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Fill1sHeart
Guest
All these sexual abuse cases have caused so much pain to the Church. I know God fearing Irish Catholic’s who have turned away because of the poor handling of certain situations…
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tweedlealice
Guest
Well, you know. His assailant is dead. He’s a priest w some degree of vows of Chasity. Poverty & OBEDIENCE. So, he shouldn’t be getting money & he needs to be obedient. Curious. What is his motive. He’s to forgive the dead priest. If he were stil the altar boy, go for it. Curious
God heal his hurts & bring him to forgiveness & mercy in You. In Jesus name. Amen
God heal his hurts & bring him to forgiveness & mercy in You. In Jesus name. Amen
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Jbrady
Guest
Secular priests do not take a vow of poverty. And the vow of obedience does not mean he cannot sue the diocese in civil court for wrongdoing.He’s a priest w some degree of vows of Chasity. Poverty & OBEDIENCE.
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redbetta
Guest
I have noticed that, whenever a new piece comes out about the Church and sexual abuse, it always is about cases that have happened and where covered up at least 30 years ago. The fact nobody seems to be able to dig up enough stuff that has happened within the last decade or two tells me that the Church has learned and is NOT failing.
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stpurl
Guest
The Catholic Churchis not failing.
Are public schools ‘failing on sexual abuse?”
Are the Boy Scouts‘failing on sexual abuse?
Are parents ‘failing on sexual abuse”?
Most people don’t even ‘fail the boy scouts’ (except for lawyers) but rather recognize that individuals **within **the scouts, individuals who acted **against **the entire core and teachings of the Scouts, went ‘off’.
Public school teachers likewise went against the whole rationale and teachings of the public school system when they abused.
Preachers in the Baptist or Lutheran or non denoms, Muslim Imans, Jewish Rabbis, etc., all went against their teachings to abuse.
But somehow, it is only ‘the Catholic Church” who ‘keeps on failing’.
Even though the individuals, whether priest or bishop, went against **their **teachings as well.
But as long as people insist on making this a “Catholic Church’ issue, they direct attention away from the whole root causes of abuse throughout the world, and make it look as though abuse happens in the Catholic Church because of the whole **system ** of the Church.
You won’t hear how much the ‘system’ of public schools leads to ‘easy abuse’ because the whole narrative of ‘celibate priests’ and ‘bishops out to protect good names’ would **blow up ** if one applied it to public schools, whose ‘name’ is not perceived as being ‘moral authority’, and whose abusers are not celibate!
But if you make the whole issue the failures of “The Catholic Church’ instead of ‘some priests and some bishops’, you know, like the way they do about ‘some teachers and some school officials”, you can pretend that just about **all **abuse comes from the Catholic Church and ‘religion’ and extremism and ‘denial of healthy sex’ and then say, “Obviously that proves the Church has no moral authority’.
But people would much rather feel it’s all “The Catholic Church” failing. Even sometimes when they’re Catholics themselves. It gives them a little justification to ignore some ‘unpopular’ teachings because, “look at the **abuse **from the hierarchy, can’t trust them to know about sex.”
Does that mean I **excuse **abusers? Heck no. They should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. They are a stain on society and a stain to the Church whose Laws they broke.
But stop with the “Catholic church keeps failing’ and make it accurate.
Why do men and women, even though who claim to be Christian, especially those who claim to be Christian, keep failing and abusing people?
That’s the real question.
Are public schools ‘failing on sexual abuse?”
Are the Boy Scouts‘failing on sexual abuse?
Are parents ‘failing on sexual abuse”?
Most people don’t even ‘fail the boy scouts’ (except for lawyers) but rather recognize that individuals **within **the scouts, individuals who acted **against **the entire core and teachings of the Scouts, went ‘off’.
Public school teachers likewise went against the whole rationale and teachings of the public school system when they abused.
Preachers in the Baptist or Lutheran or non denoms, Muslim Imans, Jewish Rabbis, etc., all went against their teachings to abuse.
But somehow, it is only ‘the Catholic Church” who ‘keeps on failing’.
Even though the individuals, whether priest or bishop, went against **their **teachings as well.
But as long as people insist on making this a “Catholic Church’ issue, they direct attention away from the whole root causes of abuse throughout the world, and make it look as though abuse happens in the Catholic Church because of the whole **system ** of the Church.
You won’t hear how much the ‘system’ of public schools leads to ‘easy abuse’ because the whole narrative of ‘celibate priests’ and ‘bishops out to protect good names’ would **blow up ** if one applied it to public schools, whose ‘name’ is not perceived as being ‘moral authority’, and whose abusers are not celibate!
But if you make the whole issue the failures of “The Catholic Church’ instead of ‘some priests and some bishops’, you know, like the way they do about ‘some teachers and some school officials”, you can pretend that just about **all **abuse comes from the Catholic Church and ‘religion’ and extremism and ‘denial of healthy sex’ and then say, “Obviously that proves the Church has no moral authority’.
But people would much rather feel it’s all “The Catholic Church” failing. Even sometimes when they’re Catholics themselves. It gives them a little justification to ignore some ‘unpopular’ teachings because, “look at the **abuse **from the hierarchy, can’t trust them to know about sex.”
Does that mean I **excuse **abusers? Heck no. They should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. They are a stain on society and a stain to the Church whose Laws they broke.
But stop with the “Catholic church keeps failing’ and make it accurate.
Why do men and women, even though who claim to be Christian, especially those who claim to be Christian, keep failing and abusing people?
That’s the real question.
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Jbrady
Guest
That’s a fail. There are indeed recent cases, as well. And a big reason why there are fewer is that parents and kids are a lot more wary about being alone with priests, and are much more likely to speak up about any misbehavior to the legal authorities and the press, and ignore the request of their pastor or bishop to be discreet.I have noticed that, whenever a new piece comes out about the Church and sexual abuse, it always is about cases that have happened and where covered up at least 30 years ago.
Yes, the situation has greatly improved, but that is largely because the reluctant hierarchy was forced to change, kicking and screaming, rather than out of the goodness of their hearts.
Without the countless lawsuits costing billions of dollars and millions of lost adherents, as well as a ton of bad press, I highly doubt that things would have changed much.
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Jbrady
Guest
One of the main reasons is that US bishops have spent millions of dollars to make sure that they were protected by terms of limitation laws that made it impossible for victims and prosecutors to initiate court action against the Church.
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redbetta
Guest
Other big reasons is that parishes employ a lot more precautions as to who is allowed to volunteer with children and seminaries are doing more filter candidates for the seminary. If I recall correctly, there were some threads on here years ago people complaining about nobody wanting to volunteer at their parish because of all the hoops you have to jump through.That’s a fail. There are indeed recent cases, as well. And a big reason why there are fewer is that parents and kids are a lot more wary about being alone with priests, and are much more likely to speak up about any misbehavior to the legal authorities and the press, and ignore the request of their pastor or bishop to be discreet.
The idea that the Church has done nothing or very little to stop abuse is ridiculous and a fail.
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Jbrady
Guest
I did not say that, or anything close. I said that the hierarchy were forced to improve, and would probably have done little or nothig had a gun not been held to their heads.The idea that the Church has done nothing or very little to stop abuse is ridiculous.
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stpurl
Guest
No that is notwhat I was saying at all. However, thatcharge is always thrown out, as though simply noting the truth—that abuse cuts across all persons, all countries, and all institutions—is somehow trying to claim ‘everybody is as bad’.
It’s a lovely way to ‘choke off’ reasoned discussion at the start, isn’t it? Any type of talk can always be dismissed because the person is ‘trying to defend the indefensible’.
I am notdefending the Catholic Church by saying, It’s OK that individuals abused, they did in other places TOO. Really, read my post. Try to have an open mind such that the knee jerk reaction to hearing people say, “The fault of abuse is not from one particular institution, and aiming all charges at one particular institution will not aide in addressing the root cause of abuse itself” which is what I actually said, doesn’t bring the tired, “You’re trying to say others are just as bad’, and actually listen.
If the fault cuts across the board, what can we do to address the abuse itself?
Can you answer me that? Not just ‘the Catholic Church’, but everywhere?
If you have some good ideas, let them rip.
It’s a lovely way to ‘choke off’ reasoned discussion at the start, isn’t it? Any type of talk can always be dismissed because the person is ‘trying to defend the indefensible’.
I am notdefending the Catholic Church by saying, It’s OK that individuals abused, they did in other places TOO. Really, read my post. Try to have an open mind such that the knee jerk reaction to hearing people say, “The fault of abuse is not from one particular institution, and aiming all charges at one particular institution will not aide in addressing the root cause of abuse itself” which is what I actually said, doesn’t bring the tired, “You’re trying to say others are just as bad’, and actually listen.
If the fault cuts across the board, what can we do to address the abuse itself?
Can you answer me that? Not just ‘the Catholic Church’, but everywhere?
If you have some good ideas, let them rip.
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stpurl
Guest
Right. Because naturally the hierarchy only wish to keep on engaging in wrong behavior.
What a very. . Cynical and sad attitude to hold toward any people.
What a very. . Cynical and sad attitude to hold toward any people.
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adamhovey1988
Guest
There was a false accusation against my Bishop, for when he was a chaplain to the Boy Scouts, and do you know what? My Bishop is still the bishop of my diocese, because the charges were dropped, because it turned out the guy was lying. And this is not the first time that my Bishop had been accused of that. We need to remember, an accusation is just that, an accusation. Then that gets the levels of of absurdity, where in Australia, Cardinal Pell who had never had anything against him, until the state of Victoria decided that there was something that he did, gets charged and arrested, for something that was not even possible. Although that’s since fortunately been overturned. We need to stop presuming guilt in these cases. I know, that’s just a rant , but it is serious.
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adamhovey1988
Guest
What about the accusations against Joe Biden? Why does the government keep failing against protecting us from politicians? Why do Public Schools keep failing to protect our children? The Church is a Divine institution, made up of Fallen people. I don’t know about the rest of the world, but my diocese has some very specific and strict protocols in place to prevent stuff like this. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, in fact I know it has, and that is one of those protocols fail, or they’re not being enforced.
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catholiclala
Guest
Thank you! Incidents still happen and unfortunately sexual abuse will never be fully eradicated (what sin is) from any institution. My deepest sympathies for any victims of this heinous crime but you are correct that the vast majority of these cases are from so long ago. How can these incidents be truly proven from decades ago? And now priests are considered guilty until proven innocent. Yesterday I was watching a video from someone in the debt free community on Youtube. One of the ads flashed was a law firm asking for clients who had been abused by clergy. I thought it awful telling that this ad flashed on a channel where people often go to learn about ways to make money through side hustles. In no way am I implying how many people are making claims for monetary gain, but it exists and people are naive if they think it doesn’t. The sex abuse crisis is evil, from many angles.
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BornInMarch
Guest
You raise a good point. In any situation where an adult has power over children there will be some adults who abuse that power; presenting it as a uniquely catholic issue only serves to promote anti-Catholicism and to hide abuses in other organizations.
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redbetta
Guest
In a lot of the cases, the accused has been long dead and I do not understand they think anything can be proved.
To be honest, I have become extremely cynical about sexual abuse/harassment claims because it is used so often to just get back at someone or to make a quick buck. Look at all the women who come out of the woodwork to accuse a political candidate of sexually assaulting them decades ago. I know it might take a while for someone to work up the courage to tell the appropriate authorities about these things, but it is just interesting how it always happens around election time. There is very little doubt that, in at least some of these cases, there is politcal or monetary motive.
To be honest, I have become extremely cynical about sexual abuse/harassment claims because it is used so often to just get back at someone or to make a quick buck. Look at all the women who come out of the woodwork to accuse a political candidate of sexually assaulting them decades ago. I know it might take a while for someone to work up the courage to tell the appropriate authorities about these things, but it is just interesting how it always happens around election time. There is very little doubt that, in at least some of these cases, there is politcal or monetary motive.
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ChuckB
Guest
Yes, abusers are found throughout society. But, it’s the Catholic Church that keeps on trying to claim the moral high ground while at the same time enabling it’s abusers.But somehow, it is only ‘the Catholic Church” who ‘keeps on failing’.
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Fill1sHeart
Guest
Thank you for your honest post.Thank you! Incidents still happen and unfortunately sexual abuse will never be fully eradicated (what sin is) from any institution. My deepest sympathies for any victims of this heinous crime but you are correct that the vast majority of these cases are from so long ago. How can these incidents be truly proven from decades ago? And now priests are considered guilty until proven innocent. Yesterday I was watching a video from someone in the debt free community on Youtube. One of the ads flashed was a law firm asking for clients who had been abused by clergy. I thought it awful telling that this ad flashed on a channel where people often go to learn about ways to make money through side hustles. In no way am I implying how many people are making claims for monetary gain, but it exists and people are naive if they think it doesn’t. The sex abuse crisis is evil, from many angles.
Not many Catholics have replied here… Speaks volumes…
I know many good Catholic and non Catholic priests and they all agree the damage is huge…
One Retired Priest I know very well who turned 90 not long ago. Said the heaviest thing his heart carries is seeing what damage the sex scandals have done to the church… And the way it was poorly dealt with from within…
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stpurl
Guest
You see, you are proving my point here. Pray tell me exactly how ‘the Catholic Church’ ‘claims the moral high ground while enabling its abusers’.
You’re comparing apples and oranges.
The moral high ground is found in the teachingsof the Church. Last I looked, “thou shalt sexually abuse and coverup same’ was not a doctrine, dogma, or discipline.
IOW, those who abuse are going against the Church.
It seems to me that what you want is an impeccableChurch. A church whose ‘claim to moral highground’ is in the ‘sinlessness’ of its adherents.
And that’s ridiculous. Christ came to save sinners His sacrifice didn’t then turn His followers into perfect sinless people, did it? Even the saints made mistakes. St. Paul was a murderer. St. Augustine was a fornicator. St. Peter was a coward. But in the end, they all rose above their sins.
It’s kind of sickening the way that people want to lick their chops over ‘enablers’ and “The Catholic Church’ while ignoring abuse causes. What you’re doing now is enabling every non Catholic priest or bishop to just go ahead and abuse. How is that your moral ‘highground’ then, to perpetuate abuse by the many while pretending you’re concerned about abuse by the few?
You’re comparing apples and oranges.
The moral high ground is found in the teachingsof the Church. Last I looked, “thou shalt sexually abuse and coverup same’ was not a doctrine, dogma, or discipline.
IOW, those who abuse are going against the Church.
It seems to me that what you want is an impeccableChurch. A church whose ‘claim to moral highground’ is in the ‘sinlessness’ of its adherents.
And that’s ridiculous. Christ came to save sinners His sacrifice didn’t then turn His followers into perfect sinless people, did it? Even the saints made mistakes. St. Paul was a murderer. St. Augustine was a fornicator. St. Peter was a coward. But in the end, they all rose above their sins.
It’s kind of sickening the way that people want to lick their chops over ‘enablers’ and “The Catholic Church’ while ignoring abuse causes. What you’re doing now is enabling every non Catholic priest or bishop to just go ahead and abuse. How is that your moral ‘highground’ then, to perpetuate abuse by the many while pretending you’re concerned about abuse by the few?
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