Why does the Father know something that the Son does not know?

[Stephen_Korsman]

There is another similar discussion over here - Does/Did the Holy Spirit know the day or the hour?

In short, no. The Son knows all the Father knows. Statements from popes to this effect:

“If anyone says that the one Jesus Christ who is both true Son of God and true Son of man did not know the future or the day of the Last Judgment and that he could know only as much as the divinity, dwelling in him as in another, revealed to him, anathema sit.” (Pope Vigilius, Constitutum I of 14 May 553)

The following proposition is condemned: “The natural meaning of the Gospel texts cannot be reconciled with what our theologians teach about the consciousness and the infallible knowledge of Jesus Christ.” (Pope Pius X, Lamentabili of 1907)

The following proposition is condemned: “A critic cannot assert that Christ’s knowledge was unlimited, unless by making the hypothesis, which is historically inconceivable and morally repugnant, that Christ as man had God’s knowledge and yet was unwilling to communicate so much knowledge to his disciples and posterity.” (Pope Pius X, Lamentabili of 1907)

The following proposition is rejected: “The opinion cannot be declared certain, which holds that the soul of Christ was ignorant of nothing but from the beginning knew in the Word everything, past, present and future, that is to say everything which God knows with the ‘knowledge of vision’.” (Pope Benedict XV, Decree of the Holy Office of 1918)

The following proposition is rejected: “The recent opinion of some about the limited knowledge of the soul of Christ is not to be less favoured in Catholic schools than the ancient opinion about his universal knowledge.” (Pope Benedict XV, Decree of the Holy Office of 1918)

Source: Did Jesus know the day and the hour of the Apocalypse? over at The New Theological Movement blog.

A brief look at the Vulgate for Mark 13:32 shows that the word “Son” isn’t there - the matter is not for general knowledge, including angels, but limited to the Father. In that sense the knowledge has its source in the Father (as do all things), which doesn’t exclude Jesus from knowing. This allows for him to know, and say “it’s none of your business.” Some English translations translate it in such a way. (Tyndale, Young, Modern KJV, Douay-Rheims, American Standard Version in my current list.) The ASV has a footnote saying that many ancient versions omit the Son, so that may be a later addition.

 

[steve_b]

Undoubtedly the relationship is that of a Father to a Son, I am not questioning that - Jesus has said precisely that and we should take him at his word (he is divine - he could not have misspoken). However, I do wonder if the church doctrine that Jesus is equal (or co-equal) to the Father is entirely accurate. Jesus himself has said that there are things the Father knows that he does not. Again we should take him at his word instead of trying to change the meaning (for emotional or political reasons). Maybe Jesus is not equal to the Father in certain respects? (This does not mean he is not divine or that he is not God)

1. As Jesus describes of Himself

• Jn 5:19 the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.
• **Jn 6:*38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me;
• Jn 8:29 The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him."
• Jn 12:49 For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it.
• **Jn 12:50 “**whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”
• Jn 14:10 The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
• **Jn 14:31 **I do exactly what my Father has commanded me.

Jesus is perfectly obedient. To be otherwise He wouldn’t have been the perfect sacrifice for us. Therefore the answer to the question of the thread is in these quotes. If Jesus didn’t give the answer to a question, the Father didn’t want certain information known to us, like when is the end of the world, for example.

2. Jesus has 2 natures Divine and human. In His divine nature He is equal to the Father. Because the divine nature is one, Father, Son, Holy Spirit

 

[openmind77]

1. As Jesus describes of Himself

• Jn 5:19 the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.
• **Jn 6:*38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me;
• Jn 8:29 The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him."
• Jn 12:49 For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it.
• **Jn 12:50 “**whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”
• Jn 14:10 The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
• **Jn 14:31 **I do exactly what my Father has commanded me.

Jesus is perfectly obedient. To be otherwise He wouldn’t have been the perfect sacrifice for us. Therefore the answer to the question of the thread is in these quotes. If Jesus didn’t give the answer to a question, the Father didn’t want certain information known to us, like when is the end of the world, for example.

2. Jesus has 2 natures Divine and human. In His divine nature He is equal to the Father. Because the divine nature is one, Father, Son, Holy Spirit

I understand what Jesus has said - he is being very clear without playing with words.

I guess to me, obedience and equality just don’t quite add up. Jesus never claimed that his own divine nature was equal to that of the Father, but somehow that seems to have been read into what he said.

But we should leave it that - we can say Jesus’s divine nature is equal to that of the Father, unless a new revelation tells us otherwise - hopefully people do not reject the new revelation merely on the basis of this church dogma.

 

[Zekariya]

But we should leave it that - we can say Jesus’s divine nature is equal to that of the Father, unless a new revelation tells us otherwise - hopefully people do not reject the new revelation merely on the basis of this church dogma.

My human nature is equal to your human nature. We are human.
Christ’s divine nature is equal to the Father’s divine nature. They are God.

A human’s son has the same human nature as the parent.
The Father’s Son has the same divine nature as the Father.

 

[openmind77]

My human nature is equal to your human nature. We are human.
Christ’s divine nature is equal to the Father’s divine nature. They are God.

A human’s son has the same human nature as the parent.
The Father’s Son has the same divine nature as the Father.

I guess you could see it that way, but frankly, I could never say that I am equal to my own father. He will always be my superior no matter what I do or accomplish (although I was never a very obedient son),

 

[JimG]

Of course Christ’s divine nature is equal to the Father’s divine nature. There is only ONE divine nature. Father, Son, and Spirit all possess the ONE divine nature!

Christ also has a human nature. A human nature is by definition not equal to the divine nature. That’s the whole point of Christ becoming man, to be human like us, but withut sin.