Why does the Holy Father not speak out?

[toughcritic]

For years traditional Catholics have been outraged at the public behavior and protestations of many of our so called “Catholic” politicians in their support of abortion rights and homosexual marriage in their speeches and their congressional voiting. In addition, many so called Lay Catholics also support these issues. Yet these so called Catholics continue to remain in the church and receive the Eucharist. Many strong bishops have refused the Eucharist to these people but it is not univesal. Why does not our strong Pope make a universal declaration of condemnation of these issues and the people-politicians who support them? This issue must be addressed internationally and in a strong Catholic manner and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[nicolep]

The bishops have done so on several occasions. Also, the CCC says this -

2272 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. “A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,” “by the very commission of the offense,” and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law. The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.

It doesn’t get clearer than that…formal cooperation and procuring causes excommunication.

As far as homosexual marriages go, the bishops seem to be the one’s standing up and saying it’s wrong. There are Catholics who just don’t do as the Church says. What more can really be done?

 

[toughcritic]

The bishops have done so on several occasions. Also, the CCC says this -

It doesn’t get clearer than that…formal cooperation and procuring causes excommunication.

As far as homosexual marriages go, the bishops seem to be the one’s standing up and saying it’s wrong. There are Catholics who just don’t do as the Church says. What more can really be done?

I am well aware of what the “Church” has said on both subjects but my question refers specifically to the more wishy washy response in the various diocese across the country to both issues. These politicians and lay Catholics go their own way and there rarely, if ever, seems to be an official statement to these people that they are wrong. Nancy Pelosi, Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, Joe Biden, Patrick Leahy, Rudy Giuliani and countless other so called Catholic politicians continue to scandalize the Church with their inappropriate public reception of the Holy Eurcharist. This is why I believe a formal statement on both issues by the Holy Father, to the world media, is necessary so that there is no doubt as to the status of these public sinners in the eyes of the Roman Catholic Church and everybody else who considers themselves to be Catholic.

 

[nicolep]

Here’s an article I found -

lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/apr/08040408.html

As to why Pope Benedict XVI doesn’t come out and directly say something…well, he has. Again, what more can be done?

Edit - Also, I agree with you. Any one (politician or not) that disagrees with the Church on these matters doesn’t deserve to received our Holy Eucharist. I just don’t think that there is anything else the bishops, etc can do.

 

[Christy_Beth]

While excommunication is the appropriate action here, or, at least, I think so, it would be hard to maintain that. With all of the Eucharist Ministers out there, would they know of everyone who shouldn’t receive? (and I do know that the appropriate title is: Extraordinary minister of the Eucharist.)

 

[nicolep]

While excommunication is the appropriate action here, or, at least, I think so, it would be hard to maintain that. With all of the Eucharist Ministers out there, would they know of everyone who shouldn’t receive? (and I do know that the appropriate title is: Extraordinary minister of the Eucharist.)

That’s pretty much the point I’m getting at. The Pope is darn busy. How could he specifically address the issues? Even when he was here, he made comments about these things. The Cardinals make statements on his behalf. He can’t exactly picket or pray in front of abortion clinics or the courthouse that just made homosexual marriage legal.

Plus, who are the EMHC’s to judge who is in a state of mortal sin or excommunicated? The person committing the sin should be, but we all know they won’t step up and take responsibility for their actions.

 

[LilyM]

While excommunication is the appropriate action here, or, at least, I think so, it would be hard to maintain that. With all of the Eucharist Ministers out there, would they know of everyone who shouldn’t receive? (and I do know that the appropriate title is: Extraordinary minister of the Eucharist.)

I think most people would recognise a lot of politicians, for example John Kerry, Ted Kennedy or Nancy Pelosi, no? Heck, not being American even I could recognise Kennedy and Kerry if they wandered into my local church!

 

[AHapka]

As an EMHC I’m not allowed to deny Holy Communion to ANYONE.

And that’s the way it should be.

I would imagine, at best, there could be some sort of protocol where I would refer someone to the priest, but I don’t know. The Bishops would have to settle that.

 

[nicolep]

As an EMHC I’m not allowed to deny Holy Communion to ANYONE.

And that’s the way it should be.

I would imagine, at best, there could be some sort of protocol where I would refer someone to the priest, but I don’t know. The Bishops would have to settle that.

I agree that it should be done this way. If EMHC’s are allowed to deny the Eucharist to one group of people, where would it stop? One of the EMHC’s at my parish could “know” that I’m in a state of mortal sin and deny me. However, there is never any way to know if I (or a politician) went to confession to resolve the issue.

Well, this is going off topic…sorry.

 

[LilyM]

I agree that it should be done this way. If EMHC’s are allowed to deny the Eucharist to one group of people, where would it stop? One of the EMHC’s at my parish could “know” that I’m in a state of mortal sin and deny me. However, there is never any way to know if I (or a politician) went to confession to resolve the issue.

Well, this is going off topic…sorry.

For someone like a pro-abortion politician it is not sufficient that they merely privately go to confession. Since the scandal is caused by their public stance and public voting record, they also have to publicly renounce that pro-abortion position.

 

[otjm]

For years traditional Catholics have been outraged at the public behavior and protestations of many of our so called “Catholic” politicians in their support of abortion rights and homosexual marriage in their speeches and their congressional voiting. In addition, many so called Lay Catholics also support these issues. Yet these so called Catholics continue to remain in the church and receive the Eucharist. Many strong bishops have refused the Eucharist to these people but it is not univesal. Why does not our strong Pope make a universal declaration of condemnation of these issues and the people-politicians who support them? This issue must be addressed internationally and in a strong Catholic manner and let the chips fall where they may.

The short answer is that the Pope does not micro-manage the Church. He is pope of the Universal Church; not the Roman Catholic Church, but the Universal Church - which includes the Eastern Rite churches that are in union with Rome. It is the Catholic Church; the Roman part is only the Roman Rite of the Catholic Church. There is what - something like a billion Catholics world wide? What makes anyone think that what Nancy Pelosi does is particluarly more important in terms of his response, than, say, what someone does in the political bureaucracy in Viet Nam or in China, or what goes on in India or Pakistan, or South Africa or Venezuela?

 

[toughcritic]

That’s pretty much the point I’m getting at. The Pope is darn busy. How could he specifically address the issues? Even when he was here, he made comments about these things. The Cardinals make statements on his behalf. He can’t exactly picket or pray in front of abortion clinics or the courthouse that just made homosexual marriage legal.

Plus, who are the EMHC’s to judge who is in a state of mortal sin or excommunicated? The person committing the sin should be, but we all know they won’t step up and take responsibility for their actions.

This is not the unviable situation that you make it seem. The media is only too willing to print every statement the Holy See makes. It would only take an official statement by the Pontiff to state once and unequivocally that those who engage in or directlly support or promote through their legislation or vote the act of abortion incur automatic excommunication. Those Catholics who continue to take Holy Eucharist are guilty of sacrilege. That, too, should be made known once and for all in the media. Those guilty celebrity politicians, known throughout the country, could easily be denied communion. Lesser known or totally unkown abortion supporters would know in their hearts that they were in serious sin and it would not then be up to the Eucharistic ministers to make that judgement. The very same statement could be made officially in the media regarding active homosexuals and supporters of gay marrieage. Once officially stated, unequivocally, the matter would be on their consciences and out of the hands of the EM’s. The problem is not the communication it is the universality of the statement and its’ consequences.

 

[otjm]

This is not the unviable situation that you make it seem. The media is only too willing to print every statement the Holy See makes. It would only take an official statement by the Pontiff to state once and unequivocally that those who engage in or directlly support or promote through their legislation or vote the act of abortion incur automatic excommunication. Those Catholics who continue to take Holy Eucharist are guilty of sacrilege. That, too, should be made known once and for all in the media. Those guilty celebrity politicians, known throughout the country, could easily be denied communion. Lesser known or totally unkown abortion supporters would know in their hearts that they were in serious sin and it would not then be up to the Eucharistic ministers to make that judgement. The very same statement could be made officially in the media regarding active homosexuals and supporters of gay marrieage. Once officially stated, unequivocally, the matter would be on their consciences and out of the hands of the EM’s. The problem is not the communication it is the universality of the statement and its’ consequences.

As I said, the short answer is that the Pope does not micro manage the Church. The Church itself has said, and said repeatedly, what it thinks of abortion. Both this pope and the last has said plenty. The press doesn’t really care, and neither do the politicians. You want an easy answer to a complex question. Canon law works just fine; it is up to the bishop to apply it. And while Archbishop Burke has come out forcefully and very articulately on the issue of Canon law, it is still within the judgemental call of each bishop as to how they handle the issue. You see it one way; others don’t. You are convinced your way is right, just and best; and you don’t have to live with the fallout that the press would give for interferring with politics. The world loves a martyr; the fact that the bishops do not choose to make martyrs out of the politicians who thumb their nose at the moral law may or may not be the better choice. It is truly questionable that it will effect the average Catholic in the pew - or the larger number of Catholics who don’t have their backside in the pew regularly - in a way that will strengthen the faith of either set. Those who already are convinced that the bishops are playing politics will not be strengthened; those who understand the moral issue and live their lives accordingly already have strong faith.

 

[nsper7]

For years traditional Catholics have been outraged at the public behavior and protestations of many of our so called “Catholic” politicians in their support of abortion rights and homosexual marriage in their speeches and their congressional voiting. In addition, many so called Lay Catholics also support these issues. Yet these so called Catholics continue to remain in the church and receive the Eucharist. Many strong bishops have refused the Eucharist to these people but it is not univesal. Why does not our strong Pope make a universal declaration of condemnation of these issues and the people-politicians who support them? This issue must be addressed internationally and in a strong Catholic manner and let the chips fall where they may.

Why don’t more individuals speak out? The laity are supposed to serve as ministers of the Gospel as well. If you know someone is taking Communion who holds views that are anathema to Roman Catholic doctrine or is in a state of mortal sin, then why don’t individuals either:

A) Confront the part in question (in love of course)
B) Go to the priest or deacon and speak up

 

[nicolep]

For someone like a pro-abortion politician it is not sufficient that they merely privately go to confession. Since the scandal is caused by their public stance and public voting record, they also have to publicly renounce that pro-abortion position.

And who’s to say that someone hasn’t? Just because every single EMHC hasn’t heard it, doesn’t mean it’s not true. My point is that no one but the bishop has the right.

 

[toughcritic]

Canon law works just fine; it is up to the bishop to apply it.

Therein is the problem. The bishops do not speak with one voice even though the Pope has articulated the subject emphatically. That is why the general public and the press is confused, especially luke warm Catholics. It is not a matter of seeing it “my way”. It is a matter of the Church Universal speaking with a common voice on moral issues. In that sense some of the bishops are no better than many of our politicians who are swayed by public opinion and how they are percieived.

 

[nicolep]

This is not the unviable situation that you make it seem. The media is only too willing to print every statement the Holy See makes. It would only take an official statement by the Pontiff to state once and unequivocally that those who engage in or directlly support or promote through their legislation or vote the act of abortion incur automatic excommunication. Those Catholics who continue to take Holy Eucharist are guilty of sacrilege. That, too, should be made known once and for all in the media. Those guilty celebrity politicians, known throughout the country, could easily be denied communion. Lesser known or totally unkown abortion supporters would know in their hearts that they were in serious sin and it would not then be up to the Eucharistic ministers to make that judgement. The very same statement could be made officially in the media regarding active homosexuals and supporters of gay marrieage. Once officially stated, unequivocally, the matter would be on their consciences and out of the hands of the EM’s. The problem is not the communication it is the universality of the statement and its’ consequences.

I believe it is unviable. That’s why I said it!

 

[nicolep]

Canon law works just fine; it is up to the bishop to apply it.

Therein is the problem. The bishops do not speak with one voice even though the Pope has articulated the subject emphatically. That is why the general public and the press is confused, especially luke warm Catholics. It is not a matter of seeing it “my way”. It is a matter of the Church Universal speaking with a common voice on moral issues. In that sense some of the bishops are no better than many of our politicians who are swayed by public opinion and how they are percieived.

I’m with you in theory. There just isn’t an answer that’s going to make us happy. I really don’t think the media cares a bit about the Church making a universal statement. Now, if a member of the Church messes up…watch out! It will be on the news for weeks. That’s the society we live in.

 

[otjm]

Why don’t more individuals speak out? The laity are supposed to serve as ministers of the Gospel as well. If you know someone is taking Communion who holds views that are anathema to Roman Catholic doctrine or is in a state of mortal sin, then why don’t individuals either:

A) Confront the part in question (in love of course)
B) Go to the priest or deacon and speak up

Canon law would forbid the priest to refuse Communion under the circumstances you note.

 

[nicolep]

Why don’t more individuals speak out? The laity are supposed to serve as ministers of the Gospel as well. If you know someone is taking Communion who holds views that are anathema to Roman Catholic doctrine or is in a state of mortal sin, then why don’t individuals either:

A) Confront the part in question (in love of course)
B) Go to the priest or deacon and speak up

I agree. While the priest couldn’t take any specific action, given enough comments from parishoners, he could take it to the bishop.