della]

I have had horrible luck since October, and been begging to be delivered from the bad luck.

I guess I have to give up and accept the horrible fate.

I see, I thought you were talking about some kind of sin in your life. Sometimes we do have to accept things that come our way as part of sharing in Christ’s sufferings. My dh and I have experienced several set-backs in our 30+ years together, but God has always supplied our needs. I don’t know your situation, but whatever it is, God has good things in store for you no matter how dark things look for now. This is the voice of experience speaking.

I failed in accepting the beating I’m getting with a smile on my face. Perhaps that is what offends God so much that he doesn’t want to talk to me.

Resentment doesn’t help, especially resentment against God. He allows us to go through trials and tribulations to strengthen us. Jesus certainly went through them–we can’t expect that we won’t.

But if he doesn’t care, why? He won’t take the bad luck away.

He cares too much to give us what we think we want. He will let us fail if that’s what is best for us in the long run. God sees things in eternal terms, after all. His main concern is our salvation, not us getting everything we want in this life. Usually what we want most is the worst thing for us because we want that, rather than wanting what God wants for us. So, he takes things away to prompt us to look to him and to him alone, not so we’ll get what we want out of him.

What am I supposed to “let go”? The bad luck? I’d let it go in a heart beat if I knew how!

Yes. Tell God that you want to let it go. Give it to him and decide that you will accept whatever God sends your way. If you do, you’ll find peace because you’ll be looking to God instead of to your “luck” for your happiness.

 

[auctoris]

I have had horrible luck since October, and been begging to be delivered from the bad luck.

I promise you that other people have it far worse. I imagine that my last three years have been far worse. We won’t get into a suffering contest, but I have lost EVERYTHING. Money, possessions, job, family, health . . . gone.

So your problem is the problem of suffering/evil, not why God doesn’t answer the prayer the way we want, when we want. Ever read the book of Job?

Essentially you have made it to the same place Job was and you are putting God on trial . . . just like Job did.

Since I don’t know your specifics, I can only point you to things that have helped me. Here are some things to consider.

C.S. Lewis - The Problem of Pain

C.S. Lewis - A Grief Observed

Peter Kreeft - Three Philosophies of Life: Ecclesiastes–Life as Vanity, Job–Life as Suffering, Song of Songs–Life as Love

Peter Kreeft - Making Sense Out of Suffering

Also, in your suffering, what are you doing for others? How are you showing love to people? You want a relationship with God, get int he same business he is in–Love.

C.S. Lewis said, “I never understood why people say, ‘I am not afraid of God because he is good.’ Have you never been to a dentist?”

EVERY period of spiritual growth in my life has come through pain and suffering. “Pain plants the flag of truth inside a rebel fortress.”–C.S. Lewis

 

[CatholicRaven]

I’m sorry that you’re struggling with suffering in your life. I will pray for you.

I would suggest that you consider a couple of resources.

One is “Searching for and Maintaining Peace,” a small book that contains great wisdom. It may help you find peace in the day-to-day struggles.

The other would be The Passion by Radix Guys. This is a different approach than Mel Gibson’s version, but I think it may be very helpful to you in having a more personal relationship with Christ and a better understanding of just how much God really does love you.

 

[BobCatholic]

Yes. Tell God that you want to let it go. Give it to him and decide that you will accept whatever God sends your way. If you do, you’ll find peace because you’ll be looking to God instead of to your “luck” for your happiness.

I’m afraid to do that. With God not wanting to talk to me, I have no idea what he expects from me. I think I’m being punished for doing something he refuses to communicate.

As a result I’m afraid to say “I’ll accept what you’ll send my way.” - he sent this bad luck which he refuses to protect me from.

Deliver us from evil…oops, doesn’t apply to me. Every attempt I’ve made to get closer to God has failed, and this is very devastating to me.

I’ll go to a healing service, see God’s wonderful miraculous cures happening around me, but I get bypassed. I pray to be delivered from evil, oh well, game over.

Jesus is walking by. I am Bartimaeus. I yell out for mercy and he keeps walking. Answer is no. Nothing I can do.

So I give up on asking. This is too hard for me.

 

[Nelka]

If my son were to turn out like St. Augustine I would think 18 years of praying was definitely worth it.