Why does God seem silent today?

[GratefulFred]

There’s not a single, contemporary, eyewitness account of Christ.

Contrast this with Washington – we have items that he owned, a house he lived in, texts he authored in his own hand, legislative records from when he was president of the United States, and – on top of all of this – descriptions of him given by his contemporaries.

To say that these claims are comparable is crazy.

With the handle of “AntiTheist” I take it that you are maintaining a position that God does not exist or at least that Christ is not the Living Son of God. If so, that’s OK. I may not convince you for two main reasons. First, I am not a trained theologian, just a lifelong practicing Catholic in the pew every Sunday and then some. I am grateful for my life, my wife, my family and my Faith. Second, the connection from your ears and eyes to your heart may be blocked. If so, that blockage need not be permanent. Nonetheless, I and others will continue to state how we relate to God and His Son Jesus Christ.

Oral History is as valid as contemporary written history. If you interview your grandfather and he provides you his oral history and you write it down, is that delayed written history to be assumed false by future readers simply because you, the writer, did not personally experience it? I am talking about total rejection of the oral history not just some points that a reader may not fully understand.

To assert that such a delayed written history is false, one should be able to show just how your grandfather was lying and/or just how you wrote other than what he said to the point that you lied too.

So start with what is written that Christ said. What statements attributed to Christ are lies? My 4th grade teacher just knew I was lying when I told the class about a mink farm in Rhode Island. RI happens to be rather small and she, well educated and middle aged, was a native. She did not know about mink being raised for their pelts in RI so therefore it did not exist and thus I Iied. At least until parent conference when my mother confirmed that she was there with me in a particular rural town.

That Christ would come into the world was foretold in many places in the Old Testament. The New Testament documents that Christ fulfilled every sign of who would be the Son of God. No other historical figure has ever been foretold. That many rejected Him then and all through history for their own selfish reasons does not make Christ false. When we see what He taught and the fruits of His Teaching 2,000 years ago, we are compelled to at least accept that Christ did indeed exist and that His Teachings have had a huge positive effect on the world.

God seems silent today because many, especially those in the mass media who try to set trends, refuse to consider that Christ may indeed be the true Son of God. For them it is a badge of ‘honor’ that they be seen ignoring or doing opposite of what Christ taught. They drown out the soft voices of us who follow Christ and persuade others to reject Christ.

Intellectual honesty - try reading the Gospels and the New Testament with a presumption that what is written about Christ just may indeed be the Truth. Love one another. Forgive sins as we would have our sins forgiven. How are teachings like this false and to be rejected?

 

[BlueShadow123]

Thank you for the unsubstantiated (and threatening) assertion.

‘Threatening’?
Sorry buddy, but its true.
Read the told testament and you’ll see what I mean. Those people should have thought twice before sinning. It cost most of them their lives. And due to all the things people seem to post on here about all their sins and nonsense, God wouldn’t have put up with those sins back in the day. They are lucky they live in 2010.

 

[tonyrey]

Eye-witness accounts are far from being the sole - or even the most valuable - evidence of the existence of Jesus. His teaching epitomised in His life and death is the basis of the values of modern civilisation enshrined in the UN Declaration of Human Rights and the principles of liberty, equality and fraternity.

The Enlightenment principles did not come out of the blue but were derived from the Western heritage of Christianity. In patriarchal societies Jesus was unique in regarding women and children as having the same rights as men. The principles of liberty and fraternity are based on His teaching that we all have the same Father in heaven who forgives us as we forgive those who trespass against us. In other words we are morally responsible because we have been given the power to choose how to live and who to love - ourselves or others.** In a purposeless universe there is** no rational basis for any moral principles. We would be not only Fatherless but strange freaks of nature in the emptiness and darkness of eternity. If only matter existed nothing would matter…

It is absurd to think all this is the result of the fanciful adventures of a fictional character invented by superstitious men in an obscure province of the Roman Empire…

And how do you explain the effects of Islam, or any other religion which isn’t true? I think the “fanciful adventures of a fictional character” can result in quite a lot.

“quite a lot” hardly amounts to the noblest moral teaching the world has ever known. The author of the fictional character must have had unparallelled moral insight. What motive did he have for deceiving the world at a time when Christians were being persecuted, tortured and executed by stoning or crucifixion?

(As an aside, I’m not claiming that Jesus the man was fictional, but that Jesus the divine miracle worker was fictional. As I’m sure you hold that Muhammad, prophet of God and countless others are fictional.)

Christianity doesn’t have a monopoly of truth or miracles but is unique in having as its founder the man who epitomised in his life and death the noblest moral teaching the world has ever known. Such precise correspondence between words and deeds is due to fact rather than fiction. It reveals holiness and wisdom rather than fraud and superstition. “By their fruits you shall know them…”

 

[Magnavox]

I do not want to come across as one who is doubting God, I just want to come across as one that is wondering why the world is falling into the shape it is…

To those who think I am not listening, I am trying hard to listen, I attend Mass twice a week, go to confession monthly, spend time in prayer and adoration every week. I am listening. And I am not saying that I never feel God’s presence or for that matter know that he is there. I am just saying that it appears he is silent when devastating events are taking place.

We have had wars that have killed millions and I understand this can be attirbuted to the free will of humans, but earthquakes that have killed millions can not possibly be attributed to free will. We have an untold amount of diseases that are killing folks everyday. We have babies that are born deaf/blind/mute/with leukemia.

When I read the news daily some of the articles make me pause and wonder what is going on actually…take for instance this one…I know its a little old but it stuck out from long ago.

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1039599/Lesbian-IVF-couple-shared-eggs-sperm-BOTH-birth-twins.html

This is one of the things that trouble me the most. My wife and I have one child and we cannot have anymore. We try desperately to serve God and do his will, yet for some unknown reason to us we cannot have children.

I for the life of me cannot understand this. If God is against homosexuality, and IVF why does it continue. If God is the author of life why is he allowing human beings so much control over it all of a sudden? I mean Onan died for spilling his seed on the ground while trying to avoid making offspring with his deceased brothers wife…this strikes me as hard to understand, Onan died for coitus interruptus, but the adulteress down the street has aborted (murdered) 3 of her babies because she wants to party and use drugs and a baby is just to much for her…she receives no punishment.

I am not questioning God’s judgment, I am just trying hard to understand why isn’t something happening today?

 

[BlueShadow123]

I do not want to come across as one who is doubting God, I just want to come across as one that is wondering why the world is falling into the shape it is…

To those who think I am not listening, I am trying hard to listen, I attend Mass twice a week, go to confession monthly, spend time in prayer and adoration every week. I am listening. And I am not saying that I never feel God’s presence or for that matter know that he is there. I am just saying that it appears he is silent when devastating events are taking place.

We have had wars that have killed millions and I understand this can be attirbuted to the free will of humans, but earthquakes that have killed millions can not possibly be attributed to free will. We have an untold amount of diseases that are killing folks everyday. We have babies that are born deaf/blind/mute/with leukemia.

When I read the news daily some of the articles make me pause and wonder what is going on actually…take for instance this one…I know its a little old but it stuck out from long ago.

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1039599/Lesbian-IVF-couple-shared-eggs-sperm-BOTH-birth-twins.html

This is one of the things that trouble me the most. My wife and I have one child and we cannot have anymore. We try desperately to serve God and do his will, yet for some unknown reason to us we cannot have children.

I for the life of me cannot understand this. If God is against homosexuality, and IVF why does it continue. If God is the author of life why is he allowing human beings so much control over it all of a sudden? I mean Onan died for spilling his seed on the ground while trying to avoid making offspring with his deceased brothers wife…this strikes me as hard to understand, Onan died for coitus interruptus, but the adulteress down the street has aborted (murdered) 3 of her babies because she wants to party and use drugs and a baby is just to much for her…she receives no punishment.

I am not questioning God’s judgment, I am just trying hard to understand why isn’t something happening today?

Maybe God wants you to adopt a child. We all know theres millions of unwanted kids out there crying for a home.

 

[DanteAlighieri]

Maybe God wants you to adopt a child. We all know theres millions of unwanted kids out there crying for a home.

Do you really have nothing but snide comments to add to this thread? A person asked an earnest question seeking spiritual guidance, and all you can do is crack wise?

All:

This thread is being derailed by snarkiness and tangential discussion. Can we get back to the OP’s question?

OP:

I’m no theologian or Biblical historian, but it is part of our faith that God worked and works through the unfolding of human history. The Old Testament events to which you refer needed to happen in order to bring about the historical circumstances into which Christ was born.

Additionally, Christ is the fulfillment of God’s love, mercy, and justice. Because of His revelation and passion, the basis of Christian morality is established in our deposit of faith, and there is little need for grand displays of Divine retribution.

Finally, one other tenet of our faith is that public revelation ended with the death of the Apostles. This began a new age in which the faith is kept and passed on by the Church, whose formation was thousands of years in the making. God is not silent; He speaks to us through the Church, and she offers sinners such as those you mentioned the opportunity to repent and embrace the Truth.

Peace,
Dante

 

[AntiTheist]

I may not convince you

To be clear, I was not looking to “convince” anyone on the point of supernatural beliefs. My only point in that post was that the two claims – “The Christ depicted in the Gospels existed” and “George Washington existed” – are not even remotely close in terms of evidence. There’s so much more evidence that Washington existed that it is, in fact, laughable to attempt to suggest that the claims are similar in that regard.

Intellectual honesty - try reading the Gospels and the New Testament with a presumption that what is written about Christ just may indeed be the Truth. Love one another. Forgive sins as we would have our sins forgiven. How are teachings like this false and to be rejected?

Again, to be clear, it is quite possible that one can agree with statements like “it’s a good thing for people to be nice to each other” without having to accept supernatural claims.

When I say that I don’t believe in god or Christ, I’m saying that I don’t think the evidence is sufficient to accept the supernatural parts of the story. I’m not commenting on the value of the teachings attributed to Christ, which is a different subject entirely.

 

[BlueShadow123]

Do you really have nothing but snide comments to add to this thread? A person asked an earnest question seeking spiritual guidance, and all you can do is crack wise?

All:

This thread is being derailed by snarkiness and tangential discussion. Can we get back to the OP’s question?

OP:

I’m no theologian or Biblical historian, but it is part of our faith that God worked and works through the unfolding of human history. The Old Testament events to which you refer needed to happen in order to bring about the historical circumstances into which Christ was born.

Additionally, Christ is the fulfillment of God’s love, mercy, and justice. Because of His revelation and passion, the basis of Christian morality is established in our deposit of faith, and there is little need for grand displays of Divine retribution.

Finally, one other tenet of our faith is that public revelation ended with the death of the Apostles. This began a new age in which the faith is kept and passed on by the Church, whose formation was thousands of years in the making. God is not silent; He speaks to us through the Church, and she offers sinners such as those you mentioned the opportunity to repent and embrace the Truth.

Peace,
Dante

Excuse me?
How dare you judge my post. There is nothing mean about it. I was being honest. What the heck is so wrong with adoption? are you against it or something?
There ARE millions of kids who are crying for homes daily and I think its quite sad. Maybe God DOES want him to adopt a child. You wouldn’t know. Quit assuming things.

 

[vz71]

Again, to be clear, it is quite possible that one can agree with statements like “it’s a good thing for people to be nice to each other” without having to accept supernatural claims.

Attempting to reduce the teachings of Christ to that simple statement shows a remarkable lack of knowledge of the subject.

No wonder you are convinced there is inadequate evidence.

 

[AntiTheist]

Attempting to reduce the teachings of Christ to that simple statement shows a remarkable lack of knowledge of the subject.

Well, I was trying to reduce them to a statement that I agree with for the sake of simplicity in making my point. While I have no problem with some of the ideas attributed to Christ, many of the teachings attributed to him – including the idea that we should “turn the other cheek,” “bless those who curse us,” and that we should all sell our worldly possessions and “hate” our families because the end of the world is at hand (Christ is quite explicit that the end of the world will come within the lives of those who witnessed his ministry) – are not things that I consider particularly good or smart.

Again, my personal evaluation of some of these teachings has nothing to do with whether the supernatural parts of the story are true.

 

[vz71]

Again, my personal evaluation of some of these teachings has nothing to do with whether the supernatural parts of the story are true.

No, but the do have direct bearing upon your conclusions and the weight of these conclusions when people consider what you have said.

 

[Anrando]

I have a question, probably against the rules, but WHY do these threads ALWAYS turn into the atheists trying to sell their secular relativism to believers. I didn’t read a request for proof of the existence of G-d in the OP’s question. Or perhaps I am just dense.

I really often wonder why our clearly “enlightened” secular brethren feel the need to come to Catholic forums to demonstrate their “superior” intellect and arrogance. Aren’t their enough secular boards out there where they can play.

If a non-believer wants to consider my faith a delusion, OK, but it’s MY delusion. This constant badgering for scientific “proof” of the unprovable is really boring and tiring to be honest.

Like another poster pointed out you cannot prove emotions, does that mean they do not exist?

You cannot prove taste, or hearing or the senses for that matter. They are a personal experience. Please don’t go to the measurable brain activity proof for these things because prayer and meditation have demonstrable brain activity as well. You can no more argue that a particular nerve impulse is the color green in the experience of the man than that another impulse is not the result of G-d inspiring that same individual. Some things just cannot be proved.

To answer the OP, in my plebeian way of thinking (which on this board renders it worthless), the world is ours to mess up. Freedom of will requires that G-d NOT interfer in the way we choose to make the world. The whole idea is that we have to make the choice to follow G-d and not our own arrogance. That is the nature of the whole test of faith thing. G-d is there, you just have to find him individually in your own way, or NOT.

If G-d was openly performing miracles on a daily basis, making it rain, raising the dead etc. who in their right mind would NOT believe. There would be no need for faith, no “free” will. There would be no non-believers. That’s the game if you will. Believe or don’t. IT IS A PERSONAL CHOICE given to us by G-d.

None of us will know who was right until the moment of our death, no matter how many times we type the same things in these discussions.

I personally believe that G-d is no more silent today than he has ever been. What are we looking for? The earth to stop it’s rotation, the heavens to open with a booming voice, the dead to rise up from their graves, what is G-d supposed to do to communicate with us to meet a “scientific” level of proof?. He communicates through our capacity to recieve his inspiration. He answers prayers, at least for me. That can’t be proven to anyone else but ME. So this continuing demand for the god “Science” to be supreme just isn’t going to “cut mustard” with this non-enlightened believer.

W.Unland

 

[vz71]

I personally believe that G-d is no more silent today than he has ever been. What are we looking for? The earth to stop it’s rotation, the heavens to open with a booming voice, the dead to rise up from their graves, what is G-d supposed to do to communicate with us to meet a “scientific” level of proof?. He communicates through our capacity to recieve his inspiration. He answers prayers, at least for me. That can’t be proven to anyone else but ME. So this continuing demand for the god “Science” to be supreme just isn’t going to “cut mustard” with this non-enlightened believer.

W.Unland

This touches on something that I do not believe has been covered as yet.

What we read about in the bible are written from the point of view of a people with almost no understanding of science such as we know it.

What would the miracles written about in the bible look like to modern man with modern understanding?

Would the sea have really have parted or would we see some other natural explanation?
Would it really be the hand of God destroying sodam and gomorrah or would we recognize the effects of some natural event?

God has always spoken to us. But we may not be listening in the right places anymore.

 

[hatsoff]

I personally believe that G-d is no more silent today than he has ever been. What are we looking for? The earth to stop it’s rotation, the heavens to open with a booming voice, the dead to rise up from their graves, what is G-d supposed to do to communicate with us to meet a “scientific” level of proof?. He communicates through our capacity to recieve his inspiration. He answers prayers, at least for me. That can’t be proven to anyone else but ME. So this continuing demand for the god “Science” to be supreme just isn’t going to “cut mustard” with this non-enlightened believer.

It’s not always about science, though. You claim that God answers your prayers, but if so this would be an extraordinary departure from the norm. Obviously, if someone has a genuine personal relationship with the creator of the universe, there will be no problem. But someone asking, ``why does God seem silent?’’ clearly doesn’t have such a relationship! Someone whose prayers have been answered isn’t going to be wondering why God is hidden from them.

 

[vz71]

But someone asking, ``why does God seem silent?’’ clearly doesn’t have such a relationship! Someone whose prayers have been answered isn’t going to be wondering why God is hidden from them.

That may be a valid way of interpreting the question.

But the OP is comparing and contrasting with the old testament.
Many of the miracles within the old testament (almost all of them actually) were not personal answers, but rather very loud and hard to avoid events that many people bore witness to.

I believe the silence in this case is better defined as the abscence of large scale acts of God that multiple people witness (including unbelievers).

 

[GratefulFred]

To answer the OP, in my plebeian way of thinking (which on this board renders it worthless [NOT]), the world is ours to mess up. Freedom of will requires that G-d NOT interfer in the way we choose to make the world. The whole idea is that we have to make the choice to follow G-d and not our own arrogance. That is the nature of the whole test of faith thing. G-d is there, you just have to find him individually in your own way, or NOT.

If G-d was openly performing miracles on a daily basis, making it rain, raising the dead etc. who in their right mind would NOT believe. There would be no need for faith, no “free” will. There would be no non-believers. That’s the game if you will. Believe or don’t. IT IS A PERSONAL CHOICE given to us by G-d.

None of us will know who was right until the moment of our death, no matter how many times we type the same things in these discussions.

I personally believe that G-d is no more silent today than he has ever been. What are we looking for? The earth to stop it’s rotation, the heavens to open with a booming voice, the dead to rise up from their graves, what is G-d supposed to do to communicate with us to meet a “scientific” level of proof?. He communicates through our capacity to recieve his inspiration. He answers prayers, at least for me. That can’t be proven to anyone else but ME. So this continuing demand for the god “Science” to be supreme just isn’t going to “cut mustard” with this non-enlightened believer.
**

WELL SAID !

And your statement is WHY I think it fine for non-believers (NB) or different believers (DB) to post on these boards. Readers now have the advantage of YOUR thinking we would not have otherwise.

Remember that Lucifer and about 1/3 of the angels who knew God better than man chose to no longer follow and it has been a struggle ever since. The OT and NT are full of history of NBs and DBs including some who saw Christ teach and perform miracles, as is the history from Christ until this very day.

FAITH is a GIFT from God. We can encourage the NBs and DBs to open that gift by the excellent post you gave above. We also strengthen and encourage believers to carry on in their faith. Perhaps they will pass on something you wrote to someone else who then comes closer to God.

Free Will is vital. All of us will reap the results of the choices we make in this life. Like, you, I am choosing daily to go for the infinitely better reward. NBs and DBs will also reap the reward they freely choose. Still we try on their behalf to invite them to join us.

 

[Aleii]

To answer the OP, in my plebeian way of thinking (which on this board renders it worthless), the world is ours to mess up. Freedom of will requires that G-d NOT interfer in the way we choose to make the world.

Are you then saying that God has “stepped back” and no longer actively influences things in the world?

The whole idea is that we have to make the choice to follow G-d and not our own arrogance. That is the nature of the whole test of faith thing. G-d is there, you just have to find him individually in your own way, or NOT.

Isn’t the whole idea of having a choice, to have the correct information in front of you to be able to choose one way or another?

If G-d was openly performing miracles on a daily basis, making it rain, raising the dead etc. who in their right mind would NOT believe.

I never understood why this was a bad thing. I don’t mean that God needs to be doing miracles, I just mean God being less confusing.

There would be no need for faith, no “free” will. There would be no non-believers. That’s the game if you will. Believe or don’t. IT IS A PERSONAL CHOICE given to us by G-d.

What does believing in anything have to do with free will? I can not choose to believe that Santa/Zeus is real(because it doesn’t make sense) or that the sun will not come up(because that doesn’t make sense), even if someone threatens me - how do you ‘choose’ what to believe? Sure, one has the free will to choose actions which may lead to faith, such as going to church or saying “God come into my life” etc, but I can not just switch belief on or off like a lightswitch. I can do actions which might produce faith, but I can not choose belief or non-belief. Surely you don’t think that Mother Theresa chose to have a crisis of faith? Then why you you say that belief or non-belief is a simple choice?

Even if someone has belief[information of validity] they still have the ability to choose how to act. God spoke directly to many in the Bible - do you feel like these people had no more free will because of it? If not, then why do you think it would limit someone’s free will to have information that something does exist? How does information/knowledge decrease free will?

What are we looking for?

I think people are just looking for some way to understand the world around them

GratefulFred:

FAITH is a GIFT from God.

Why is faith so important? Why does God value people bumbling around in thousands of wrong religions, in a sea of misinformation, hoping they stumble across the ‘right’ path? Why is this better than having the information laid out clearly and allowing people to choose their path freely?

 

[GratefulFred]

I think people are just looking for some way to understand the world around them.

Why is faith so important? Why does God value people bumbling around in thousands of wrong religions, in a sea of misinformation, hoping they stumble across the ‘right’ path? Why is this better than having the information laid out clearly and allowing people to choose their path freely?

I agree that people are looking for a way to understand the world around them. Mankind has always searched for meaning. Alone, I may be able to learn how to count enough numbers to meet my needs and never gain any knowledge of algebra or orbital mechanics. Someone greater than me has to teach me.

Alone, I may also search for A god or think that this world is so complicated it requires a gaggle of gods THAT I CREATE and require others to follow because I am strong enough. But, in the end, such MAN MADE GODS FAIL to satisfy. No man can comprehend the ONE TRUE GOD UNLESS GOD REVEALS HIMSELF TO MAN.

God revealed Himself to the Jews in the OT. The OT tells us how we will know who is the Son of God Made Man, as promised in the OT. Jesus Christ fullfilled each promise. His teachings and miracles, and even God’s personal endorsement, prove that Jesus Christ is indeed the Son of God Made Man. Some saw Him and listened to Him but rejected Him because He did not fit THEIR idea what they wanted Him to be. They judged too quickly His teaching.

Christ commanded the Apostles to “go and teach all nations.” And if a town rejects Christ’s teachings, then go elsewhere. In 2,000 years we have taught most everywhere at one time or another with various degrees of acceptance. Often, as time passes, we try again in places where the sharing of the Faith was not successful.

FAITH IS IMPORTANT because it is the key to eternal salvation. If a non-believer suspects that there may indeed be a Heaven and thus a non-Heaven, aka, Hell, then it would be very prudent to seek Wisdom - right knowledge and judgment.

Before one should judge that the Catholic Faith is 'wrong" or, at best, has to be proved beyond any doubt before one can accept it, it would be intellectually honest to try and understand before trying to put up barriers to God’s call to open His Faith of Faith and all it offers. THAT is a personal choice.

God seems silent to anyone who is not truly trying to learn about God. God will grant Faith and better Faith to those who truly seek Him in Love.

 

[AntiTheist]

I didn’t read a request for proof of the existence of G-d in the OP’s question.

No, you read a sincere question about why it seems like god is silent.

One obvious answer to this question is that it might just be that this god doesn’t exist at all. There is, one must admit, no discernable difference between a “silent” god and a god who doesn’t exist.

Exploring a logical possibility raised by the OP is precisely what it means to discuss the OP. If it bothers you, ignore me.

Like another poster pointed out you cannot prove emotions, does that mean they do not exist?

Well, setting aside for a moment that we can prove that the emotions exist (have you never seen a brain scan of someone undergoing strong emotions? Whatever it is that we call “emotions” certainly maps to certain regular activity in the brain), no one claims that the emotions are magical entities that exist outside of the human mind and grant our wishes.

“Emotions” are things that happen in the brain, things that are experienced by virtually everyone, things that we can detect with instruments.

The claim “I get a nice feeling in my stomach that I call ‘love’” is in an entirely different kind of claim – requiring a very different kind of evidence – than the claim “Love is a child with wings who shoots arrows into people; I can pray to him to cause results to happen.”

 

[Magnavox]

There is no doubt to me that God exists. I firmly believe in the existence of God with all my heart. I was just wondering why other believers thought in regards to the silence of God in situations.

I have read many posts, and it seems that the majority of believers do not believe he is being silent. I know that its my failure to understand. After reading the Old Testament a few times it just appears that he is not as active it the world today as he was then. I have realized that at every Mass the most awesome miracle happens right in front of my eyes.