Why does Satan think he can win?

[JJ59]

Hi everyone.

I was reading “The Screwtape Letters” (excellent book), and I started thinking: Why does Satan think he can win against God?

I mean, it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that you’ll lose against the God of the Universe, who can do literally anything at the snap of his fingers. Satan must be aware that the Apocalypse says he will be thrown into the “Lake of Fire”. So why on earth does he keep trying?

Thanks and God Bless.

 

[lizaanne]

Pride.

He thinks he is better than God. Just as so many of us humans think we know better, and in our pride we do our own thing and to heck with God. We commit adultery, we contracept, we kill children in the womb because they are inconvenient. We lie, cheat, steal. All because we think we know better and our pride whispers in our ear and tells us we are right.

Satan is prideful. He thinks he knows better. He’s wrong - just like so many of us.

~Liza

 

[Della]

Well, I don’t think Satan thinks he can win, only that he can help damn as many people as possible. He hates us humans–probably because God loves us so. That seems to be what Lewis had in mind when he wrote the Screwtape Letters.

 

[promethius]

Hi everyone.

I was reading “The Screwtape Letters” (excellent book), and I started thinking: Why does Satan think he can win against God?

I mean, it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that you’ll lose against the God of the Universe, who can do literally anything at the snap of his fingers. Satan must be aware that the Apocalypse says he will be thrown into the “Lake of Fire”. So why on earth does he keep trying?

Thanks and God Bless.

Yep, it’s a summation of the first two posts. Two situations:

Pride goeth before the fall - We know that extravagent pride is a sin and can blind us to truth, and satan has fallen victim to his own wiles with this one.

Cutting off the nose to spite the face - Satan, as you said, must realize at some basic level that he is going to lose, but to capture as many souls and damn them forever (each one a painful loss for our Lord) is his unholy goal.

 

[ready]

Hi everyone.

Satan must be aware that the Apocalypse says he will be thrown into the “Lake of Fire”. So why on earth does he keep trying?
QUOTE]

So he can take down as many people with him to hell. This would be a loss on the side of heaven, as I understand it, as those souls lost to the devil were made to live in heaven with their Heavenly Father.

 

[prodigalson12]

All good answers here, this is also why we as believers should not forsake our fellow man, regardless of outward appearance, regardless of how they live their lives. We have the capacity to take an offensive position and pull these people from their path of destruction by showing compassion to them and through the grace of God, help to turn them away from the gates of hell itself. It’s a battle we are in, and knowing who will be the ultimate victor, we can be part of God’s army in the here and now by doing so.

 

[ready]

All good answers here, this is also why we as believers should not forsake our fellow man, regardless of outward appearance, regardless of how they live their lives. We have the capacity to take an offensive position and pull these people from their path of destruction by showing compassion to them and through the grace of God, help to turn them away from the gates of hell itself. It’s a battle we are in, and knowing who will be the ultimate victor, we can be part of God’s army in the here and now by doing so.

Beautifully said.

 

[COPLAND_3]

Like mentioned above, Satan and the demons are trying to bring down as many people with them as possible. They know that they have lost the war at the Cross, but just like any war that has been won, there are those pockets of resistance where it is still dangerous. The Devil and the demons are so full of hate and malice that they will never stop trying to destroy others even though they have nothing to gain from it. You see some people with the same spirit who love to see others fail, who love to cause trouble and ruin peoples reputations, and they thrive on other peoples misery. I know people like that, and that is like the Devil and the demons except not as powerful.

 

[distracted]

Pride.

He thinks he is better than God.

am i allowed to disagree?? i don’t think he thinks that. He was in Heaven and knew God… so he knows he is not better than God… who created him… I think he just thinks that it is stupid to worship/obey Jesus, who, although God, is also man… and it seems that that was why he was kicked out of Heaven… (?) because he wouldn’t agree to worship Christ…

as so many of us humans think we know better, and in our pride we do our own thing and to heck with God. We commit adultery, we contracept, we kill children in the womb because they are inconvenient. We lie, cheat, steal. All because we think we know better and our pride whispers in our ear and tells us we are right.

well said… 'cause so true… Even we so-called Catholics, catechized and all… seem to think, sometimes, that we know better than God…how to do this/ how to do that… I guess that’s why Jesus said the way to Heaven is narrow and there are few who find it… and some of us find it and then… lose it again… , have to pray to st. Anthony and all…

 

[Dirk_Skene]

You bring up a good question. Best answer I can come up with is that misery likes company.

 

[distracted]

the short answer to the question is that

he CAN… 'cause we let him… Maybe satan just caused us to sin ONCE… in the Garden of Eden… and the rest was our own doing…

 

[JJ59]

Well, I don’t think Satan thinks he can win, only that he can help damn as many people as possible. He hates us humans–probably because God loves us so. That seems to be what Lewis had in mind when he wrote the Screwtape Letters.

I see. Something like a suicide bomber, I suppose.

Ugh, what a nasty subject. Thanks everyone for your responses!

 

[Biggie]

Satan, the Accuser, believes that in the creation of the human being God has revealed Himself to be imperfect. If God is imperfect, then he is also not a prime (first) being and he is not impervious therefore his position at the apex can be challenged. From his point of view, God is trapped in a lie about Himself: that He is self sufficient, all good, all merciful, all just.

God’s claim that He created man out of love is false, Satan charges. God created man for His own purposes. It is impossible God could love man since man is unworthy of God’s love; it is impossible that man could love God, since love presupposes a free choice for another. Therefore Satan accuses God of deceit to man (see the Garden) and accuses man of imperfection to God, his creator (see Job) in order to establish and make clear the relationship between God and man is not loving but utilitarian. As man sins and God spares him, Satan makes this case before the all just court of God’s person (again, see Job).

His hope is to collapse God’s deceit about Himself through the utter failure of mankind and his prediction is that in that collapse a new order is possible.

 

[Della]

Satan, the Accuser, believes that in the creation of the human being God has revealed Himself to be imperfect. If God is imperfect, then he is also not a prime (first) being and he is not impervious therefore his position at the apex can be challenged. From his point of view, God is trapped in a lie about Himself: that He is self sufficient, all good, all merciful, all just.

God’s claim that He created man out of love is false, Satan charges. God created man for His own purposes. It is impossible God could love man since man is unworthy of God’s love; it is impossible that man could love God, since love presupposes a free choice for another. Therefore Satan accuses God of deceit to man (see the Garden) and accuses man of imperfection to God, his creator (see Job) in order to establish and make clear the relationship between God and man is not loving but utilitarian. As man sins and God spares him, Satan makes this case before the all just court of God’s person (again, see Job).

His hope is to collapse God’s deceit about Himself through the utter failure of mankind and his prediction is that in that collapse a new order is possible.

I’ve never heard this interpretation before–it’s quite interesting. Is it from your own studies or some other source? I’d love to look into it further, either way.

Reading over your post it struck me that, if your case is sound, it is the height of hubris on Satan’s part to think he knows the mind of God better than God knows it himself and/or that he thinks himself capable of judging God’s actions. It makes sense, though in light of Satan’s continued efforts to tear man away from God.

 

[PJM]

=JJ59;5017680]Hi everyone.

I was reading “The Screwtape Letters” (excellent book), and I started thinking: Why does Satan think he can win against God?

I mean, it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that you’ll lose against the God of the Universe, who can do literally anything at the snap of his fingers. Satan must be aware that the Apocalypse says he will be thrown into the “Lake of Fire”. So why on earth does he keep trying?

Thanks and God Bless.

First your choice of reading materials is to be commended. I read them some years ago.

Actually I think Satan knows that he is supposed to lose and that is what motivates him.

He wants to get back at God, and what better way?

He sure is doing a heck of a job these day’s. Seems like ol’ Satan is winning the battle.

THANK GOD, we know he loses the war!

Love and prayers,

 

[Mark77]

Why does Satan think he can win against God?

One word; ARROGANCE!

Why do we deny God’s existence? ARROGANCE!

Why do we sin? ARROGANCE!

Why do we doubt, question and parse the Truth of Jesus Christ? ARROGANCE!

What’s the answer? Pray for HUMILITY!!!

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

Mark

 

[prodigalson12]

Beautifully said.

Thank you, and it’s befitting to show this in action in real time, God is so good!!!

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=324834&goto=newpost

 

[Biggie]

I’ve never heard this interpretation before–it’s quite interesting. Is it from your own studies or some other source? I’d love to look into it further, either way.

Reading over your post it struck me that, if your case is sound, it is the height of hubris on Satan’s part to think he knows the mind of God better than God knows it himself and/or that he thinks himself capable of judging God’s actions. It makes sense, though in light of Satan’s continued efforts to tear man away from God.

Alas, I am not a theologian, but I am an accomplished sinner. That is, in part, my source. I believe a fearless understanding of one’s own sin includes the subtext that God is a liar (1) as to his ability to fulfill man; (2) as to his motives in creation; (3) as to his self-sufficiency and power; (4) as to man’s need for Him. The OP might have just as surely asked the question if man cannot win, why would he dare oppose God. The answer is obvious - man’s sin is his testimony he does not believe God and does not think he needs Him. I could readily project that mentality onto Satan who, in the original sin, gave rise to it.

As you know, the Bible has precious little to say about Satan (which I think means Accuser). I think a careful and honest reading of Genesis followed by Job does shed some light.

In my opinion, the difficulty we have with God and the explanation for much of the condition we find ourselves in lies in - love. You can get to my point of view by asking yourself in reading Genesis what love requires and what it might mean to have a love relationship with the Infinite Prime Being. As we understand love, for example, it requires free will. How is one free in relation to an all powerful God? It requires giving of self. How does one give oneself to a self sufficient God? If one is wholly dependent upon God, how can he be an individual worthy of or capable of love?

I think we take the implications all too lightly. When bad things happen to us, we question how could God love us and allow it. Yet it is precisely because of love, out of love if you will, He must.

Please don’t misread me, I believe in God and all that the love of God implies. I can certainly see how, at the same time it can be seen twisted into something else - because we do it all the time.

 

[Della]

Alas, I am not a theologian, but I am an accomplished sinner. That is, in part, my source. I believe a fearless understanding of one’s own sin includes the subtext that God is a liar (1) as to his ability to fulfill man; (2) as to his motives in creation; (3) as to his self-sufficiency and power; (4) as to man’s need for Him. The OP might have just as surely asked the question if man cannot win, why would he dare oppose God. The answer is obvious - man’s sin is his testimony he does not believe God and does not think he needs Him. I could readily project that mentality onto Satan who, in the original sin, gave rise to it.

As you know, the Bible has precious little to say about Satan (which I think means Accuser). I think a careful and honest reading of Genesis followed by Job does shed some light.

In my opinion, the difficulty we have with God and the explanation for much of the condition we find ourselves in lies in - love. You can get to my point of view by asking yourself in reading Genesis what love requires and what it might mean to have a love relationship with the Infinite Prime Being. As we understand love, for example, it requires free will. How is one free in relation to an all powerful God? It requires giving of self. How does one give oneself to a self sufficient God? If one is wholly dependent upon God, how can he be an individual worthy of or capable of love?

I think we take the implications all too lightly. When bad things happen to us, we question how could God love us and allow it. Yet it is precisely because of love, out of love if you will, He must.

Please don’t misread me, I believe in God and all that the love of God implies. I can certainly see how, at the same time it can be seen twisted into something else - because we do it all the time.

I wondered because C. S. Lewis wrote another great book that deals with the themes you raised: “Till We Have Faces”. It’s an adaptation of the Pysche/Cupid myth that explores the concept of accusing “the gods” of being unreasonable and harsh. And it being a Lewis piece, he comes to his conclusions by way of retelling the myth, with a Lewisian twist, of course.

I also have worked on a short story about the fall of Lucifer that delves into the issues you cited. It’s just good to see others confirm my own meditations on it. As I read your original post I thought I hadn’t come across that way of seeing Satan’s motivations (and ours as well as you so rightly pointed out), but now I see your words were an echo that I at first didn’t connect with my own thoughts and the writing of Lewis. Anyway, your insights are very helpful to us all. Thank you for sharing them!

 

[Iamnotafraid]

Hi everyone.

I was reading “The Screwtape Letters” (excellent book), and I started thinking: Why does Satan think he can win against God?

I mean, it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that you’ll lose against the God of the Universe, who can do literally anything at the snap of his fingers. Satan must be aware that the Apocalypse says he will be thrown into the “Lake of Fire”. So why on earth does he keep trying?

Thanks and God Bless.

What you just said, sums it all up, that the entire ordeal is one big myth.

If Satan were real, he would have direct knowledge that his enemy, God, is omnipotent and omniscient. God being omnipotent and Satan not possessing that power, he would be well aware that there is zero possibility of his winning anything.

Every move Satan makes, God would already be aware of it and then God could use his omnipotence to defeat Satan at every turn.

That is what makes the entire idea of a rebellious angel and 1/3 of all the angels trying to overthrow a Deity, that would have already been aware of their attempt to seize power, before they had even thought about it! Ridiculous.