Why does one hate the Catholic Church?

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Prodigal_Son1 said:
God did not ‘speak’ scriptures. He inspired them through the men He chose and appointed over His Church, and those that they appointed.
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101 In order to reveal himself to men, in the condescension of his goodness God speaks to them in human words: "Indeed the words of God, expressed in the words of men, are in every way like human language, just as the Word of the eternal Father, when he took on himself the flesh of human weakness, became like men."63
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102 Through all the words of Sacred Scripture, God speaks only one single Word, his one Utterance in whom he expresses himself completely:
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109 In Sacred Scripture, God speaks to man in a human way. To interpret Scripture correctly, the reader must be attentive to what the human authors truly wanted to affirm, and to what God wanted to reveal to us by their words.75
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Rightlydivide said:
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Give it all…
110 In order to discover the sacred authors’ intention, the reader must take into account the conditions of their time and culture, the literary genres in use at that time, and the modes of feeling, speaking and narrating then current. "For the fact is that truth is differently presented and expressed in the various types of historical writing, in prophetical and poetical texts, and in other forms of literary expression."76
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111 But since Sacred Scripture is inspired, there is another and no less important principle of correct interpretation, without which Scripture would remain a dead letter. "Sacred Scripture must be read and interpreted in the light of the same Spirit by whom it was written."77
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The Second Vatican Council indicates three criteria for interpreting Scripture in accordance with the Spirit who inspired it.78
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112 Be especially attentive “to the content and unity of the whole Scripture”. Different as the books which compose it may be, Scripture is a unity by reason of the unity of God’s plan, of which Christ Jesus is the center and heart, open since his Passover.79
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The phrase “heart of Christ” can refer to Sacred Scripture, which makes known his heart, closed before the Passion, as the Scripture was obscure. But the Scripture has been opened since the Passion; since those who from then on have understood it, consider and discern in what way the prophecies must be interpreted.80
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113 2.** Read the Scripture within “the living Tradition of the whole Church”. According to a saying of the Fathers, Sacred Scripture is written principally in the Church’s heart rather than in documents and records, for the Church carries in her Tradition the living memorial of God’s Word, and it is the Holy Spirit who gives her the spiritual interpretation of the Scripture (". . . according to the spiritual meaning which the Spirit grants to the Church"81).**
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114 3. Be attentive to the analogy of faith.82 By “analogy of faith” we mean the coherence of the truths of faith among themselves and within the whole plan of Revelation.
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The problem lies within people ‘bending’ scriptures to fit their theology.

When it’s convenient that it’s not written, HOORAY for them, it means whatever and however they wish to apply it. Of course to take such liberties with scriptures, ignores those things that are clearly explained, like the authoritative Church Christ established and how we are to obey our prelates and be subject to them. Those that take those liberties have assumed their own authority to maintain their theological independence from things we should obey. It’s almost like obeying God the way they are willing to obey Him, as opposed to obeying God as He wants to be obeyed…
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
The problem lies within people ‘bending’ scriptures to fit their theology.

When it’s convenient that it’s not written, HOORAY for them, it means whatever and however they wish to apply it. Of course to take such liberties with scriptures, ignores those things that are clearly explained, like the authoritative Church Christ established and how we are to obey our prelates and be subject to them. Those that take those liberties have assumed their own authority to maintain their theological independence from things we should obey. It’s almost like obeying God the way they are willing to obey Him, as opposed to obeying God as He wants to be obeyed…
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Where does the Bible say to “obey your ‘prelates?’” The Bible can mean whatever Catholics want it to mean by sticking in a little “tradition” to make it “fit” together for certain doctrinal defences. The Bible existed before the Church, and is God’s final authority on earth.
 
Rightlydivide said:
Point remains. God speaks scriptures according to the Catechism. Heck…even I knew that.
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I guess some need that to maintain the private interpretation independence…

Just as when some read scriptures about ‘word’, they misread other documents the same way. It’s not a literal speaking, as some are trying to make it be. Just as everytime in scriptures you see the word of God, it does not mean written. But, people are going to apply it how they want to maintain that interpretational independence, thereby allowing them freedom to worship as they are willing. 🤷
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
I guess some need that to maintain the private interpretation independence…

Just as when some read scriptures about ‘word’, they misread other documents the same way. It’s not a literal speaking, as some are trying to make it be. Just as everytime in scriptures you see the word of God, it does not mean written. But, people are going to apply it how they want to maintain that interpretational independence, thereby allowing them freedom to worship as they are willing. 🤷
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God speaks scriptures. Catechism says it. You can disagree with every interpretation for the last 50 posts, not my point. As a Catholic, your catechism says that God speaks scriptures. You said “God doesn’t 'speak scriptures”.
Its okay to grow in your own knowledge of what your church teaches and admit when you do or if you misspoke. Its okay to admit those things.
 
Protestant101 said:
Where does the Bible say to “obey your ‘prelates?’” The Bible can mean whatever Catholics want it to mean by sticking in a little “tradition” to make it “fit” together for certain doctrinal defences. The Bible existed before the Church, and is God’s final authority on earth.
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**Heb 13:17 Obey your prelates and be subject to them. For they watch as being to render an account of your souls: that they may do this with joy and not with grief. For this is not expedient for you. **
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The Old Testament existed before the Church. The New Testament, written years after the death and resurrection of Christ, tells us Christ built a Church, chose and appointed/ordained men and gave instructions for people to take disputes the to the Church. The Church came first, and the scriptures came from the men of the Church.

I guess you also believe if the King James Version was good enough for Christ, it’s good enough for you? 😛
 
Protestant101 said:
Where does the Bible say to “obey your ‘prelates?’” The Bible can mean whatever Catholics want it to mean by sticking in a little “tradition” to make it “fit” together for certain doctrinal defences. The Bible existed before the Church, and is God’s final authority on earth.
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From someone ignorant of Church history and of scripture

To think that someone who wants only proof from the bible yet doesn’t even know scripture!

Woe to the victims of Bible Alone

16 And do not forget to do good, and to impart; for by such sacrifices God’s favour is obtained. 17 Obey your prelates, and be subject to them. For they watch as being to render an account of your souls; that they may do this with joy, and not with grief. For this is not expedient for you.
 
Rightlydivide said:
God speaks scriptures. Catechism says it. You can disagree with every interpretation for the last 50 posts, not my point. As a Catholic, your catechism says that God speaks scriptures. You said “God doesn’t 'speak scriptures”.
Its okay to grow in your own knowledge of what your church teaches and admit when you do or if you misspoke. Its okay to admit those things.
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You cannot teach what you do not believe. Snide remarks make for an intelletual dishonest discussion, wouldn’t you agree…:rolleyes:

God did not speak scriptures the way it’s being portrayed and you know it.
 
It’s hard for some to accept the authority of the Church, when their Church wasn’t founded until the late 1800s…
 
Protestant101 said:
Where does the Bible say to “obey your ‘prelates?’” The Bible can mean whatever Catholics want it to mean by sticking in a little “tradition” to make it “fit” together for certain doctrinal defences. The Bible existed before the Church, and is God’s final authority on earth.
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The Bible existed before the Church?

So you’re saying that if I walked around in the year 35 A.D. that I could ask someone, “Please give me a Bible,” and a Bible would be slapped on my hand, but if I asked someone, “May I join the Church today?”, that the Christian I was talking to would have no clue what I was talking about?
 
Protestant101 said:
Where does the Bible say to “obey your ‘prelates?’” The Bible can mean whatever Catholics want it to mean by sticking in a little “tradition” to make it “fit” together for certain doctrinal defences. The Bible existed before the Church, and is God’s final authority on earth.
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The miraculous thing is, it fits perfectly in the CC. NT did not exist, so no, it was not before the Church. that is why we have the description of the Church recorded. the Letters were mostly written to address issues within the Church. so, yes the Church had already started. Scriptures came way before your congregation was found, this is true.

i bet you cannot show us any witness of your churches back in 70 BC, 100BC, 400BC, and so forth. jehova’s witness, assemblies of God, methodist, baptist, presbyterians and so forth. can you? i bet you will find witnesses for the CC.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
You cannot teach what you do not believe. Snide remarks make for an intelletual dishonest discussion, wouldn’t you agree…:rolleyes:

God did not speak scriptures the way it’s being portrayed and you know it.
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You said
God did not ‘speak’ scriptures. He inspired them through the men He chose and appointed over His Church, and those that they appointed.
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If anything, instead of focusing on his claims about authority, you made a false dichotomy that should not exist by your example I quoted above. You switched the topic and attempted to make a distinction between “God speaking” and inspiration. If you believe that you were misunderstood, state how. It will not be Catholicism though because they do not make that distinction as we do not either.
Its something we agree on. If anything, I am either refuting a lack of clarity or something that is not orthodox Catholic teaching on scripture. I vote for lack of clarity knowing you because I know you wish to be orthodox in your presentation of Catholic teaching…which in this case corresponds to our beliefs as well.
 
Rightlydivide said:
You said

If anything, instead of focusing on his claims about authority, you made a false dichotomy that should not exist by your example I quoted above. You switched the topic and attempted to make a distinction between “God speaking” and inspiration. If you believe that you were misunderstood, state how. It will not be Catholicism though because they do not make that distinction as we do not either.
Its something we agree on. If anything, I am either refuting a lack of clarity or something that is not orthodox Catholic teaching on scripture. I vote for lack of clarity knowing you because I know you wish to be orthodox in your presentation of Catholic teaching…which in this case corresponds to our beliefs as well.
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How was I misunderstood? I suspect debliberately, as usual. I have made it clear enough for those not seeking to undermine the Catholic Church. I’m not into playing the ‘semantics’ game for the sake of the people ‘claiming’ their ‘orthodoxy’. There are always those who deliberately twist Catholic posts to make them seem ‘less than Catholic’, or as if they are agreeing with those challenging Catholicism, or even to try and demonstrate a lack of faith, all of which is dishonest in these discussions.

Beleive me, with only a week of experiencing SDA approach of conversions, I stand firm in my faith even more.
 
Forgive my denseness, but what is SDA?
I’ve had to repeat many acronyms and tried to figure them out on the boards but I can’t seem to understand this one 😊
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
How was I misunderstood? I suspect debliberately, as usual. I have made it clear enough for those not seeking to undermine the Catholic Church. I’m not into playing the ‘semantics’ game for the sake of the people ‘claiming’ their ‘orthodoxy’. There are always those who deliberately twist Catholic posts to make them seem ‘less than Catholic’, or as if they are agreeing with those challenging Catholicism, or even to try and demonstrate a lack of faith, all of which is dishonest in these discussions.

Beleive me, with only a week of experiencing SDA approach of conversions, I stand firm in my faith even more.
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What is the difference between God speaking and inspiritation in your estimation then?
 
Loboto-Me said:
Forgive my denseness, but what is SDA?
I’ve had to repeat many acronyms and tried to figure them out on the boards but I can’t seem to understand this one 😊
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Seventh Day Adventists

Seems the majority are veiled behind the generalization of ‘Protestant’ 🤷
 
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