Why does St Paul never mention the Crucifixion?

[Kouyate42]

St Paul wrote in 70AD, which is only a short period of time after the Crucifixion, and it can only be assumed that the events surrounding the Crucifixion and Resurrection were common knowledge among the Christian population of the time, especially given the record of the miracles happening in Jerusalem.

So my question is this: why does St Paul, if the Crucifixion actually happened, not cite this event as proof of the truth of the Christian faith? Why is most of his letters talking about spiritual matters and not the historical truth of the death of Christ?

 

[Della]

Paul mentions the crucifixion quite often:

Rom.6[6] We know that our old self was crucified with him so that the sinful body might be destroyed, and we might no longer be enslaved to sin.

1Cor.1[13] Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
[23] but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles,

1Cor.2[2] For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.
[8] None of the rulers of this age understood this; for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

2Cor.13
[4] For he was crucified in weakness, but lives by the power of God. For we are weak in him, but in dealing with you we shall live with him by the power of God.

Gal.2[20] I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me; and the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Gal.3[1] O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?

Gal.5[24] And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Gal.6[14] But far be it from me to glory except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

Even so, Paul didn’t write his letters as accounts of the life of Christ. That wasn’t his purpose. He wrote to address problems in the early Church, to correct false theology and that sort of thing.

The Bible isn’t a text book of theology, it’s stories, letters, poetry, songs, history, etc. Not every book covers the same things and were written by various people living in various times and places. The Gospel writers who witnessed the crucifixion or who heard about it first hand from St. John and others who saw it wrote about it because their purpose was to tell their readers about who Jesus was and about his mission. Paul came along after that had already happened and wrote to congregations he had established, as he was directed by the Holy Spirit. His letters are more like those of a modern bishop addressing difficulties within his diocese. Most bishops don’t write about the crucifixion, either, because that’s not their purpose in writing–nor the popes for the same reasons.

 

[danserr]

St Paul wrote in 70AD, which is only a short period of time after the Crucifixion, and it can only be assumed that the events surrounding the Crucifixion and Resurrection were common knowledge among the Christian population of the time, especially given the record of the miracles happening in Jerusalem.

So my question is this: why does St Paul, if the Crucifixion actually happened, not cite this event as proof of the truth of the Christian faith? Why is most of his letters talking about spiritual matters and not the historical truth of the death of Christ?

As another note in addition to the previous poster, I would add that Paul did not write in 70 AD. He was dead by then, killed around 63/64 AD. All Paul’s stuff is earlier than that.

He letter to Corinthians was written around 54/55 AD and deals in detail on the Resurrection. Check his Chapter 15 especially.

He refers to Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection. He is so sure that the Resurrection happened that he lists all the witnesses, and even says “if Christ has not been raised, your faith is in vain.” Given how early this letter was and that Paul was in touch with the earliest Christians and apostles within 6 years of Jesus’ Resurrection. So I would say that Paul certainly does cite Jesus’ death and more importantly, Resurrection, as proof of the Christian faith.

 

[TeenageConvert]

Paul spoke of the crucifixion, death, and resurrection of Christ many times. I think at least once in most of his letters he talked about those who have been Baptized dying to themselves with Christ, and rising with him.

 

[perdido1144]

It just goes on and on . . . just to add a couple of my favorite passages:

1Cor 1:22-23 For Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,

1Cor 2:7-8 Rather, we speak God’s wisdom, mysterious, hidden, which God predetermined before the ages for our glory,and which none of the rulers of this age knew; for if they had known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

 

[PJM]

:

=Kouyate42;9422386]St Paul wrote in 70AD, which is only a short period of time after the Crucifixion, and it can only be assumed that the events surrounding the Crucifixion and Resurrection were common knowledge among the Christian population of the time, especially given the record of the miracles happening in Jerusalem.

So my question is this: why does St Paul, if the Crucifixion actually happened, not cite this event as proof of the truth of the Christian faith? Why is most of his letters talking about spiritual matters and not the historical truth of the death of Christ?

Ahhhh, BUT HE DOES!
Rom.6: 6 “***We know that our old self was crucified with him ***so that the sinful body might be destroyed, and we might no longer be enslaved to sin.”

1Cor.1: 13 “Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?*** 23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles,” ***

1Cor.2: 2 “For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.”
.
2Cor.13: 4 “For he was crucified in weakness, but lives by the power of God. For we are weak in him, but in dealing with you we shall live with him by the power of God”

Gal.6: 14 “But far be it from me to glory except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world”

However I suspect that is NOT what your asking?.

IF your asking why Christ Passion is not detailed; it’s because its PAST TENSE and was no secret.

What Paul does is EXPLAIN the MEANING of Christ passion; death AND Resurrection

HOPE that claridfies it for you?

God Bless you,
pat /PJM

 

[Ignatius]

St Paul wrote in 70AD, which is only a short period of time after the Crucifixion, and it can only be assumed that the events surrounding the Crucifixion and Resurrection were common knowledge among the Christian population of the time, especially given the record of the miracles happening in Jerusalem.

So my question is this: why does St Paul, if the Crucifixion actually happened, not cite this event as proof of the truth of the Christian faith? Why is most of his letters talking about spiritual matters and not the historical truth of the death of Christ?

Unfortunately, you have been the victim of tragic error and misinformation. Paul cites the crucifixion multiple times. He even says that he knows nothing but Christ, and Him Crucified.

 

[aschaefer]

Dear Kouyate,
Excellent question!
I believe we must look at Paul’s motivations and the role of his letters. Paul was a missionary. His policy (Romans 15:14-29) was to proclaim the Good News of Christ to non-Jews in areas. When he felt the church was established in an area, he moved on. His letters were primarily intended as extensions of his missionary activity. Paul provided advice, encouragement and correction in his absence. At times he would address specific problems in a community. He applied theological insight to the issues. These letters were intended to be read publicly.

Many of the problems that Paul encountered in his communities are the same problems we encounter today and his answers are the same answers we need today. His advice tells us how to behave in our world as we encounter the difficulties and mixed messages we receive from the media and relativism in society. Hope this makes sense.
Peace!

 

[patrick457]

St Paul wrote in 70AD, which is only a short period of time after the Crucifixion, and it can only be assumed that the events surrounding the Crucifixion and Resurrection were common knowledge among the Christian population of the time, especially given the record of the miracles happening in Jerusalem.

So my question is this: why does St Paul, if the Crucifixion actually happened, not cite this event as proof of the truth of the Christian faith? Why is most of his letters talking about spiritual matters and not the historical truth of the death of Christ?

As the other posters have mentioned, he does actually make repeated references to the death and resurrection of Christ throughout all his letters - it’s the core of his whole theology actually. There are fourteen epistles in the New Testament which are attributed to St. Paul; the authenticity of about half of these fourteen letters are accepted by most scholars today. Leaving aside that whole matter for now, even if we look at these undisputed seven letters only, the point still stands.

Now, let’s be honest: there isn’t as much biographic details about Jesus as we would like within the letters of St. Paul when compared to the gospels. The fact that there are only bits and pieces of ‘Jesus material’ within Paul’s letters often leads people to underestimate what material is actually present and overlook their presence (as [Mark Goodacre](‘Jesus material’) points out). The reason is the - admittedly unjustified - expectation among many readers that Paul’s letters would read like the gospels. It is true that Paul doesn’t give us a wealth of information, but it is easy to overstate the case: while Paul did not see the ‘earthly’ Jesus (he does claim to have seen Him - much later, “as to one untimely born”), he did know of and learned from actual eyewitnesses. It would help here to remember that the Christian kerygma was primarily transmitted orally and that these epistles themselves are occasional and contingent in nature.

This reason is related to the fact that people are more familiar with the gospels than they are with Paul’s letters: the gospels are after all, read more often than the epistles (seriously, just how many people are there who choose to focus solely on Paul’s letters? ), and are placed first in the standard New Testament canon. As a result, the gospels tend to color people’s perspectives and sets up the expectation about what to see in the Pauline epistles.

 

[patrick457]

I’ll quote extant ‘Jesus material’ (not limited to the Crucifixion) from these seven ‘undisputed’ letters in question. If we ran through all the epistles the list would be much longer.

For they themselves report concerning us the kind of reception we had among you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

(1 Thessalonians 1:9-10)

For you, brothers, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea. For you suffered the same things from your own countrymen as they did from the Jews, who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out, and displease God and oppose all mankind by hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles that they might be saved—so as always to fill up the measure of their sins. But wrath has come upon them at last!

(1 Thessalonians 2:14-16)

But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep.

(1 Thessalonians 4:13-14)

But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and for a helmet the hope of salvation. For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep we might live with him.

(1 Thessalonians 5:8-10)

Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

(Philippians 2:5-11)

What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that no one may say that you were baptized in my name. (I did baptize also the household of Stephanas. Beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized anyone else.) For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power. For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written,

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.”

Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

(1 Corinthians 1:12-25)

And I, when I came to you, brothers, did not come proclaiming to you the testimony of God with lofty speech or wisdom. For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. And I was with you in weakness and in fear and much trembling, and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, so that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God. Yet among the mature we do impart wisdom, although it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to pass away. But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. But, as it is written,

“What no eye has seen, nor ear heard,
nor the heart of man imagined,
what God has prepared for those who love him”—

these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.

(1 Corinthians 2:1-10)

 

[patrick457]

Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. Let us therefore celebrate the festival, not with the old leaven, the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

(1 Corinthians 5:7-8)

For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.

(1 Corinthians 11:23-26)

For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me. For I am the least of the apostles, unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me. Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

(1 Corinthians 15:3-11)

Paul, an apostle—not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead—and all the brothers who are with me,
To the churches of Galatia:
Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, who gave himself for our sins to deliver us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, to whom be the glory forever and ever. Amen.

(Galatians 1:1-5 ESV)

O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith—just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?

(Galatians 3:1-6)

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”—so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

(Galatians 3:13-14)

I mean that the heir, as long as he is a child, is no different from a slave, though he is the owner of everything, but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by his father. In the same way we also, when we were children, were enslaved to the elementary principles of the world. But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God.

(Galatians 4:1-7)

See with what large letters I am writing to you with my own hand. It is those who want to make a good showing in the flesh who would force you to be circumcised, and only in order that they may not be persecuted for the cross of Christ. For even those who are circumcised do not themselves keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh. But far be it from me to boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. And as for all who walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.

(Galatians 6:11-16)

But we have this treasure in jars of clay, to show that the surpassing power belongs to God and not to us. We are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not driven to despair; persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed; always carrying in the body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our bodies. For we who live are always being given over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh. So death is at work in us, but life in you. Since we have the same spirit of faith according to what has been written, “I believed, and so I spoke,” we also believe, and so we also speak, knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence. For it is all for your sake, so that as grace extends to more and more people it may increase thanksgiving, to the glory of God.

(2 Corinthians 4:7-15)

 

[patrick457]

We are not commending ourselves to you again but giving you cause to boast about us, so that you may be able to answer those who boast about outward appearance and not about what is in the heart. For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised. From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

(2 Corinthians 5:12-21)

Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations, including you who are called to belong to Jesus Christ,
To all those in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints:
Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

(Romans 1:1-7)

But the words “it was counted to him” were not written for his sake alone, but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.

(Romans 4:23-25)

Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us. For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die—but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation. Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.

(Romans 5:1-14)

What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. For one who has died has been set free from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.

(Romans 6:1-11)

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

(Romans 8:1-4)

 

[patrick457]

You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

(Romans 8:9-11)

What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.

(Romans 8:31-34)

I am speaking the truth in Christ—I am not lying; my conscience bears me witness in the Holy Spirit—that I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh. They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises. To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.

(Romans 9:1-5)

For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord’s. For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

(Romans 14:7-9)

For I tell you that Christ became a servant to the circumcised to show God’s truthfulness, in order to confirm the promises given to the patriarchs, and in order that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy. As it is written,
“Therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles,
and sing to your name.”

And again it is said,
“Rejoice, O Gentiles, with his people.”

And again,
“Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles,
and let all the peoples extol him.”

And again Isaiah says,
“The root of Jesse will come,
even he who arises to rule the Gentiles;
in him will the Gentiles hope.”

May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope.

(Romans 15:8-13)

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Since he was not a witness to the Crucifixion, I presume that he felt he had nothing to add to accounts of those who were.

 

[aschaefer]

We must be mindful that these were letters written after the Church was established in various locations. I believe that St. Paul’s preaching included his death and Resurrection
because he was a missionary to non-Jews and without the Resurrection there is no Christianity.

 

[Crux_Sacra]

St Paul wrote in 70AD, which is only a short period of time after the Crucifixion, and it can only be assumed that the events surrounding the Crucifixion and Resurrection were common knowledge among the Christian population of the time, especially given the record of the miracles happening in Jerusalem.

So my question is this: why does St Paul, if the Crucifixion actually happened, not cite this event as proof of the truth of the Christian faith? Why is most of his letters talking about spiritual matters and not the historical truth of the death of Christ?

Just a little historical side note, since others have gone into great depth about St. Paul’s referring to the Crucifixion of Christ:

St. Paul was martyred in Rome about the years AD 64 -67, in either the 12th, 13th, or 14th year of the reign of Nero, who died in AD 68. Remember that he lived during the time of the Apostles. St. Peter also was martyred in Rome sometime during the same time period St. Paul was. The Gospel According to St. Mark was composed some time around AD 70, and it is considered to be the earliest-written Gospel. That means that the letters written by St. Paul predate even the Gospels. In the Second Letter of Peter, St. Peter refers to St. Paul’s letters as Scripture (2 Peter 3:16) when he refers to the Old Testament as “the other Scriptures.”

†God Bless!

 

[steve53]

St Paul wrote in 70AD, which is only a short period of time after the Crucifixion, and it can only be assumed that the events surrounding the Crucifixion and Resurrection were common knowledge among the Christian population of the time, especially given the record of the miracles happening in Jerusalem.

So my question is this: why does St Paul, if the Crucifixion actually happened, not cite this event as proof of the truth of the Christian faith? Why is most of his letters talking about spiritual matters and not the historical truth of the death of Christ?

Back to original question, a certain author has postulated that Paul (Saul of Tarsus) did play a role in the crucifixion of Jesus, but it was so horrific that Paul didn’t want to admit to it. Likewise, Paul said he held the clothes of those who stoned Stephen to death, but he could well have played a more aggressive role.
Saul of Tarsus was a thug, and maybe a vicious murderer. After his epiphany, it would hardly serve him to say that he was in the crowd who called out for Jesus’ Crucifixion, or assaulted Jesus when Jesus was carrying his cross . There are limits to forgiveness, after all. The early Christians were suspicious of him enough as it was.
In this scenario, Jesus would have been crucified in early A.D. 36, with Stephen being stoned several months later.

 

[Della]

Back to original question, a certain author has postulated that Paul (Saul of Tarsus) did play a role in the crucifixion of Jesus, but it was so horrific that Paul didn’t want to admit to it. Likewise, Paul said he held the clothes of those who stoned Stephen to death, but he could well have played a more aggressive role.
Saul of Tarsus was a thug, and maybe a vicious murderer. After his epiphany, it would hardly serve him to say that he was in the crowd who called out for Jesus’ Crucifixion, or assaulted Jesus when Jesus was carrying his cross . There are limits to forgiveness, after all. The early Christians were suspicious of him enough as it was.
In this scenario, Jesus would have been crucified in early A.D. 36, with Stephen being stoned several months later.

Paul’s purpose in writing his letters wasn’t to relate the life and mission of Jesus–he’d already done that in his teaching and preaching all around Asia Minor where he had established congregations. His purpose was to correct faults and bolster the faith, so he had no need to relate what happened at the cross itself, especially if he wasn’t there. He himself related that he was called as “one born out of time” by Christ whom he did not know, so it’s hardly likely he took part in the crucifixion.

As to the idea that “there are limits to forgiveness”, that’s not true except in apostacy. Even if Paul had been the cheerleader calling for Christ’s crucifixion, spit in his face, and hit him, he would still have been forgiven if he had done those things and asked forgiveness. Even Judas could have been forgiven if he’d wanted to be and asked. Jesus on the cross declared: “Father forgive them for they know not what they do”. Paul was a rigtheous man who thought by persecuting the Christians he was doing God a favor–much like militant Muslim terrorists bombing market places in the name of Allah. They, like he was, are misled and are redeemable, just as we all are.

 

[steve53]

Paul’s purpose in writing his letters wasn’t to relate the life and mission of Jesus–he’d already done that in his teaching and preaching all around Asia Minor where he had established congregations. His purpose was to correct faults and bolster the faith, so he had no need to relate what happened at the cross itself, especially if he wasn’t there. He himself related that he was called as “one born out of time” by Christ whom he did not know, so it’s hardly likely he took part in the crucifixion.

As to the idea that “there are limits to forgiveness”, that’s not true except in apostacy. Even if Paul had been the cheerleader calling for Christ’s crucifixion, spit in his face, and hit him, he would still have been forgiven if he had done those things and asked forgiveness. Even Judas could have been forgiven if he’d wanted to be and asked. Jesus on the cross declared: “Father forgive them for they know not what they do”. Paul was a rigtheous man who thought by persecuting the Christians he was doing God a favor–much like militant Muslim terrorists bombing market places in the name of Allah. They, like he was, are misled and are redeemable, just as we all are.

Would those who lost people in the Twin Towers have forgiven Bin Laden if Osama had a public “come to Jesus” epiphany?
Those were a lot rougher times two thousand years ago, and Jesus thought to be divine. And the Galileans were working-class men.

What’s with the “Tiber Swim Team”? Is there a story there, or just cruel tragedy?

 

[Usagi]

What’s with the “Tiber Swim Team”? Is there a story there, or just cruel tragedy?

The Tiber is the river on which the city of Rome sits. “Swimming the Tiber” is a colorful way of referring to conversion to Catholicism. Converts on these forums often list themselves as members of the Tiber Swim Team for the year of their reception into the Catholic Church.

Usagi