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bloo
Guest
“why have you forsaken me?” on the cross
i always wondered about that thank you
i always wondered about that thank you
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davidv
Guest
Because is bringing to mind Psalm 22.
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bcuster
Guest
As DavidV said, Jesus in quoting Psalm 22 which refers to Him.
Jesus is also identifying with or taking into himself the effects of Man’s (humankind, if you prefer) rejection of God beginning with Adam and Eve. God has not abandoned Jesus, neither has God abandoned us–just the opposite. Jesus has come to reunite all human people to the Trinity through His death and resurrection. Jesus feels the full weight of OUR sins and their affects on our souls.
He knows our weaknesses.
Jesus is also identifying with or taking into himself the effects of Man’s (humankind, if you prefer) rejection of God beginning with Adam and Eve. God has not abandoned Jesus, neither has God abandoned us–just the opposite. Jesus has come to reunite all human people to the Trinity through His death and resurrection. Jesus feels the full weight of OUR sins and their affects on our souls.
He knows our weaknesses.
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tessi
Guest
Jesus is in despair.
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danalad
Guest
As others have said, Jesus was referring back to the OT. He was fulfilling prophesy, not in despair.
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AmbroseSJ
Guest
Aside from the fact that He is quoting from the prophetic Psalm 22, Jesus, as the Son of Man, can truly cry out in anguish as the Psalmist did and ask God why he has forsaken Him. God has seemingly abandoned his Son to the powers of darkness. It is still a prayer to God. It is NOT despair. It is not unlike when one of us prays to God confused and wondering why He has allowed something to happen that is devastating to us. By the severity of the event, we may not perceive how any good can come of it, and so we pray in the same way.
In any event, it is most likely that Jesus, not only wanted to call to mind this prophetic psalm, but also to show us that we should still pray to God, no matter how bad things are; similar to His prayer in the Garden of Olives that God would take His cup away if it was possible. Where again, Jesus was showing us how to pray.
Jesus wants us to understand that even when we are in terrible pain, that is leaving us confused and feeling abandoned, God is there, and hears our prayer.
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rocketrob
Guest
I’m not sure how common this is, but I grew up with the mistaken impression that this moment on the cross illustrated a brief instant where either Jesus had a moment of doubt, or had the sudden realization the God would be abandoning him for three days when he descended into Hell.
I am embarrassed to admit that only recently in my life did I realize exactly what was going on here…that Jesus was directly quoting Psalm 22 (as stated above), which is a prophecy regarding Himself. Therefore, in reality, even at this agonizing moment in His Passion, Christ is completely focused on His mission. And what’s more, He let’s both the crowd present know this (and that He is the fulfillment of this prophecy), as well as all of us to this present day.
When you look at this moment in the proper light of revelation, the whole point and meaning of it changes.
rocketrob
I am embarrassed to admit that only recently in my life did I realize exactly what was going on here…that Jesus was directly quoting Psalm 22 (as stated above), which is a prophecy regarding Himself. Therefore, in reality, even at this agonizing moment in His Passion, Christ is completely focused on His mission. And what’s more, He let’s both the crowd present know this (and that He is the fulfillment of this prophecy), as well as all of us to this present day.
When you look at this moment in the proper light of revelation, the whole point and meaning of it changes.
rocketrob
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NotWorthy
Guest
Jesus is NOT crying out in despair.
By calling to mind the 1st line of Psalm 22, Jesus is calling to mind the entire Psalm. How does Psalm 22 end?
By calling to mind the 1st line of Psalm 22, Jesus is calling to mind the entire Psalm. How does Psalm 22 end?
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cazayoux
Guest
we need to be clear on the name ‘hell’.
It is my understanding that the way we use ‘hell’ today is not the way it was always used.
The place where satan resides is called ‘scheol’. This place is by definition, the absence of God. God (Jesus) himself would not be here.
The place Jesus went to was the ‘place of the dead’. He preached there and opened the gates of heaven to these souls.
I think these are the people that died before Jesus, except for those that we know went straight to heaven (Moses, Elijah, …).
When we say in the creed that Jesus descended into hell, it is the place of the dead, not the place where Satan is.
michel
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cazayoux
Guest
Wasn’t it practice for Jews to refer to a psalm by the first line? (rather than a number: 22)
I think His words were to draw us to the psalm and were not showing us despair, anguish, or confusion.
michel
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AmbroseSJ
Guest
I think that may be going too far in the other direction. While I agree it does not show despair, it is certainly expressive of anguish and the feeling of abandonment. I believe that Jesus in His human nature would certainly have felt this. However, as he was also the Son of God, he obviously knew he was not truly abandoned. But the abandonment is to unspeakable pain and anguish which is what I mean. If you take the view that Jesus was simply dispassionately throwing out “another prophecy fulfilled,” you risk denying or deprecating the human nature of Jesus. The passion of Jesus is just that, an unfathomable depth of feeling and passion, or Love of mankind, and thereby his redemption of us all.
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AmbroseSJ
Guest
This is contrary to Church teaching. Heaven was closed to all (including Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) until the Gates of Heaven were opened by our Redemption. Jesus himself states this.
John 3: 12-14:
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joseph_virgen
Guest
here is the Nazarene at his most human. he truly shares with us his human experience. who hasn’t felt abandoned by God at one time or another? from conception to death, you cannot say the Nazarene does not fully understand us.
this, of course, is a personal observation.
this, of course, is a personal observation.
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Ilroy
Guest
Close…Sheol was actually the place of the dead where the OT dead were waiting for the coming of Christ ad the opening of the gates of Heaven.
Gehenna was actually the place of the damned where satan resides.
As previously stated, no one was in Heaven before Chist opened the gates. These OT folks would have been waiting in what has been called the bosom of Abraham…
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cazayoux
Guest
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cazayoux
Guest
DOH!
Sorry about not getting that just right.
I certainly wish I had a better memory.
I think my wife wishes the same.
pray for me
michel
Sorry about not getting that just right.
I certainly wish I had a better memory.
I think my wife wishes the same.
pray for me
michel
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cazayoux
Guest
In no way would I deny or deprecate the human nature of Jesus.
I completely agree that the passion of Jesus is just that, an unfathomable depth of feeling and passion, or Love of mankind, and thereby his redemption of us all.
This doesn’t mean that I think he despaired on the cross. He knowingly and willing went through this pain for us. He knew that he was the great I AM and stated so. There was no despair in those last words. Nor do I see him flippant with “another prophecy fulfilled”, but that the fit of that psalm to Him was very powerful indeed. In fact I would say the summary message of the psalm is to *not * despair.
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