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tabycat
Guest
For the same reason that the average nonCstholic knows little about the church they go to:shrug:.It is easier to set in a pew on Sunday morning then coming out on another day/night for a class.
Why Does The Catholic Church Do Such A Poor Job Teaching Its Members?
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benjohnson
Guest
Several parents of local Catholic parish send their children to our Lutheran Sunday school. I’m happy that our standards are high enough , but it absolutly shocks me that it’s they don’t have their own Sunday school.
From a Lutheran point of view, the Catholic Church should hand out the CCC for free to anybody who asks. The CCC is a bold step for the Catholic Church and good things will come form it. Combined with EWTN, and Catholic Answers, I really see a reawakening in the American Catholic Church.
From a Lutheran point of view, the Catholic Church should hand out the CCC for free to anybody who asks. The CCC is a bold step for the Catholic Church and good things will come form it. Combined with EWTN, and Catholic Answers, I really see a reawakening in the American Catholic Church.
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TimothyH
Guest
It’s like a giant buffet, and you know you will never get to everything, and that makes you sad, but you go to the buffet tables anyway, and fill your plate, as much as you want.as one waiting for RCIA to begin, i am OVERWHELMED with how much there is to learn about Catholicism!
it’s like trying to sip water from a fire hose
i am having a blast reading everything i can get my hands on and bothering my priests with questions…
wish i had more hours in the day to study:shrug:
-Tim-
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wasserfall
Guest
It shocks me that Catholic parents would do such a thing, but then again, they obviously weren’t sufficiently catechized themselves.
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nightranger
Guest
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YoungTradCath
Guest
Yes but let’s keep the figurative language as it is because this could easily be tweaked to be about cafeteria Catholicism!It’s like a giant buffet, and you know you will never get to everything, and that makes you sad, but you go to the buffet tables anyway, and fill your plate, as much as you want.
-Tim-
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benjohnson
Guest
That assumption is perhaps not correct. The Catholic parents that assist in the classrooms are very knowledgeable; I have no problem having my Lutheran children learn at their feet.
The important thing is not that “there’s innocent Catholic children being subjugated to bad Lutheran teaching” but “There’s a thriving Catholic parish that doesn’t have a needed child education program.”
I’m trying to share that works for us.
I would also say that given my experiences, that some Lutheran can do really good sermons. Personally, I think that one of the most important teaching opportunities available, as it reaches people that may not ordinarily seek out knowledge.
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Andre1000
Guest
In my area are tons of catholic educational programs and in public schools is catholic religion education a subject (in school the religion teachers are appointed by the bishop), so the number is good but almost all of them are heretical and there is no CCC. I offered my help for a CCC but the priest did not like the idea because the Protestants here might be upset.
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smallgirl01
Guest
wish you all the best on the journey to the one true apostolic church…welcome.as one waiting for RCIA to begin, i am OVERWHELMED with how much there is to learn about Catholicism!
it’s like trying to sip water from a fire hose
i am having a blast reading everything i can get my hands on and bothering my priests with questions…
wish i had more hours in the day to study:shrug:
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kkollwitz
Guest
Adult Catholics must act like adults when it comes to their faith and not loll around waiting to be coddled and taught like 3rd graders. Adults learn all kinds of stuff on their own all the time because they are interested in knowing more. So I would ask the question:
Why do lazy Catholics blame their own indolence on the Church?
Why do lazy Catholics blame their own indolence on the Church?
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marlap2
Guest
Poor job?
I’m having a hard time finding an empty parking spot any day of the week at my parish, and we have a school, a library, a full church, several meeting rooms, a youth building with 4 meeting rooms upstairs, a convent and a basement. No room for a bible study meeting. All being used up in various cathetical or prayer services or AA meetings, or or or. And you don’t want to make noise in the Perpetual Adoration Room. It’s full of people praying with Jesus, sigh. The bible study I was facilitating was too small so I ended up having it at my house. There’s other bible studies going on during other days of the week. We have RCIA, RCIT (for teens) prayer groups, Couples for Christ, Teens for Christ, Singles for Christ, Handmaids of the Lord, Prayer groups, and Marian Devotions, The Catholicism Series video for 10 weeks, and I hear there is going to be a Coming Home group too. The youth group is only 150 kids. And they are always hanging around, laughing and dancing around the youth centre. Go figure. They are practicing for the Marian Procession this weekend so there’s even more kids showing up every day. The 200 newly confirmed will probably take up valuable space too on Sunday during the Procession. Guess I’ll have to park down the street. Sigh again.
Basically if your church needs more resources, learn, talk to your priest and do it! 60 is young, for heaven’s sake. There is no word for retirement in the bible. Like they said in that movie… Build it and they will come… lol
And I agree with all the other people who have already spoken about all the valuable resources available online. PODCASTS are amazing as well. My poor little Ipod is flooded with them and I listen to Catholic resources all day long while I work.
I’m having a hard time finding an empty parking spot any day of the week at my parish, and we have a school, a library, a full church, several meeting rooms, a youth building with 4 meeting rooms upstairs, a convent and a basement. No room for a bible study meeting. All being used up in various cathetical or prayer services or AA meetings, or or or. And you don’t want to make noise in the Perpetual Adoration Room. It’s full of people praying with Jesus, sigh. The bible study I was facilitating was too small so I ended up having it at my house. There’s other bible studies going on during other days of the week. We have RCIA, RCIT (for teens) prayer groups, Couples for Christ, Teens for Christ, Singles for Christ, Handmaids of the Lord, Prayer groups, and Marian Devotions, The Catholicism Series video for 10 weeks, and I hear there is going to be a Coming Home group too. The youth group is only 150 kids. And they are always hanging around, laughing and dancing around the youth centre. Go figure. They are practicing for the Marian Procession this weekend so there’s even more kids showing up every day. The 200 newly confirmed will probably take up valuable space too on Sunday during the Procession. Guess I’ll have to park down the street. Sigh again.
Basically if your church needs more resources, learn, talk to your priest and do it! 60 is young, for heaven’s sake. There is no word for retirement in the bible. Like they said in that movie… Build it and they will come… lol
And I agree with all the other people who have already spoken about all the valuable resources available online. PODCASTS are amazing as well. My poor little Ipod is flooded with them and I listen to Catholic resources all day long while I work.
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BCRaven05
Guest
I can relate to this. In my experience it is easy to blame the Church for a lack of education or options provided, but with a liitle effort and talking to the priest, you can find many resources (I know, because I recently started getting off my rear and started to actively seek the Word of God). Realistically, the Bible is the most owned book in the world and the least read book in the world. My wife and I are currently in The Great Adventure bible study course, and it has been wonderful.
That said, I grew up in a Catholic family and went to Catholic grade school and high school and am embarassed at how little I learned or retained. About a month or two ago some family members were discussing Fatima, and I (horrifyingly embarassed) hadn’t even heard of this. I admit, I was not much of a practicing Catholic prior to about a month and a half ago where I have really come back to the faith and just have a real hunger to learn more about my faith and am just so invigorated.
So I can see both sides of this argument. I think the Catholic school system could do a better job of teaching our youth, especially at the higher grade levels where more mature Catholic themes can be discussed. This is just my opinion, but I also can’t blame (and am not blaming) the Catholic church for my ignorance and laziness… I am just happy and excited that God lit a fire inside of me to really learn the Word of God and follow him more closely.
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kkollwitz
Guest
“I am just happy and excited that God lit a fire inside of me to really learn the Word of God and follow him more closely.”
Me, too…why it’s like being born again or something!
Me, too…why it’s like being born again or something!
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guanophore
Guest
You are right that taking up our cross and carrying it is difficult to bear. But you are not right about the nature of fulfillment. There are plenty of people who are married with a good job that are not fulfilled.
What makes the burden light is when the yoke “fits”. We are to be pulling the weight with Jesus yoked next to us. That is why nothing that happens to us is ever too much for us to bear. It is not we who bear it, but Christ within us. Joy is not a question of circumstance, as God can cause us to be fulfilled in every circumstance.
The reason he allows us to fall upon hard times is so that He can deepen our relationship with Him.
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Kenneth_Jones
Guest
JMJ
It’s great to read about folks wanting to know more about their Faith. I count myself in that number. Getting a handle on what happened, and how to prevent it, takes some understanding of process.
I remember reading somewhere the phrase, “From shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in three generations.”
Consider how my grandfather was a pauper, my father found success but I am, alas, again a pauper. Nothing my father did, however successful he was, seemed to have prepared me for the struggle to be successful. The reason for that might very well be that he simply didn’t know what to teach me, or how to teach it.
In fact, if he had not found it necessary to study for success himself, he might not even have realized that such effort was required at all.
Not having an understanding of the reasons makes the action less significant, perhaps even to the point of being arbitrary, or even undesirable in changed circumstances. (How many of us have said to our parents that they Just Don’t Understand at one time or another?)
Indeed, we might not have shared the same world view with our kids, but there certainly were more points of agreement than not, at least seen in retrospect. The trouble with passing along any traditional thought (how to succeed in the family business like your old man did–and how to keep it successful, for example) requires not only that we pass along the details, but that we instruct how to continue to pass along the details, and that Passing Along is a part of the teaching / learning process.
Let’s see if I can make this clear. Not only do we have the obligation to pass along our Faith (including its small-t traditions) but we have to explain that our children have to do it too, when it’s their turn. “Pay attention, you’re responsible for telling your own children about this.”
A strong faith life means more than regular attendance at Mass, for one example; it means not only explaining to the youngsters what we’re doing, and why they’re going with us even if they would rather sleep late, but it also means that (likely later in their lives) we must return to the lesson and add in the next part–that they need to explain the actions, the behaviors, not just demand them when they are old enough to be parents themselves. Identifying students as teachers-in-training is critical. We grown-ups must teach the how part as soon as it can be absorbed, and then we must teach the why part when it’s also able to be understood.
Did any of this make sense? Life training, faith training is recursive, circular, not linear.
In the terms of our Faith, the problem is called “poorly catechized” but while that is a reasonable explanation, it does little to solve the problem or to prevent its recurrence. We need to realize that we (you and me, brothers and sisters) have to pass on the fullness of the Faith, not just the rubrics.
Ken
It’s great to read about folks wanting to know more about their Faith. I count myself in that number. Getting a handle on what happened, and how to prevent it, takes some understanding of process.
I remember reading somewhere the phrase, “From shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in three generations.”
Consider how my grandfather was a pauper, my father found success but I am, alas, again a pauper. Nothing my father did, however successful he was, seemed to have prepared me for the struggle to be successful. The reason for that might very well be that he simply didn’t know what to teach me, or how to teach it.
In fact, if he had not found it necessary to study for success himself, he might not even have realized that such effort was required at all.
Not having an understanding of the reasons makes the action less significant, perhaps even to the point of being arbitrary, or even undesirable in changed circumstances. (How many of us have said to our parents that they Just Don’t Understand at one time or another?)
Indeed, we might not have shared the same world view with our kids, but there certainly were more points of agreement than not, at least seen in retrospect. The trouble with passing along any traditional thought (how to succeed in the family business like your old man did–and how to keep it successful, for example) requires not only that we pass along the details, but that we instruct how to continue to pass along the details, and that Passing Along is a part of the teaching / learning process.
Let’s see if I can make this clear. Not only do we have the obligation to pass along our Faith (including its small-t traditions) but we have to explain that our children have to do it too, when it’s their turn. “Pay attention, you’re responsible for telling your own children about this.”
A strong faith life means more than regular attendance at Mass, for one example; it means not only explaining to the youngsters what we’re doing, and why they’re going with us even if they would rather sleep late, but it also means that (likely later in their lives) we must return to the lesson and add in the next part–that they need to explain the actions, the behaviors, not just demand them when they are old enough to be parents themselves. Identifying students as teachers-in-training is critical. We grown-ups must teach the how part as soon as it can be absorbed, and then we must teach the why part when it’s also able to be understood.
Did any of this make sense? Life training, faith training is recursive, circular, not linear.
In the terms of our Faith, the problem is called “poorly catechized” but while that is a reasonable explanation, it does little to solve the problem or to prevent its recurrence. We need to realize that we (you and me, brothers and sisters) have to pass on the fullness of the Faith, not just the rubrics.
Ken
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kkollwitz
Guest
“Pay attention, you’re responsible for telling your own children about this.” Yes. I am very explicit about this in my 6th-grade class:
“He established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, which he commanded our fathers to teach to their children; 6 that the next generation might know them, the children yet unborn, and arise and tell them to their children”
“He established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, which he commanded our fathers to teach to their children; 6 that the next generation might know them, the children yet unborn, and arise and tell them to their children”
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guanophore
Guest
This is very true. I was very poorly catechized, and after I was confirmed I developed a craving for the Scripture. I ended up in a Baptist bible study and wandered away from the faith for 20 some years. During part of that time I blamed the Church for not telling me the Truth,but I never studied my faith until I got into a Protestant Seminary, and discovered there were Catholic resources. Duh! :doh2:
I did have a very 3rd grade attitude that I should be spoon fed.
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CalCatholic
Guest
I agree!
I grew up with no religion in my life, went to secular schools (the only time that God was ever mentioned in my life was in ‘The Pledge of Allegiance’). I did not discover Christianity until I was 47 years old (thanks to the Holy Spirit). So how do other Catholics who were exposed all their lives to teachings of the Church (in some way or form) strengthen their faith and knowledge of the Catholic Church? The same way that converts to the Church do; through exploring your faith, reading of Church history, the Early Church Fathers, read the Bible with good Catholic commentary, attend Bible study, take classes, etc. And most importantly, pray to God for faith and knowledge!
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iloveangels
Guest
The Catholic church does an absolutely terrible job of catechesis, but it’s not much of a priority, either for the Church at large, the parishes or the individual Catholics.
Lots of talk to the contrary because no one wants to admit they’re a slob, but most Catholics are not really serious about it. They think they already know everything that matters. Or they don’t care because they think they had no say in becoming Catholic in the first place. Sad but true.
People who want to understand what they need to live a Christian life usually need to go through a perilous do-it-yourself program which is usually only partly effective, but it’s better than nothing.
Lots of talk to the contrary because no one wants to admit they’re a slob, but most Catholics are not really serious about it. They think they already know everything that matters. Or they don’t care because they think they had no say in becoming Catholic in the first place. Sad but true.
People who want to understand what they need to live a Christian life usually need to go through a perilous do-it-yourself program which is usually only partly effective, but it’s better than nothing.
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kkollwitz
Guest
All true. When my wife and I first began as catechists teaching RCIA in 1999, we had to jettison all of the RCIA materials we were given; and with the pastor’s permission write a syllabus from scratch. The only way out of this intergenerational poor-catechesis churn is for motivated adults to self-catechize, then get into the classrooms and teach the kids a robust and orthodox faith.
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