Why does it matter? (Gay marriage)

[JamesCaruso]

It’s crazy. People do not reason morally very well. Basically they form their consciences from TV and pop culture. Emotion trumps reason every time.

There is no shortage of excuses for sin.

Go with the flow. They wouldn’t allow it if there was anything wrong with it! Live and let live! To each his own. Not my cup of tea. It takes all kinds to make a world. Judge not. As long as it’s not hurting anybody. It’s none of my business. We should be more compassionate. People can’t help the way they are. One man’s food is another man’s poison. It’s just the way things are. It’s not my job to tell them. Society is evolving. Times change. They’re not hurting anybody. What’s in a word? They’ll do it anyway. It’s only fair. Who made you ruler of the world? These are different times. That was before they had today’s understanding. Some of my best friends are. People have a right to decide for themselves. It’s my body; I can do with it what I want. It’s only natural. It’s okay if you love him/her. Aren’t you being a bit prudish? Your morals are your morals. God wants us to be happy, doesn’t He? All that matters is that you’re a good person. We are all a product of our environment. If that’s what makes you happy. The Bible is two thousand years old! The Church needs to be more relevant. A priest wouldn’t understand. Christianity is just an ideal. Nobody’s perfect. Says who? It’s just the way I see things. Religious people are the worst offenders! Why don’t they practice what they preach? It’s my choice. If you don’t mind, I’ll do it my way. My conscience is my guide. I don’t need an old man in a funny hat to tell me what’s right and wrong. Do you still believe in those fables? This is the 21st century! You always were a little backwards. It’s not sin when two people love each other. We need more love in this world. The Bible doesn’t say anything about that. It all depends on how you interpret it. What’s good for you is not necessarily good for me. Whatever makes you happy.

 

[fix]

There is no shortage of excuses for sin.

Go with the flow. They wouldn’t allow it if there was anything wrong with it! Live and let live! To each his own. Not my cup of tea. It takes all kinds to make a world. Judge not. As long as it’s not hurting anybody. It’s none of my business. We should be more compassionate. People can’t help the way they are. One man’s food is another man’s poison. It’s just the way things are. It’s not my job to tell them. Society is evolving. Times change. They’re not hurting anybody. What’s in a word? They’ll do it anyway. It’s only fair. Who made you ruler of the world? These are different times. That was before they had today’s understanding. Some of my best friends are. People have a right to decide for themselves. It’s my body; I can do with it what I want. It’s only natural. It’s okay if you love him/her. Aren’t you being a bit prudish? Your morals are your morals. God wants us to be happy, doesn’t He? All that matters is that you’re a good person. We are all a product of our environment. If that’s what makes you happy. The Bible is two thousand years old! The Church needs to be more relevant. A priest wouldn’t understand. Christianity is just an ideal. Nobody’s perfect. Says who? It’s just the way I see things. Religious people are the worst offenders! Why don’t they practice what they preach? It’s my choice. If you don’t mind, I’ll do it my way. My conscience is my guide. I don’t need an old man in a funny hat to tell me what’s right and wrong. Do you still believe in those fables? This is the 21st century! You always were a little backwards. It’s not sin when two people love each other. We need more love in this world. The Bible doesn’t say anything about that. It all depends on how you interpret it. What’s good for you is not necessarily good for me. Whatever makes you happy.

Yes and as they say you cannot convince anyone who refuses not to be convinced.

 

[perro_sarnoso]

No man is an Island comes to mind.

The butterfly effect also but…the former was written by Thomas Merton.

Are we really so obfuscated by our own “thing” that we feel that the actions of others don’t affect us and ours in some way?

If marriage (one man and one woman united in the sacrament of marriage) meant nothing-then Jesus and Mary would not have found it important to attend the wedding at Cana. To seal and sactify that uniion with their presence and their actions.

They chose the wedding at Cana for the first intercession and the first miracle and the launching of Christ’s ministry. The beginning of a family and the fruits thereof. The start from a nucleus of society. Clean and healthy and holy!! A living cell of society-blessed by the grace and power of the most High Jesus Christ and His Blessed Mother.

Fast forward to today-the age of [gay marriage] it is a cancerous cell that will infect all of society and has already metasthasized. (however you spell that).

God help us, God forgive us.

 

[livingwordunity]

No man is an Island comes to mind.

The butterfly effect also but…the former was written by Thomas Merton.

Are we really so obfuscated by our own “thing” that we feel that the actions of others don’t affect us and ours in some way?

If marriage (one man and one woman united in the sacrament of marriage) meant nothing-then Jesus and Mary would not have found it important to attend the wedding at Cana. To seal and sactify that uniion with their presence and their actions.

They chose the wedding at Cana for the first intercession and the first miracle and the launching of Christ’s ministry. The beginning of a family and the fruits thereof. The start from a nucleus of society. Clean and healthy and holy!! A living cell of society-blessed by the grace and power of the most High Jesus Christ and His Blessed Mother.

Fast forward to today-the age of [gay marriage] it is a cancerous cell that will infect all of society and has already metasthasized. (however you spell that).

God help us, God forgive us.

Yep. There are even some straight celebrities who have said they intend to protest by not getting married. The way Saint Paul says it in Romans, it sounds to me like he’s saying that homosexual acts are wicked but to encourage others in the behavior is even worse than the one who is doing it. This fits with how Jesus gives extra condemnation to those who cause others to sin.

 

[Cojuanco]

It’s crazy. People do not reason morally very well. Basically they form their consciences from TV and pop culture. Emotion trumps reason every time.

Idle thought: perhaps the reason the Church takes the position it takes is that it is for everyone’s good, whether they know it or not. Think of a mother that tells kids what to do despite their fierce opposition to the command. Let’s face it, we’re all morally deficient. Compared to God, we all have the moral reasoning of children, and such requires a parental voice to say no. Hence our Holy Mother Church.

On topic: to be honest, the HRC won’t destroy marriage, and it didn’t. That’s all on the rest of us. We’ve cheapened marriage so much that it’s come to this.

 

[90Domer]

There is no shortage of excuses for sin.

Go with the flow. They wouldn’t allow it if there was anything wrong with it! Live and let live! To each his own. Not my cup of tea. It takes all kinds to make a world. Judge not. As long as it’s not hurting anybody. It’s none of my business. We should be more compassionate. People can’t help the way they are. One man’s food is another man’s poison. It’s just the way things are. It’s not my job to tell them. Society is evolving. Times change. They’re not hurting anybody. What’s in a word? They’ll do it anyway. It’s only fair. Who made you ruler of the world? These are different times. That was before they had today’s understanding. Some of my best friends are. People have a right to decide for themselves. It’s my body; I can do with it what I want. It’s only natural. It’s okay if you love him/her. Aren’t you being a bit prudish? Your morals are your morals. God wants us to be happy, doesn’t He? All that matters is that you’re a good person. We are all a product of our environment. If that’s what makes you happy. The Bible is two thousand years old! The Church needs to be more relevant. A priest wouldn’t understand. Christianity is just an ideal. Nobody’s perfect. Says who? It’s just the way I see things. Religious people are the worst offenders! Why don’t they practice what they preach? It’s my choice. If you don’t mind, I’ll do it my way. My conscience is my guide. I don’t need an old man in a funny hat to tell me what’s right and wrong. Do you still believe in those fables? This is the 21st century! You always were a little backwards. It’s not sin when two people love each other. We need more love in this world. The Bible doesn’t say anything about that. It all depends on how you interpret it. What’s good for you is not necessarily good for me. Whatever makes you happy.

Oh my goodness, I swear I have heard every one of these from my sentimentalist MIL. Great post!

 

[JamesCaruso]

No man is an Island comes to mind.

The butterfly effect also but…the former was written by Thomas Merton.

Are we really so obfuscated by our own “thing” that we feel that the actions of others don’t affect us and ours in some way?

If marriage (one man and one woman united in the sacrament of marriage) meant nothing-then Jesus and Mary would not have found it important to attend the wedding at Cana. To seal and sactify that uniion with their presence and their actions.

They chose the wedding at Cana for the first intercession and the first miracle and the launching of Christ’s ministry. The beginning of a family and the fruits thereof. The start from a nucleus of society. Clean and healthy and holy!! A living cell of society-blessed by the grace and power of the most High Jesus Christ and His Blessed Mother.

Fast forward to today-the age of [gay marriage] it is a cancerous cell that will infect all of society and has already metasthasized. (however you spell that).

God help us, God forgive us.

It matters.

Calling it marriage is bad, but giving it a societal blessing by its legitimization in law and government policy, is like a doctor giving a patient with cancer a clean bill of health. It is reckless, reprehensible, and irreligious. Societal blessings of immorality-- abortion, homosexuality (the practice), gay marriage-- are heaping judgment upon our nation. Enough prayers of good men and women can tip the scale in our favor and instead of destroying this country, Jesus, through Our Lady’s powerful intercession, can bring about a great spiritual revival. We know that is what we need. We know that only prayer can bring this about. So what are we waiting for? I am firmly convinced that enough rosaries will turn this country back to God. Believe it.

 

[speakttruth]

Offenses against chastity

2351 *Lust *is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.
Chastity and homosexuality
2357 Homosexual-ity refers to relations (period) ( not homosexual tendencies) between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained.
Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved. ( not SSM, not civil unions, not parties, not TV shows, not anything that would show approval of their homosexuality)
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. (Acceptance of them, not homosexuality, as it states above can never be approved of, under any circumstance)
Every sign of unjust ( doesn’t say there are not some just reasons to discriminate, as in SSM) discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition. 2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of **disinterested **friendship( this means that they should be around people who support chastity, not promoting or supporting homosexuality, a sinful action), by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

These are the teachings of the Catholic Church, not everything we have to understand, but everything you have to believe. Believe it all or none of it. No Cafeteria Catholics, other wise you would be protestants and your welcome to leave and to join one of those Church’s, that’s your free will, God doesn’t force his love on anyone, but you will never change the Catholic Church to suit to your fancy. We are 2000 years old and still standing and we preach in and out of season. Jesus said people hated me first, so they will hate us too that stand up for the truth. Then we will bring glory to God.

To those who promote or support born that way theory
It’s doesn’t make a bit of difference if anyone was born that way. Predisposition to sin we all have. Some worse than others. It is not an excuse to sin. We don’t act on our impulses that would bring us to any sexual sin.
Then we would be like an animal with no intelligence to not know right from wrong.

** We don’t go along to get along and go with the flow. Flow of what?**
You want people to be damned or in heaven. How uncharitable would it be not to care about someone’s salvation to lie to them so as not to hurt their feelings. Feelings that could cause them to follow the path to hell? False compassion is not true love. Love in truth, not in lies.
GB

 

[JamesCaruso]

No Cafeteria Catholics, other wise you would be protestants and your welcome to leave and to join one of those Church’s, that’s your free will, God doesn’t force his love on anyone, but you will never change the Catholic Church to suit to your fancy.

Cafeteria Catholics are so called because they refuse to leave the Church, even though they have de facto may have already done so. The main excuses I know of are-- In the final analysis one must follow one’s conscience (sometimes followed by a reference to a priest who told them so)-- and-- it’s was not declared infallible, and until it is, I have the right to disbelieve! Too many Americans think that the highest form of government is a democracy and they carry this thinking into the Church. They campaign for change in the Church as if a ground well of dissenting Catholics will cause the Church to change its positions. I think they may see this as part of the greater role of laity involvement post-Vatican II.

 

[livingwordunity]

Cafeteria Catholics are so called because they refuse to leave the Church, even though they have de facto may have already done so. The main excuses I know of are-- In the final analysis one must follow one’s conscience (sometimes followed by a reference to a priest who told them so)-- and-- it’s was not declared infallible, and until it is, I have the right to disbelieve! ***Too many Americans think that the highest form of government is a democracy and they carry this thinking into the Church. *** They campaign for change in the Church as if a ground well of dissenting Catholics will cause the Church to change its positions. I think they may see this as part of the greater role of laity involvement post-Vatican II.

Well said. To answer the question “why does it matter?”, it matters to me because I know that it’s only a matter of time when my kids come home from school and tell me that the teacher told them that their parents are bigots for not accepting so-called “same-sex marriage”.

 

[mangy_dog]

I am with you all in that we need to pray the Rosary; to have a life of prayer and a life of the spirit-nurtured by the Sacraments of Confession and Communion.

America needs the Rosary and it needs to seek recourse to the Immaculate, Perpetual Virgin Mother of God…Our Lady of Guadalupe-Our Lady of the Americas.

 

[speakttruth]

Cafeteria Catholics are so called because they refuse to leave the Church, even though they have de facto may have already done so. The main excuses I know of are-- In the final analysis one must follow one’s conscience (sometimes followed by a reference to a priest who told them so)-- and-- it’s was not declared infallible, and until it is, I have the right to disbelieve! Too many Americans think that the highest form of government is a democracy and they carry this thinking into the Church. They campaign for change in the Church as if a ground well of dissenting Catholics will cause the Church to change its positions. I think they may see this as part of the greater role of laity involvement post-Vatican II.

What is it that you don’t believe and what priest told you what? Priest are not perfect either, I have met some unfaithful priests that would encourage homosexuality. Against the Church teachings. That is why we have the Catechism and if you listen to the Pope he is pretty good as teaching us the gospel. If they teach something different than the Catholic church teachings on faith and morals and that would be infallible by the way, Church doctrines, they are not to be listen to and reported to the bishop.

You have free will to disbelieve and what right is it? God doesn’t have a constitution, he has the commandments.
What you may not understand and have questions about in the church teaches is one things, but to disbelieve and call her a liar is a sin because the church is the one true church and she doesn’t lie on faith and morals. You would not be in communion with the church. and If you don’t continue to form your conscience and pridefully ( actually a huge sin) disagree with the church teachings, that would be also a problems with being a faithful Catholic. Ever read examination of conscience in detail before confession? Or don’t you believe in confession? Ignorance of our faith as Catholics is not an excuse to sin. We must continually learn our faith, it may take some longer, but we aren’t suppose to say ok I am all done I don’t have to learn anymore and you know that part about gay marriage, I don’t believe that, and that part about adultery or going to church on Sundays, I don’t believe that. That’s a Cafeteria Catholic and you would be in serious sin.

The laity of the church are suppose to have a greater role in the spirituality of the church, not the physically aspects, that another misinterpretation. I think if you pull out a Catechism you might find it helpful to form your conscience. But with the more you learn much is expected, so we can’t be Lukewarm Catholics either. Jesus said that he couldn’t stand Lukewarm and he would rather you be hot or cold, but lukewarm he will spit us out.

If people don’t like the rules of the church they can leave and the reason why so many have already left was because they were not being fed and lied to in most cases and just preached on social justice, and not on what is sin. Don’t know your faith you better start learning if you want to be a faithful Catholic.
I have done this, used to be a Cafeteria Catholic myself, didn’t even go to church, I have repented and I know the truth about my faith, know everything? No still learning, but I do know that Gay marriage is not what the church teaches and that my fellow Catholics is where your soul would be in danger. To be charitable I must tell you the truth. God bless

 

[speakttruth]

Well said. To answer the question “why does it matter?”, it matters to me because I know that it’s only a matter of time when my kids come home from school and tell me that the teacher told them that their parents are bigots for not accepting so-called “same-sex marriage”.

And wouldn’t they be wonderful teachers for judging you, and what example would you show your children?

Did they call Jesus names? What did he do about it? Oh yeah, he died for us. How about what Jesus said. They hated me first and so they will hate you because of me. This is when we preach the truth. We are not here to go along to get along.
If we are called Catholics we should live by our faith and we should know that Same Sex Marriage is wrong.
GB

 

[JamesCaruso]

What is it that you don’t believe and what priest told you what? Priest are not perfect either, I have met some unfaithful priests that would encourage homosexuality. Against the Church teachings. That is why we have the Catechism and if you listen to the Pope he is pretty good as teaching us the gospel. If they teach something different than the Catholic church teachings on faith and morals and that would be infallible by the way, Church doctrines, they are not to be listen to and reported to the bishop.

You have free will to disbelieve and what right is it? God doesn’t have a constitution, he has the commandments.
What you may not understand and have questions about in the church teaches is one things, but to disbelieve and call her a liar is a sin because the church is the one true church and she doesn’t lie on faith and morals. You would not be in communion with the church. and If you don’t continue to form your conscience and pridefully ( actually a huge sin) disagree with the church teachings, that would be also a problems with being a faithful Catholic. Ever read examination of conscience in detail before confession? Or don’t you believe in confession? Ignorance of our faith as Catholics is not an excuse to sin. We must continually learn our faith, it may take some longer, but we aren’t suppose to say ok I am all done I don’t have to learn anymore and you know that part about gay marriage, I don’t believe that, and that part about adultery or going to church on Sundays, I don’t believe that. That’s a Cafeteria Catholic and you would be in serious sin.

The laity of the church are suppose to have a greater role in the spirituality of the church, not the physically aspects, that another misinterpretation. I think if you pull out a Catechism you might find it helpful to form your conscience. But with the more you learn much is expected, so we can’t be Lukewarm Catholics either. Jesus said that he couldn’t stand Lukewarm and he would rather you be hot or cold, but lukewarm he will spit us out.

If people don’t like the rules of the church they can leave and the reason why so many have already left was because they were not being fed and lied to in most cases and just preached on social justice, and not on what is sin. Don’t know your faith you better start learning if you want to be a faithful Catholic.
I have done this, used to be a Cafeteria Catholic myself, didn’t even go to church, I have repented and I know the truth about my faith, know everything? No still learning, but I do know that Gay marriage is not what the church teaches and that my fellow Catholics is where your soul would be in danger. To be charitable I must tell you the truth. God bless

You should reread my post. I said exactly the opposite of what you think I said. Catholics often justify beliefs that are contrary to the Church by saying that they must follow their conscience. Myself, I believe every doctrine the Catholic Church teaches. I am a Boarding House Catholic-- I eat whatever they serve. They have an excellent cook, too, because I find it all to my liking.

 

[JamesCaruso]

And wouldn’t they be wonderful teachers for judging you, and what example would you show your children?

Did they call Jesus names? What did he do about it? Oh yeah, he died for us. How about what Jesus said. They hated me first and so they will hate you because of me. This is when we preach the truth. We are not here to go along to get along.
If we are called Catholics we should live by our faith and we should know that Same Sex Marriage is wrong.
GB

I think you missed the poit. Parents should not want the schools filling their children’s heads with wrong and immoral ideas, not to mention, trying to turn their children against them as parents. I don’t think the poster was afraid of being called names for standing up for what was right; I think they feared the bad influence the school could have on their children who have young and impressionable minds. It’s hard enough to teach children without the schools interfering and making it harder. Think about it. Jesus would be very angry with adults who indoctrinate children with immoral notions. As a parent, I would be angry, too.

 

[speakttruth]

I think you missed the poit. Parents should not want the schools filling their children’s heads with wrong and immoral ideas, not to mention, trying to turn their children against them as parents. I don’t think the poster was afraid of being called names for standing up for what was right; I think they feared the bad influence the school could have on their children who have young and impressionable minds. It’s hard enough to teach children without the schools interfering and making it harder. Think about it. Jesus would be very angry with adults who indoctrinate children with immoral notions. As a parent, I would be angry, too.

Sorry if I misunderstood.
GB

 

[speakttruth]

You should reread my post. I said exactly the opposite of what you think I said. Catholics often justify beliefs that are contrary to the Church by saying that they must follow their conscience. Myself, I believe every doctrine the Catholic Church teaches. I am a Boarding House Catholic-- I eat whatever they serve. They have an excellent cook, too, because I find it all to my liking.

Sorry I did miss the first part of the excuses for sin, on your previous post I just read go with the flow and then the rest. Glad to hear your a faithful Catholic. sometimes the threads are hard to follow, but I must upgrade my 264 computer brain,
my apologies.
GB

 

[livingwordunity]

Parents should not want the schools filling their children’s heads with wrong and immoral ideas, not to mention, trying to turn their children against them as parents. I don’t think the poster was afraid of being called names for standing up for what was right; I think they feared the bad influence the school could have on their children who have young and impressionable minds. It’s hard enough to teach children without the schools interfering and making it harder. Think about it. Jesus would be very angry with adults who indoctrinate children with immoral notions. As a parent, I would be angry, too.

:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:

 

[JamesCaruso]

Sorry I did miss the first part of the excuses for sin, on your previous post I just read go with the flow and then the rest. Glad to hear your a faithful Catholic. sometimes the threads are hard to follow, but I must upgrade my 264 computer brain,
my apologies.
GB

No problem.

 

[JamesCaruso]

Sorry if I misunderstood.
GB

No problem.