Why does our society show no respect for women, from either side?

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DarkLight

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It seems you get it from both sides of the aisle.

On the secular side , a lot of men just have no respect for women. There’s a lot of who will just approach strange women in ways that are not appropriate for an unmarried couple. There’s a lot of guys out there who feel entitled, who act like if they’re “nice” to a woman she owes him, or that if a woman is friendly to him then she’s a “tease” or is “using” him. There’s a lot of guys who feel it’s their right to insult/put down a woman who doesn’t accept him, or even to assault a woman because she’s not giving in to his desires.

On the Christian side, there’s the constant refrains about modesty and how if women would just dress with modesty they wouldn’t be subject to harassment. Or if a guy assaults a woman, how you shouldn’t have been alone with men, you shouldn’t go out drinking or dancing, so on and so forth. I don’t dare bring up such things around most Christians because I know the first questions will be about my behavior and what I might have done to incite things. That seems to be the default assumption in a lot of circles - that if men are sexually inappropriate it is because the woman has done something to incite that behavior.

It’s just depressing.
 
I think when you get down to it these two types of men, the lewd ones with an entitlement complex and the religious ones who judge a woman on what she wears, are exactly the same.
 
My mother, who is now 91 y.o., used to say that men used to respect women very much. I think with the 1960s a lot of that respect was taken away. Women wanted equality, but much of the time that got confused with sameness. Women came to feel that they needed to be as much like men as possible, swearing, dressing like men, etc.

I remember when I was in college, I was in an all-female group. They all went out to see a male stripper to show our equality to men. If men were going to do that, then so were we was the mentality.

Due to many of our actions of not respecting ourselves, allowing ourselves to be used by men, dressing immodestly, etc., we lost men’s respect.

It used to be most women saved themselves for marriage. Later, modesty was thrown out the window, and women would go to bed with almost total strangers. That was in the advent of contraception where it was felt there was no longer a consequence for sexual promiscuity, that one could sleep around and nothing would happen.

Men used to open a door for a lady. Now, I’ve heard of men trying to act like gentlemen getting reamed out by women for just that. A man who holds a door open now may be accused of thinking a woman can’t open a door for herself. I’ve heard this comment from more than one man. So, I think men come to think, “Well, open your own door, then.”

Men didn’t open a door for a lady because she couldn’t. He opened it out of basic respect and politeness. I’ve had it where once a man held a door open for me, and another man pushed me out of the way to get through first. That’s how low we have sunk.

Now, often men won’t give up a seat to a lady. I have a disability, and even seeing that, still a man wouldn’t give up his seat. Basic common courtesy has been lost, and both men and women have become more selfish.

I think that women gained a lot in the sexual revolution but also lost a lot. One of the things that was lost in at least some cases, was respect.
 
Well, luckily, there **are **other types of men out there, not just the two types you have described. You just have to figure that they are probably as annoying in other areas of their lives too.

Sometimes, it really has nothing to do with what you are doing, or how you are dressed, there are just jerks out there. Both men and women have been known to say things to my daughter while she is at work. (Retail.) Some of the things she tells me are shocking. Why they feel the need or the right to comment on her makeup, her clothing or her ethnicity is beyond me. Luckily, she is witty and good with a comeback that won’t get her fired. :rolleyes:

**But ** for every rude, thoughtless person, she has also told me about wonderfully nice people that she has had really interesting conversations with.

My point is, that’s life. You have to let it go or you will make yourself crazy. Speak up, and then, walk away.
 
ClearWater said:
My mother, who is now 91 y.o., used to say that men used to respect women very much. I think with the 1960s a lot of that respect was taken away. Women wanted equality, but much of the time that got confused with sameness. Women came to feel that they needed to be as much like men as possible, swearing, dressing like men, etc.

I remember when I was in college, I was in an all-female group. They all went out to see a male stripper to show our equality to men. If men were going to do that, then so were we was the mentality.

Due to many of our actions of not respecting ourselves, allowing ourselves to be used by men, dressing immodestly, etc., we lost men’s respect.

It used to be most women saved themselves for marriage. Later, modesty was thrown out the window, and women would go to bed with almost total strangers. That was in the advent of contraception where it was felt there was no longer a consequence for sexual promiscuity, that one could sleep around and nothing would happen.

Men used to open a door for a lady. Now, I’ve heard of men trying to act like gentlemen getting reamed out by women for just that. A man who holds a door open now may be accused of thinking a woman can’t open a door for herself. I’ve heard this comment from more than one man. So, I think men come to think, “Well, open your own door, then.”

Men didn’t open a door for a lady because she couldn’t. He opened it out of basic respect and politeness. I’ve had it where once a man held a door open for me, and another man pushed me out of the way to get through first. That’s how low we have sunk.

Now, often men won’t give up a seat to a lady. I have a disability, and even seeing that, still a man wouldn’t give up his seat. Basic common courtesy has been lost, and both men and women have become more selfish.

I think that women gained a lot in the sexual revolution but also lost a lot. One of the things that was lost in at least some cases, was respect.
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I don’t know. I feel like a lot of the attitudes have always been in place. Maybe the harassment wasn’t as bad, but the attitude that a young lady shouldn’t drink in public, or shouldn’t be alone with a guy, and that if she did those things and a man took advantage of her it was her fault, were definitely there. I remember reading old etiquette books and talking about how if a woman spent the night alone with a man, even though it were an accident out of necessity (such as in a boat that was becalmed in a fog), she was considered ruined.

And a lot of that only applied to women who were of a certain social standing. If you read some of the histories of what women of the servant class went through, especially young black women, it’s quite shocking – they weren’t “respectable” women so men didn’t feel bound to treat them with respect.
 
ConfusedLucy said:
I think when you get down to it these two types of men, the lewd ones with an entitlement complex and the religious ones who judge a woman on what she wears, are exactly the same.
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Right.

Not All Men Are Like That, but of course a very high percentage of the guys who accost women in public are exactly like that, which would be affecting DarkLight’s perception of the prevalence of the behavior.
 
ClearWater said:
My mother, who is now 91 y.o., used to say that men used to respect women very much. I think with the 1960s a lot of that respect was taken away. Women wanted equality, but much of the time that got confused with sameness. Women came to feel that they needed to be as much like men as possible, swearing, dressing like men, etc.

I remember when I was in college, I was in an all-female group. They all went out to see a male stripper to show our equality to men. If men were going to do that, then so were we was the mentality.

Due to many of our actions of not respecting ourselves, allowing ourselves to be used by men, dressing immodestly, etc., we lost men’s respect.

It used to be most women saved themselves for marriage. Later, modesty was thrown out the window, and women would go to bed with almost total strangers. That was in the advent of contraception where it was felt there was no longer a consequence for sexual promiscuity, that one could sleep around and nothing would happen.

Men used to open a door for a lady. Now, I’ve heard of men trying to act like gentlemen getting reamed out by women for just that. A man who holds a door open now may be accused of thinking a woman can’t open a door for herself. I’ve heard this comment from more than one man. So, I think men come to think, “Well, open your own door, then.”

Men didn’t open a door for a lady because she couldn’t. He opened it out of basic respect and politeness. I’ve had it where once a man held a door open for me, and another man pushed me out of the way to get through first. That’s how low we have sunk.

Now, often men won’t give up a seat to a lady. I have a disability, and even seeing that, still a man wouldn’t give up his seat. Basic common courtesy has been lost, and both men and women have become more selfish.

I think that women gained a lot in the sexual revolution but also lost a lot. One of the things that was lost in at least some cases, was respect.
Click to expand...
No disrespect to your Mom, but a lot of older folks have a tendency to view their youth through rose-colored glasses. Common courtesy still exists if you open your eyes: that really hasn’t changed in any fundamental way. Also, premarital sex and immodesty weren’t exactly rare amongst the greatest generation - they just didn’t talk about it as much.

Even if everything you said was true, I’d still be willing to open my own doors and stand in the train if it means that I have access to the same educational and employment opportunities as a man. I can still wear flower-print dresses and be a SAHM if I want, but the difference in doing so today vs. the 50’s is that today it’s a free choice rather than a result of societal pressures and expectations.
 
DarkLight said:
It seems you get it from both sides of the aisle.

On the secular side , a lot of men just have no respect for women. There’s a lot of who will just approach strange women in ways that are not appropriate for an unmarried couple. There’s a lot of guys out there who feel entitled, who act like if they’re “nice” to a woman she owes him, or that if a woman is friendly to him then she’s a “tease” or is “using” him. There’s a lot of guys who feel it’s their right to insult/put down a woman who doesn’t accept him, or even to assault a woman because she’s not giving in to his desires.

On the Christian side, there’s the constant refrains about modesty and how if women would just dress with modesty they wouldn’t be subject to harassment. Or if a guy assaults a woman, how you shouldn’t have been alone with men, you shouldn’t go out drinking or dancing, so on and so forth. I don’t dare bring up such things around most Christians because I know the first questions will be about my behavior and what I might have done to incite things. That seems to be the default assumption in a lot of circles - that if men are sexually inappropriate it is because the woman has done something to incite that behavior.

It’s just depressing.
Click to expand...
In both cases, women are seen as sexual objects. The secular man wants free and total access, while the religious man won’t accept one that’s been taken out of the metaphorical wrapper.
 
ClearWater said:
Men used to open a door for a lady. Now, I’ve heard of men trying to act like gentlemen getting reamed out by women for just that. A man who holds a door open now may be accused of thinking a woman can’t open a door for herself. I’ve heard this comment from more than one man. So, I think men come to think, “Well, open your own door, then.”
Click to expand...
This is very regionally dependent.

I once lived in Washington DC when we had small children, and one of the banes of my life was people (of both sexes) letting the door at Starbucks swing in my face when I was trying to get through with a double stroller and hence was in a very poor position to manage the door.

(I was also pregnant when using public transportation there–and I get vastly pregnant–and I had exactly 4 people ever give me a seat, 3 of them being women, and the 4th being a Russian guy whose wife told him to, so a pretty terrible showing. There was one guy who was really lucky I didn’t just sit down in his lap, because I was totally thinking of doing it–I was the size and shape of a hippopotamus at that point.)

Once we moved to a medium-sized city in a Southern state, the doors were no longer a problem. People (of both sexes) don’t just open doors for themselves and close them after themselves without looking, they automatically check before shutting doors.

In our area of the South, this is not at all a gendered thing. People of both sexes hold doors for each other.
 
DarkLight said:
It seems you get it from both sides of the aisle.

On the secular side , a lot of men just have no respect for women. There’s a lot of who will just approach strange women in ways that are not appropriate for an unmarried couple. There’s a lot of guys out there who feel entitled, who act like if they’re “nice” to a woman she owes him, or that if a woman is friendly to him then she’s a “tease” or is “using” him. There’s a lot of guys who feel it’s their right to insult/put down a woman who doesn’t accept him, or even to assault a woman because she’s not giving in to his desires.

On the Christian side, there’s the constant refrains about modesty and how if women would just dress with modesty they wouldn’t be subject to harassment. Or if a guy assaults a woman, how you shouldn’t have been alone with men, you shouldn’t go out drinking or dancing, so on and so forth. I don’t dare bring up such things around most Christians because I know the first questions will be about my behavior and what I might have done to incite things. That seems to be the default assumption in a lot of circles - that if men are sexually inappropriate it is because the woman has done something to incite that behavior.

It’s just depressing.
Click to expand...
False equivalency. I’ve never heard a ***Christian ***say that sexual assault is because women ask for it by the way they dress.
 
Xantippe said:
In our area of the South, this is not at all a gendered thing. People of both sexes hold doors for each other.
Click to expand...
Personally, I don’t think it should be a gendered thing. Respect should go both ways.
 
Respect for all has decreased, including for oneself. That is why communities are lacking, to be replaced by small tribes of a great variety. I have never lost my respect for women. I think the OP paints with a giant, broad brush, and is encouraged by people who think “They’re all like that.”

I’m not.

Ed
 
edwest2 said:
Respect for all has decreased, including for oneself. That is why communities are lacking, to be replaced by small tribes of a great variety. I have never lost my respect for women. I think the OP paints with a giant, broad brush, and is encouraged by people who think “They’re all like that.”

I’m not.

Ed
Click to expand...
I never said all men were like that. I did point out that it’s quite common behavior in my experience - common enough to make me very cautious both around strange men, and very cautious talking about my experiences around other Christians. I’ve just been burnt too many times.
 
DarkLight said:
I never said all men were like that. I did point out that it’s quite common behavior in my experience - common enough to make me very cautious both around strange men, and very cautious talking about my experiences around other Christians. I’ve just been burnt too many times.
Click to expand...
Then you need to associate with a better group of friends.
🤷
 
DarkLight said:
I never said all men were like that. I did point out that it’s quite common behavior in my experience - common enough to make me very cautious both around strange men, and very cautious talking about my experiences around other Christians. I’ve just been burnt too many times.
Click to expand...
You didn’t but other people took the ball and ran with it. Trust is something earned and I write that for all who are reading this. That’s how good relationships start. If I determine the other person has problems with certain things I believe in, I will still be friendly to him, but friends? No.

I’ve seen too much bad behavior to know to just avoid it or not participate. I know other people who are not like me and we get along, but that’s it.

Ed
 
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