Why does our Current Pope Support World Goverment?

[ISeekOnlyTruth]

I have many questions today regarding my Catholic Faith. I was raised a Catholic and I do practice my religion; however I have some important questions and concerns that I have not been able to get answered. Religion is a touchy subject and I am not looking to offend anyone, but I am one who looks for truth no matters how hard it is to believe. I know there are many horrible things occurring in the world today that the average person won’t even look into. I realize people are living in fear and in denial about what is really going on today. I see this often today when people bring up facts and truths and are immediately attacked and dismissed by people who can’t face the issues head on. My sole purpose it to find out the truth, not to just believe whatever I find to be comforting. The Truth! If anything I bring up was already brought up at one point on this forum please forgive me.

My first questions are going to deal with both the current Pope and John Paul II. Now many Catholics I know immediately defend the popes believing they are incapable of wrong doing, but they won’t deal with the issues!

1. Both John Paul II and Pope Benedict have on numerous occasions called for a “New World Order” and both seemingly support a one world government. I am VERY concerned by this as a Catholic. The Pope is a powerful voice in the world and many people will support anything the Pope says simply because of who he is. As reported in Reuters Pope Benedict said, “

Countries that act unilaterally on the world stage undermine the authority of the United Nations and weaken the broad consensus needed to confront global problems, Pope Benedict said on Friday.

informationliberation.com/index.php?id=25144

First who gave the United Nations any authority over the world? Second how can a pope support such a corrupt organization as the UN? I have a big problem with this. The article goes on to say:

The Pope’s comments are of little surprise, given the fact that he has previously called for a “new world order” to combat terrorism, environmental problems, as well as economic imbalances during his Christmas 2005 speech. Pope John Paul II also called for a new world order in a 2004 new years speech.

An interesting perspective on these comments comes from a 1970’s report called the “World Order Models Project.” The report was funded by the Carnegie Foundation and Rockefeller Foundations, and was directed by Council on Foreign Relations member Saul H. Mendlovitz. Richard A. Falk, also a CFR member, contributed work to the project.

The project called for the formation of a world government complete with global taxes, a general disarmament program and the elimination of the nation state.

The WOMP project also planned on selling these globalist ideals to the world by using prominent world leaders to promote the plans and begin molding the international dialectic around globalist perceptions. The Pope was named as a possible outlet. The project states,

“Symbolic world leaders such as the Secretary General of the United Nations or the Pope might espouse [the WOMP agenda]… as a program for the future… These kinds of external developments… would initiate a world order dialectic within American politics that would begin to break down decades of adherence to [the Westphalian system] and its infrastructure of values, perceptions and institutions.”

In a 1997 paper presented to the Research Department of the Air Command and Staff College, Maj. Bart R. Kessler outlined the plans of the World Order Models Project and many other globalist initiatives. His paper can be read here. Reference to the use of the Pope in promoting globalist ideology, as well as citation, can be found on page 25 of this report.

informationliberation.com/index.php?id=25144

Has the pope sold out to those powerful individuals pushing for World Government?

1. Why hasn’t Pope Benedict spoken up against torture? I really thought that this would be one of the Popes main messages to the American people during his visit. Instead he blessed the UN Flag! America is moving towards fascism and great economic difficulties, and not enough Christians are speaking up against our government and our lose of freedoms. The following article is a good read for Catholics, and I share many of the Authors concerns and disappointments. Please read and share your feelings.

consortiumnews.com/2008/042108a.html

I am only touching the surface of some of the concerns. I welcome all discussion, but I do ask that you don’t simply dismiss these facts without any logical reasons. Simply finding something hard to believe or accept doesn’t make it not true.

 

[thistle]

I assume you are joking!!

The Pope does not want a one world government. Show me his exact words that say he wants a one world government.

He does (often) speak out against not just toture but all evils committed by individuals and governments.

You are not one of these people who think there is a conspiracy round every corner are you?

 

[ISeekOnlyTruth]

I assume you are joking!!

The Pope does not want a one world government. Show me his exact words that say he wants a one world government.

He does (often) speak out against not just toture but all evils committed by individuals and governments.

You are not one of these people who think there is a conspiracy round every corner are you?

The Pope has called for a New World Order. The objective of the New World Order as well as the United Nations is a One World Government. Let me just say that I am not a conspiracy theorist. I go by fact and evidence. I seek the truth only, but I don’t dismiss things because I don’t want to believe them or I find them far fetched. Now one can disagree what certain evidence means, but I don’t just pull this stuff out of thin air. If you follow my links you can see the exact quotes that I refer to.

edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/01/01/pope.ny.ap/

 

[steveandersen]

The Pope has called for a New World Order. The objective of the New World Order as well as the United Nations is a One World Government…

Nonsense.
The position of the Catholic Church has always been to encourage subsidiarity, i.e. the notion that governance should rest with the lowest competent authority.

Surely some things such as postal unions or maritime law are best handled globally but far many more things are best handled at lower governmental layers.

 

[porthos11]

We should have one world government, otherwise we’ll never be admitted to the United Federation of Planets.

Nope, the Popes called for a new international order or new world order, not “New World Order”. Such differences caps can make.

Specifically, this new world order (not New World Order) calls for solidarity among nations.

As for the United Nations, however, I couldn’t care less for such an incompetent, toothless organization.

 

[ISeekOnlyTruth]

We should have one world government, otherwise we’ll never be admitted to the United Federation of Planets.

Nope, the Popes called for a new international order or new world order, not “New World Order”. Such differences caps can make.

Specifically, this new world order (not New World Order) calls for solidarity among nations.

As for the United Nations, however, I couldn’t care less for such an incompetent, toothless organization.

I don’t think a few caps make that much of a difference. The Pope Said "Countries that act unilaterally on the world stage undermine the authority of the United Nations ". The pope is saying the UN is our Global Authority. Now why would he say this about such a corrupt organization? An organization which in its own words seeks global government.

The Pope also says:

*A united humanity will be able to confront the many troubling problems of the present time: from the menace of terrorism to the humiliating poverty in which millions of human beings live, from the proliferation of weapons to the pandemics and the environmental destruction which threatens the future of our planet," he said.

Do not fear; put your trust in him! The life-giving power of his light is an incentive for building a new world order based on just ethical and economic relationships," he said, speaking in Italian.*

au.news.yahoo.com/051225/2/p/xcry.html

Go ahead and simply dismiss it, but he still said it. It is still a reality. The Pope is telling us to submit to a global authority from a corrupt organization. There are other quotes as well and not just the Pope. I still haven’t heard a reasonable answer to this.

Also address the WOMP project direct by the CFR and what was stated in there about the Pope being a target. I guess somethings are easier to dismiss then to actually consider being true. We sometimes choose to believe what we want to believe because it is easier. The fact remains… The Pope is telling us to submit to global authority. This isn’t the first time that clergy has been used to control the populace. Hitler did it! And today It is even happening today in this country.

Watch this news clip to see for yourself.

youtube.com/watch?v=2Ga3zrrOhlo&feature=related

Anyways it isn’t out of the question that the Pope would be used to push certain agendas. All I ask from any of you is to research this a little bit with an open mind. Be objective and don’t let your fears dismiss evidence so easily.

 

[thistle]

I don’t think a few caps make that much of a difference. The Pope Said "Countries that act unilaterally on the world stage undermine the authority of the United Nations ". The pope is saying the UN is our Global Authority. Now why would he say this about such a corrupt organization? An organization which in its own words seeks global government.

The Pope also says:

*A united humanity will be able to confront the many troubling problems of the present time: from the menace of terrorism to the humiliating poverty in which millions of human beings live, from the proliferation of weapons to the pandemics and the environmental destruction which threatens the future of our planet," he said.

Do not fear; put your trust in him! The life-giving power of his light is an incentive for building a new world order based on just ethical and economic relationships," he said, speaking in Italian.*

au.news.yahoo.com/051225/2/p/xcry.html

Go ahead and simply dismiss it, but he still said it. It is still a reality. The Pope is telling us to submit to a global authority from a corrupt organization. There are other quotes as well and not just the Pope. I still haven’t heard a reasonable answer to this.

Also address the WOMP project direct by the CFR and what was stated in there about the Pope being a target. I guess somethings are easier to dismiss then to actually consider being true. We sometimes choose to believe what we want to believe because it is easier. The fact remains… The Pope is telling us to submit to global authority. This isn’t the first time that clergy has been used to control the populace. Hitler did it! And today It is even happening today in this country.

Watch this news clip to see for yourself.

youtube.com/watch?v=2Ga3zrrOhlo&feature=related

Anyways it isn’t out of the question that the Pope would be used to push certain agendas. All I ask from any of you is to research this a little bit with an open mind. Be objective and don’t let your fears dismiss evidence so easily.

The idea that the Pope is advocating a world government, far less a corrupt one is absolutely ludicrous. You are either living in fantasy land or you are smoking something that’s clouding your head.
Having read your posts I am trying hard not to laugh.
“Evidence”??? You have got to be kidding.

 

[DL82]

1. Why hasn’t Pope Benedict spoken up against torture?

Pope: the prohibition against torture ‘cannot be contravened under any circumstances’
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2007/september/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20070906_pastorale-carceraria_en.html

The Pope has spoken up against torture, many times. That is precisely why he supports the United Nations, because it stands up for the rights of the human person as more important than any nation state. That is a Catholic value, and nothing to do with any conspiracy theory. He doesn’t believe in abolishing the nation state, but the Church has always believed that the law of God, particularly Natural Law, is binding on all people, even kings and governments. State governments are good, because they provide order, law and stability, but some things are more important than allegiance to nation states.

 

[Contarini]

1. Both John Paul II and Pope Benedict have on numerous occasions called for a “New World Order” and both seemingly support a one world government.

I think you’re leaping from one thing to another here. The quotes you indicate speak of consensus and cooperation, which is not the same thing as a world government. The Catholic Church endorses the “principle of subsidiarity,” which says that you should never do something at a higher level of centralization that can be done at a lower level (this is important as a way to guard against totalitarianism). So I would be very surprised if the Catholic Church were ever to endorse a centralized world government. Cooperation, mutual respect, and consensus-building are very different from world government.

1. Why hasn’t Pope Benedict spoken up against torture? I really thought that this would be one of the Popes main messages to the American people during his visit.

The Pope’s task is very difficult–he has to balance principle with diplomacy. For instance, I really wish he had met with Iran’s president Ahmadinejad, but I can understand the diplomatic reasons why he chose not to. It’s easy to criticize the Pope for not saying certain things at certain times to certain people, but I think to be fair you have to look at his proclamation of Church teaching on the whole and judge him on that. I don’t think the Catholic Church’s position on torture is unambiguous. But to condemn openly a country that does on the whole attempt to preserve human rights for engaging in a practice that is borderline torture–well, I wish he had done this too, to be honest, but I can understand why he didn’t.

(Note that when I say that waterboarding is “borderline torture,” I do not mean that it is not torture–I think it is definitely on the wrong side of the border, but it is fairly close to the border compared to some other practices.)

Edwin

 

[erbo]

ISeekOnlyTruth,

This is an issue I continue to wrestle with very frequently. Although I am not a “conspiracy theorist”, I think there are members of our government that tend to push towards a global government. (The North American Union is another step down that path). For a variety of reasons, I argue that a world government would be incredibly bad for humanity.

So how can I reconcile what the Pope said with both my love of the Catholic Faith and my hate of a World Government?

1. I am exploring a fundamental assumption: Is Catholic faith/morals/worldview compatible with the principles that the USA was founded on? If it is not, then maybe our current form of government is somehow insufficient. If so, then maybe we need to re-think of how a government should run from a Catholic perspective. I started a thread on this months ago, you can read it to get some insight:
   forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=230124
2. As much as I love the Pope, I realize that he is only infallible in areas of Faith and Morals, not politics or political ideologies.
3. I try to keep in mind that the Church’s main job is to save souls and lead them to Christ. The type of government the world is under is really irrelevant to the Church, as long as it can continue this task. As C.S. Lewis said, any human-created government/institution is ultimately destined to failure (paraphrasing).

I hope to be able to explore this issue farther, and I hope people will keep an open mind on this forum. The debate isn’t whether or not a World Government is a conspiracy. The debate is about whether a (hypothetical) World Government would be a good thing from a Catholic moral perspective, and from a modern “pro-civil liberties” patriotic perspective.

God bless!
-Eric

 

[TheDoctor]

Eric - as other posters have pointed out, you are taking things out of context and reading into the Pope’s message meanings that just are not there.

If it helps, remember that the Church started within a “one world government” (Rome was pretty much the entire world in that region of the planet) and not only survived, but flourished. Over the years, the Faith has weathered dictatorships, monarchies, republics, communists, Nazi’s, fascists, etc. and will continue to be the light of mankind no matter how we chose to govern ourselves.

The real and only true “One World Government” will happen at the end of time when Jesus returns to set up His kingdom on Earth.

P.S. - Hey Porthos11, I thought we started the UFP? Can’t have the Federation without the Terrans, baby. Perhaps we can then have a New Universe Order, but that’s another thread…

 

[erbo]

TheDoctor,

It is interesting you point that out, and that is the dangerous Kool-aid that conspiracy theorists drink. Once one defines the term “New World Order” as a totalitarian world government, then anything said related to a “new world order” is automatically equated with the latter. As you have warned, it is important to take the Pope’s words in context. i will go back and read the links to see what he meant by a “new world order”.

Many public figureheads used the term “new world order”, but it is difficult to understand what the really mean by it.

As for the history of “world government”, you are very right to say that Christianity was born into a world government in the form of the Roman Empire. An interesting point is that there was also another medieval “world government” of sorts, when Papal authority became world political authority. The Christianization of Europe in the middle ages established a Catholic “world government”, with the pope as the universal head of it.

As you mentioned, I do look hopefully with faith on the only one who is worthy to rule the world, but in the meantime I want to pursue what is right and moral.

 

[rpp]

This thread:

The idea that the Pope is advocating a world government, far less a corrupt one is absolutely ludicrous. You are either living in fantasy land or you are smoking something that’s clouding your head.
Having read your posts I am trying hard not to laugh.
“Evidence”??? You have got to be kidding.

I was thinking something similar. You beat me to it.

 

[utunumsint]

I’m going to ask a loaded question: What’s necessarily wrong with a one world government? Shure it seems to satisfy the requirements for the coming of the anti-christ, but just because it satisfies the requirements, does not mean it is the end of the world.

God bless,
Ut

 

[ISeekOnlyTruth]

The idea that the Pope is advocating a world government, far less a corrupt one is absolutely ludicrous. You are either living in fantasy land or you are smoking something that’s clouding your head.
Having read your posts I am trying hard not to laugh.
“Evidence”??? You have got to be kidding.

“One’s first step in wisdom is to question everything –
and one’s last is to come to terms with everything.” – Georg Christoph Lichtenberg (1742-1799)

First thank you for your replies everyone and in joining me in this touchy subject. I appreciate intelligent conversation even if opinions are different. I really am just interested in the truth.

However to the member Thistle, I am not a druggy and my head is not clouded. I am thirsty for truth and I don’t appreciate you unchristian insults. If this post disturbs you that much that you feel the need to insult me, then perhaps you should stick to threads that deal with topics you are comfortable with.

I do however find it interesting that the majority of the people in my poll are concerned about World Government. I find that comforting to know that I am not the only one with these concerns.

 

[Contarini]

I’m going to ask a loaded question: What’s necessarily wrong with a one world government? Shure it seems to satisfy the requirements for the coming of the anti-christ, but just because it satisfies the requirements, does not mean it is the end of the world.

God bless,
Ut

The potential for tyranny is too great. It seems to me that a centralized one-world government would violate the principle of subsidiarity. Structures of cooperation such as those provided by the United Nations are a different matter. Perhaps a very loose federal system would be acceptable.

Edwin

 

[ISeekOnlyTruth]

ISeekOnlyTruth,

This is an issue I continue to wrestle with very frequently. Although I am not a “conspiracy theorist”, I think there are members of our government that tend to push towards a global government. (The North American Union is another step down that path). For a variety of reasons, I argue that a world government would be incredibly bad for humanity.

So how can I reconcile what the Pope said with both my love of the Catholic Faith and my hate of a World Government?

1. I am exploring a fundamental assumption: Is Catholic faith/morals/worldview compatible with the principles that the USA was founded on? If it is not, then maybe our current form of government is somehow insufficient. If so, then maybe we need to re-think of how a government should run from a Catholic perspective. I started a thread on this months ago, you can read it to get some insight:
   forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=230124
2. As much as I love the Pope, I realize that he is only infallible in areas of Faith and Morals, not politics or political ideologies.
3. I try to keep in mind that the Church’s main job is to save souls and lead them to Christ. The type of government the world is under is really irrelevant to the Church, as long as it can continue this task. As C.S. Lewis said, any human-created government/institution is ultimately destined to failure (paraphrasing).

I hope to be able to explore this issue farther, and I hope people will keep an open mind on this forum. The debate isn’t whether or not a World Government is a conspiracy. The debate is about whether a (hypothetical) World Government would be a good thing from a Catholic moral perspective, and from a modern “pro-civil liberties” patriotic perspective.

God bless!
-Eric

Erbo,

I am glad you have the same concerns as me. Like you, I don’t consider myself a conspiracy theorist and find it offensive when people label me that. Why is it that anytime one questions government or authority they are labeled as Conspiracy Theorist? I deal with facts and evidence only. The Pope has made statements that bother me. To delve into the meaning of it isn’t unreasonable. Instead people should ask themselves why they are so unable to deal with certain subjects and why they get so defensive with these topics. It is because in my opinion they are scared and in denial, and by labeling other people as crazy, they don’t have to deal with the issue.

I am well aware of the push towards the North American Union here in this country. Some people find it unbelievable, but they shouldn’t when it is happening in Europe with the European Union. I have done a lot of research on this stuff and it is very real, the push towards Global Government. I can point anyone who needs to all kind of sources for this stuff.

Yes the Church’s job is to save souls and I believe in the Catholic Religion, however I know that the people running the church are not perfect and open to corruption. All we have to do is look through history and see how many times corruption has happened in government and even the church. It has happened before and can happen again.

I would like to look into these issues further with you. I have many concerns and would like to do more research and discussion on these vital issues. I will read your thread and get back to you on it.

 

[utunumsint]

“One’s first step in wisdom is to question everything –
and one’s last is to come to terms with everything.” – Georg Christoph Lichtenberg (1742-1799)

First thank you for your replies everyone and in joining me in this touchy subject. I appreciate intelligent conversation even if opinions are different. I really am just interested in the truth.

However to the member Thistle, I am not a druggy and my head is not clouded. I am thirsty for truth and I don’t appreciate you unchristian insults. If this post disturbs you that much that you feel the need to insult me, then perhaps you should stick to threads that deal with topics you are comfortable with.

I do however find it interesting that the majority of the people in my poll are concerned about World Government. I find that comforting to know that I am not the only one with these concerns.

The pope has often expressed concern and condemned quasi messianic movements with apocaliptic underpinnings. This would include Nazi Socialists, Communists, and his current concern is technological totalitarianism, especially when dealing with biological genetic manipulation. If he speaks of a one world government, I’m sure he has to be understood in the proper context (e.g. catholic teaching).

God bless,
Ut

 

[erbo]

Rpp,

Although the Pope may not be actually advocating a “world government”, patriotic Americans should be very concerned about the eroding of our national sovereignty. Some people tend to be very watchful of public figures, with great concern for their possible global agenda. It is important to understand the concerns of our brothers and sisters. As we analyze and understand what the Pope is actually saying in these instances, we can reassure and comfort the doubtful and skeptical.

Also, I want to address utunumsint’s question. Although a “world government” isn’t inherently bad, it has a much greater potential to be more damaging than a national government. The founding fathers of the USA understood this on a much smaller scale, which is why the Constitution is designed to limit the authority of a federal government. The loss of individual civil liberties, economic oppression, eugenic practices, and loss of privacy are major concerns that would be put forward against a world government.

God bless, and hope this brings this thread “back down do earth!”

 

[ISeekOnlyTruth]

I’m going to ask a loaded question: What’s necessarily wrong with a one world government? Shure it seems to satisfy the requirements for the coming of the anti-christ, but just because it satisfies the requirements, does not mean it is the end of the world.

God bless,
Ut

Very good question and I appreciate it. The problem with World Government is that those who are working to put it in place are doing it to take away our freedoms, not to protect them. I can direct you to their own quotes where they describe this government.

The UN is already working on a forced one world religion, which is another reason I find it disturbing that the Pope supports this organization. Read the following article. Some quotes from the article are below.

prisonplanet.com/ushering_in_the_one_world_religion.htm

*Earlier this fall in Geneva, hundreds of spiritual and religious leaders met at the United Nations for a peace summit. And although all the major faiths were there, including some who claim to represent Christianity, it was clear that Jesus was not invited.

The Geneva summit was a direct outcome of the Millennium World Peace Summit of religious and spiritual leaders held at the United Nations in New York two years ago. At that gathering, honorary chair and CNN founder Ted Turner endeared himself to the crowd by promoting the New Age concept that there are many ways to heaven.

Robert Maginnis, a former director of the Family Research Council, said of the summit, “Well, I can see the possibility that it’s the globalization of world religion.”

Maginnis says it appears the hidden agenda is to unite people under one religious umbrella so they will peacefully accept the UN’s radical political goals. “I would submit that the United Nations is very anti-life, they are anti-faith, anti-family, they’re anti-national sovereignty, but they are pro one-world government,” he said.*