Why does one hate the Catholic Church?

[elvisman]

You have your faith, I have my God-given common sense and judgment. I think God and I will get along just fine, thank you.

**And that’s perfectly fine with me - as long as you keep your comments about the Church and what you perceive to be its “BS” to yourself.

 

[elvisman]

So then it doesn’t matter whether a Baptist church does this or yours? So then you don’t believe that there is any more offense of this against the so called only Church of God than with some Protestant denom? Hmmm. I thought that you viewed yourselves much more highly than that.

Actually - the fact is that there are many more documented cases of molestation ans sexual impropriety in the various Protestant sects in America than there were in the Catholic Church. Either way - it’s a tragedy.

Your folley is that you assume that the Catholic Church deems its clergy impeccable. This is an ignorant position because this has never been the case.

 

[elvisman]

Elvis, you need to learn the difference between being ignorant about what the CC teaches and simply not agreeing with something. Big difference. I could always change my ID to Educated if imperfect Catholic but then you would fit that description as well, as would all of us fit the imperfect part, including our non Catholic brothers and sisters here. Let the man without sin cast the first stone. I have no disdain for you or anyone. Peace.

Actually - you’ve shown both - ignorance and spiritual pride.

Your ignorance is is displayed when you claim that the truth is up for grabs and that everybody can be right. "Everybody’s ‘truth’ is okay with God as long as they believe in Jesus." This is moral relativism, plain and simple.

Your spiritual pride rears it’s ugly heas every time you reject a Church doctrine.
**So, you see - you have displayed both.
**
PS - Nobody’s casting stones here. It’s just that some of us will not put up with attacks against the Church and will defend it when the need arises.

 

[CMatt25]

It’s just that some of us will not put up with attacks against the Church.

Elvis, I guess we must also disagree on “attack”. But please don’t continue derailing this thread too making it about me as you have so many others. :yawn: But I hope you are having a reflective lenten season thus far and may His peace be with you for a joyously blessed Easter. God bless you my friend.

 

[KathleenGee]

The sex abuse in secular schools is 100% that of the clergy…and every institution has its social deviants…I am talking science here. Usual deviancy is about 3%. In our country, the clergy was about 5%. So it is a serious problem.

But then 95% of the clergy is exemplary. So to continue to stereotype the clergy as such is just that.

The greatest amount of abuse though is coming from secular society itself in its protection of pornography, abortion, and the promotion of sex for teens via Planned Parenthood. There are many Protestant people, mainline that support that institution. It has been known to cover abortions to minors involved with adults. Look at all the STD’s, the sex criminals and all their victims, our neighborhoods all have sex criminals living in them but we don’t know it.

It is the secular media that makes a heyday of the clergy abuse. There has been a great loss of discernment for vocations with the Holy Spirit, and seminarian councils permitting the wrong people into priest studies was to blame as well. They should have not been ordained.

 

[romesweethome]

The main reason for hatred of the church is the misunderstanding of the church’s teachings.

peace rsh

 

[schaick]

Why does one hate the Catholic Church?

I don’t hate the Catholic Church, I disagree with some of it’s teachings, but I don’t hate it.

What I hate is the **arrogance in thinking **that the Catholic Church is the **only member **of the church that Jesus is building.

Arrogance in thinking that the Catholic Church is the only church that the true presence in the Eucharist, that only the Pope or Catholic Church can be visited by the Holy Spirit, that only the Pope and Catholics can interprete that Holy Bible, that if you are not a member of the Catholic church then you are not in Jesus’ Church, that only the Catholic Church holds the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, that only the Catholic Church hold some mystery authority over th Kingdom of Heaven, etc…

The foundation of Jesus’ Church - teachings and preaching of the Apostles we have it in the Holy Bible. The Successor to the Apostles= the Holy Bible. The doors of the Kingdom of Heaven have been opened. There is no mystery or secret authority.

John 3
5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’

1 Peter 1
23For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
…
25but the word of the Lord stands forever." And this is the word that was preached to you.

1 Corinthians 4
15Even though you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.

Romans 1
16I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 17For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”

Corinthians 2
4My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, 5so that your faith might not rest on men’s wisdom, but on God’s power.

 

[elvisman]

Why does one hate the Catholic Church?

I don’t hate the Catholic Church, I disagree with some of it’s teachings, but I don’t hate it.

What I hate is the **arrogance **in thinking that the Catholic Church is the **only member **of the church that Jesus is building.

Arrogance in thinking that the Catholic Church is the only church that the true presence in the Eucharist, that only the Pope or Catholic Church can be visited by the Holy Spirit, that only the Pope and Catholics can interprete that Holy Bible, that if you are not a member of the Catholic church then you are not in Jesus’ Church, that only the Catholic Church holds the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, that only the Catholic Church hold some mystery authority over th Kingdom of Heaven, etc…

The foundation of Jesus’ Church - teachings and preaching of the Apostles we have it in the Holy Bible. The Successor to the Apostles= the Holy Bible. The doors of the Kingdom of Heaven have been opened. There is no mystery or secret authority.

John 3
5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’

1 Peter 1
23For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
…
25but the word of the Lord stands forever." And this is the word that was preached to you.

1 Corinthians 4
15Even though you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.

Romans 1
16I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 17For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”

Corinthians 2
4My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, 5so that your faith might not rest on men’s wisdom, but on God’s power.

First of all - it is not arrogant to be able to trace the Catholic Church back to Christ. It is the plain and simple truth.

What IS arrogant is to claim that you belong to the Church Christ established when you are clearly not. You must remember that Protestantism came some 1500 years later and was born out of ecclesiastical divorce.

Secondly - please show me - in the Bible - where it says that the Bible is our Authority or where it **says the “Successor to the Apostles = the Holy Bible”. It doesn’t even imply that. **
This is complete and utter nonsense.

 

[elvisman]

Elvis, I guess we must also disagree on “attack”. But please don’t continue derailing this thread too making it about me as you have so many others. :yawn: But I hope you are having a reflective lenten season thus far and may His peace be with you for a joyously blessed Easter. God bless you my friend.

**I haven’t derailed this thread at all. I was answering your challenges. You’re wrong, though - this thread IS about you and others like you.

Hatred of Christ’s Church doesn’t come merely in spewing venom directly against her. It comes disguised as people who claim to be Catholic (like you) yet reject her teachings. Scripture calls these types of false teachers as wolves in sheep’s clothing, who will be exposed by their fruits (Matt. 7:15-20).

You must remember that half-truths and lies you spread about Christ and his Church - especially on a forum like this where millions are reading - are taken as truth by those who are poorly catechized. You are twisting the truth to your own destruction and leading others away from it with your moral relativism.

My job - as a defender of the truth is to expose people like you for the sake of others and, in doing so, maybe you will finally see the truth and stop misrepresenting the Church.

 

[Darron_Steele]

**I *haven’t ***derailed this thread at all. I was answering your challenges. You’re wrong, though - this thread IS about you and others like you.

**Hatred of Christ’s Church doesn’t **come merely in spewing venom directly against her…

Okay, this is ridiculous. Criticism is not hatred.

I love the Churches of Christ. I no longer identify with the Churches of Christ because of their problems and how they would affect me, but I invested a lot of time and energy in trying to be a productive contributor to them after leaving.

I love the Disciples of Christ. I attend a local congregation. I do not agree with what our denominational agencies do. I am a blunt critic of what our denominational agencies do.

My wife loves me, but I am not perfect. When needed, she gives me criticisms.

I recently had a recent high school graduate in one of my college classes. The kid had a great head on his shoulders, but was making a number of reckless decisions that I saw to be a pattern and potential trouble later in life. I gave that kid quite a few bit of criticisms – because I cared.

If your line of thinking is correct, then parents who criticize their children do not love them. My wife would not love me. Obviously, that is not true – and accusations of such would be considered vile things.

This whole notion that CMatt25 hates the Catholic Church because he does not agree with everything the Vatican does, and he `dares’ to say so, is ridiculous. You are not a mind reader; you know nothing about how he feels.

**If you are going to be so vicious, you better be sure you are right – because as ruthless as you are being, if you are not right, the Lord will not be happy. I would take this as a warning, because
a) you have no way of being certain if you are right, and
b) if you are wrong, the Lord may vindicate him and chastise you.
Me, I would not think it is worth the risk.
**

---

Further, you play into the cause of real Catholic Church haters when you deem criticism hatred. It makes people believe that if criticizing the Catholic Church is hating it, then there is no such thing as hating the Catholic Church. Hence, the real haters of the Catholic Church get away with denying that they hate the Catholic Church.

 

[tweetymom]

Okay, this is ridiculous. Criticism is not hatred.

I love the Churches of Christ. I no longer identify with the Churches of Christ because of their problems and how they would affect me, but I invested a lot of time and energy in trying to be a productive contributor to them after leaving.

I love the Disciples of Christ. I attend a local congregation. I do not agree with what our denominational agencies do. I am a blunt critic of what our denominational agencies do.

My wife loves me, but I am not perfect. When needed, she gives me criticisms.

I recently had a recent high school graduate in one of my college classes. The kid had a great head on his shoulders, but was making a number of reckless decisions that I saw to be a pattern and potential trouble later in life. I gave that kid quite a few bit of criticisms – because I cared.

If your line of thinking is correct, then parents who criticize their children do not love them. My wife would not love me. Obviously, that is not true – and accusations of such would be considered vile things.

This whole notion that CMatt25 hates the Catholic Church because he does not agree with everything the Vatican does, and he `dares’ to say so, is ridiculous. You are not a mind reader; you know nothing about how he feels.

**If you are going to be so vicious, you better be sure you are right – because as ruthless as you are being, if you are not right, the Lord will not be happy. I would take this as a warning, because
a) you have no way of being certain if you are right, and
b) if you are wrong, the Lord may vindicate him and chastise you.
Me, I would not think it is worth the risk.
**

---

Further, you play into the cause of real Catholic Church haters when you deem criticism hatred. It makes people believe that if criticizing the Catholic Church is hating it, then there is no such thing as hating the Catholic Church. Hence, the real haters of the Catholic Church get away with denying that they hate the Catholic Church.

Great post and I couldn’t have said it better. At one tithis man was on my case about the same thing and will again i am sure. I try really hard to ignore him cause it feeds his ego to argue with him. I hope God is as pleased with him as he is with hmself:shrug:

 

[PORATH]

CMATT25 AND ELVISMAN,

Your arguement has become cyclical at this point and clearly continuing on from another thread(s).

It is our responsibility to teach others the truth of Catholic teaching. A person is either consistent with those teachings or they are not. They either agree with them or they are not. If they do not hold those teachings to be absolute then that person is not in communion with the Church Christ Himself established. Knowing the what the Church teaches then rejecting or disagreeing with it is heretical and we must realign our behavior so that we may continue to be faithful to Christ.

 

[Darron_Steele]

CMATT25 AND ELVISMAN,

Your arguement has become cyclical at this point and clearly continuing on from another thread(s).

It is our responsibility to teach others the truth of Catholic teaching. A person is either consistent with those teachings or they are not. They either agree with them or they are not. If they do not hold those teachings to be absolute then that person is not in communion with the Church Christ Himself established. Knowing the what the Church teaches then rejecting or disagreeing with it is heretical and we must realign our behavior so that we may continue to be faithful to Christ.

Porath: to some extend I am in sympathy with what you are saying.

I understand criticizing someone who is in the Catholic Church who will not agree with its teachings. While I might disagree with the criticisms, I totally understand criticizing such a person.

However, accusing such a person of hating the Catholic Church is a matter of much greater severity. I have seen people who genuine hate the Catholic Church and its people, and to compare a loving critic of the Catholic Church with such toxic people is not fair.

 

[CMatt25]

CMATT25 AND ELVISMAN,

Your arguement has become cyclical at this point and clearly continuing on from another thread(s).

It is our responsibility to teach others the truth of Catholic teaching. A person is either consistent with those teachings or they are not. They either agree with them or they are not. If they do not hold those teachings to be absolute then that person is not in communion with the Church Christ Himself established. Knowing the what the Church teaches then rejecting or disagreeing with it is heretical and we must realign our behavior so that we may continue to be faithful to Christ.

1267 Baptism makes us members of the Body of Christ: "Therefore . . . we are members one of another. Baptism incorporates us into the Church. From the baptismal fonts is born the one People of God of the New Covenant, which transcends all the natural or human limits of nations, cultures, races, and sexes: “For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body.”

1280 Baptism imprints on the soul an indelible spiritual sign, the character, which consecrates the baptized person for Christian worship. Because of the character Baptism cannot be repeated

1271 Baptism constitutes the foundation of communion among all Christians, including those who are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church: "For men who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in some, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. Justified by faith in Baptism, [they] are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church. "Baptism therefore constitutes the sacramental bond of unity existing among all who through it are reborn.

In communion with each other, let all of us who profess Christ our Lord, those of us incorporated into the Catholic Church by baptism and all Christians, go forth in His name to His glory. Not speaking about hate. But in a love with no boundries. Though imperfect as we are, it only is what I strive to do.

 

[PORATH]

Porath: to some extend I am in sympathy with what you are saying.

I understand criticizing someone who is in the Catholic Church who will not agree with its teachings. While I might disagree with the criticisms, I totally understand criticizing such a person.

However, accusing such a person of hating the Catholic Church is a matter of much greater severity. I have seen people who genuine hate the Catholic Church and its people, and to compare a loving critic of the Catholic Church with such toxic people is not fair.

The Catholic Faith is defined in three places. The Bible, Sacred Tradition, and the Catechism. We use these, with guidance from the Holy Spirit, as our standard for determining if we are in communion with the Catholic Church. If we argue against the teachings of the Church then we cannot be numbered among the faithful of the, ONE, TRUE, CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH. I agree that the term “hate” may be extreme in some cases but those not in communion and profess their disagreements so as to convince others are indeed heretical. It is our sinful human nature that prevents us from accepting the Teachings of the Catholic Church since they are often difficult to adhere too. Another post spoke to this quite well saying that there is a difference between the “Catholic Culture” and a “practicing or non-practicing” Catholic. You may be a member of the Catholic Culture but adhering to and defending the Teachings of the Catholic Church places you in harmony and union with Christ and His Church. So, let’s be careful of accusing others of “hating” the Catholic Church but let us not minimize the damage done by those saying they are Catholic without believing the 2000 years of Tradition, Biblical understanding, and clearly defined Teachings of the Church.

 

[PORATH]

1267 Baptism makes us members of the Body of Christ: "Therefore . . . we are members one of another. Baptism incorporates us into the Church. From the baptismal fonts is born the one People of God of the New Covenant, which transcends all the natural or human limits of nations, cultures, races, and sexes: “For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body.”

1280 Baptism imprints on the soul an indelible spiritual sign, the character, which consecrates the baptized person for Christian worship. Because of the character Baptism cannot be repeated

1271 Baptism constitutes the foundation of communion among all Christians, including those who are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church: "For men who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in some, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. Justified by faith in Baptism, [they] are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church. "Baptism therefore constitutes the sacramental bond of unity existing among all who through it are reborn.

In communion with each other, let all of us who profess Christ our Lord, those of us incorporated into the Catholic Church by baptism and all Christians, go forth in His name to His glory. Not speaking about hate. But in a love with no boundries. Though imperfect as we are, it only is what I strive to do.

Are you in some way refuting my comment? Not sure of your point. Forgive me if I am missing the obvious.

 

[CMatt25]

Forgive me if I am missing the obvious.

Porath, of course. And likewise me if I have not glorified Him. God bless!

 

[elvisman]

Okay, this is ridiculous. Criticism is not hatred.

I love the Churches of Christ. I no longer identify with the Churches of Christ because of their problems and how they would affect me, but I invested a lot of time and energy in trying to be a productive contributor to them after leaving.

I love the Disciples of Christ. I attend a local congregation. I do not agree with what our denominational agencies do. I am a blunt critic of what our denominational agencies do.

My wife loves me, but I am not perfect. When needed, she gives me criticisms.

I recently had a recent high school graduate in one of my college classes. The kid had a great head on his shoulders, but was making a number of reckless decisions that I saw to be a pattern and potential trouble later in life. I gave that kid quite a few bit of criticisms – because I cared.

If your line of thinking is correct, then parents who criticize their children do not love them. My wife would not love me. Obviously, that is not true – and accusations of such would be considered vile things.

This whole notion that CMatt25 hates the Catholic Church because he does not agree with everything the Vatican does, and he `dares’ to say so, is ridiculous. You are not a mind reader; you know nothing about how he feels.

If you are going to be so vicious, you better be sure you are right – because as ruthless as you are being, if you are not right, the Lord will not be happy. I would take this as a warning, because
a) you have no way of being certain if you are right, and

b) if you are wrong, the Lord may vindicate him and chastise you.
Me, I would not think it is worth the risk.

---

Further, you play into the cause of real Catholic Church haters when you deem criticism hatred. It makes people believe that if criticizing the Catholic Church is hating it, then there is no such thing as hating the Catholic Church. Hence, the real haters of the Catholic Church get away with denying that they hate the Catholic Church.

Nobody** is being ruthless. Some of you mistake admonishing an unruly member for ruthlessness. We are commanded to do this as an act of mercy (1 Thess. 5:14), even to the point of shunning them if they continue in their rejection (2 Thess. 3:6).**

---

**You are wrong about a few things: I DO know that what I’m saying is right – not because I said it but because the Church teaches it. The Church is the Body of Christ, the Pillar and foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15) and He does not lie. This doesn’t make Elvisman right – it makes the CHURCH right. I am only espousing what the Body of Christ has taught.

---

Your** brand of “Lone Ranger Christianity” is not only unsupported by Scripture – it is rejected (Rom. 12, 2 Thess. 3)**

---

The problem with many non-Catholics is that they seem to think the truth is up for grabs – and that their many splintered sects can contain the fullness of truth. **
WRONG.**
Only the Church Christ himself established contains the fullness of truth.
You know who said that? **
GOD did (Matt. 16:15-19, 18:15-18, John 16:12-15, 20:21-23, 1 Tim. 3:15).

 

[Roblox84]

Nobody** is being ruthless. Some** of you mistake admonishing an unruly member for ruthlessness. We are commanded to do this as an act of mercy (1 Thess. 5:14), even to the point of shunning them if they continue in their rejection (2 Thess. 3:6).

---

You are wrong about a few things: I DO know that what I’m saying is right – not because *I *said it but because the Church teaches it. The Church is the Body of Christ, the Pillar and foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15) and He does not lie. This doesn’t make Elvisman right – it makes the CHURCH right. I am only espousing what the Body of Christ has taught.

---

Your** brand of “Lone Ranger Christianity” is not only unsupported by Scripture – it is rejected** (Rom. 12, 2 Thess. 3)

---

The problem with many non-Catholics is that they seem to think the truth is up for grabs – and that their many splintered sects can contain the fullness of truth.
WRONG**.**
Only the Church Christ himself** established contains the fullness of truth.
You know who said that?
GOD did (Matt. 16:15-19, 18:15-18, John 16:12-15, 20:21-23, 1 Tim. 3:15).

I was wondering, if protestants think the truth is up for grabs by anyone, then why even bother going to church since their churches aren’t about worshiping God, but about learning the bible and everyone can learn the bible the same way at home. And why even take the Pastors opinion on the bible passages seriously if everyone else is just as skilled at interpreting them?

 

[elvisman]

CMATT25 AND ELVISMAN,

Your arguement has become cyclical at this point and clearly continuing on from another thread(s).

It is our responsibility to teach others the truth of Catholic teaching. A person is either consistent with those teachings or they are not. They either agree with them or they are not. If they do not hold those teachings to be absolute then that person is not in communion with the Church Christ Himself established. Knowing the what the Church teaches then rejecting or disagreeing with it is heretical and we must realign our behavior so that we may continue to be faithful to Christ.

Sorry - but I would have to disagree with your first point.

**This is a forum for discussion about matters such as these. Part of the function of such a forum is to debate by providing evidence. **

**So far, ample evidence has been presented to prove to our fallen away brother CMatt25 that he is heterodox in his beliefs and that would-be Catholic such as he - and others - poison the minds of those less-catechized Catholics, who are hungry to learn. **
It is for them that I challenge and expose his erroneous rants on this forum.

To a poorly-catechized Catholic - the ignorant Catholic is MUCH more dangerous than a full-blown Protestant.