Why does the Latin Mass attract a niche market

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Francisco_Fernando

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Why does the Latin Mass only attract the most conservative members? Why don’t cafeteria Catholics go to these masses. Why does it seem that the Latin Mass only attracts these types of members. I’m not a perfect Catholic but I want to go to the Latin Mass but it’s miles away. Like it’s the people who don’t support abortion, contraception, and same-sex marriage, and actually go to church every Sunday who go to Latin Mass, and dress more modestly in real life.
 
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Sorry, I didn’t mean to be rude, but I got the information from Catholic Herald. And I was thinking ‘somewhat immodestly’ not hookers. I wish I can include a link on this post. I’ll quote it for you. “The authors found that 99 per cent of Catholics who attend the TLM fulfill their weekly obligation, compared to just 22 per cent of those who go to the NOM. Ninety-eight per cent also go to Confession at least once a year along with weekly Mass, compared to 25 per cent of NOM attendees.”
 
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I only ever go to the regular Mass and I find no such assumption evident in the OP. He deserves the benefit of the doubt. Chill.

The answer to the question is pretty straightforward imo: the Latin Mass was standard in the past and it is associated with the past, so it attracts people with traditional values. Also, the priests who say the Mass likewise tend to be very conservative and the priest has a significant effect on the culture of the parish.
 
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Well, if you have a more traditional view of what it means to be a really good Catholic, it isn’t surprising that you would be inspired by the liturgy that was offered back when things were the way you imagine they ought to be. Conversely, if you are quite aware of what could have been better in centuries past, I suppose that you would be less likely to find the liturgy of centuries past quite so inspiring.

For instance, the way people dress now would not have been considered at all modest whatsoever in 1890. The dress at one of today’s Masses in Latin would be considered shocking. The idea that there were women at the Mass who were working outside the home in professions such as being physicians or attorneys would be considered shocking. Certainly tolerating people who have a same-sex attraction would have been widely considered shocking. Openly choosing to have a child conceived out of wedlock and raising the child instead of going away somewhere secret to “take care of the pregnancy” in whatever secret way that might have been done would have been a scandal.

That’s a possibility that might explain some: that is, people have very different attitudes about how inspiring the past is and in particular how inspired the person is by past ideas of what makes an everyday saint. All times have their good points and bad points; it is a matter of emphasis.
 
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From the Catholic Herald Article
“In contrast, previous surveys suggest 89 per cent of NOM attendees approve of contraception, 51 per cent support abortion, and 67 per cent support same-sex marriage.”
“The survey also found that TLM attendees are far more sympathetic to Church teaching on moral issues. Just two per cent of Catholics who attend the TLM approve of contraception, one per cent approve of abortion, and two per cent support same-sex marriage.”
 
I know someone who is definitely a cafeteria Catholic, more liberal, and prefers latin mass–so it doesn’t “only attract the most conservative members.” Young people are attracted to it because it’s something different than you can find anywhere else. Conservative people are attracted due to the tradition. There is a variety like there is in every Church, people just seek it out because it’s not the status quo, and a lot of people find beauty in it. You’ll probably find more conservative people there, but not ONLY.
 
Let’s also remember that there are certain attitudes one would definitely know to keep under one’s hat if one preferred the Latin Mass for aesthetic reasons rather than a longing to have the past (or an imagined past, take you pick) restored.

There are people who believe they are more Catholic than the Pope (sometimes quite literally) in every group. The more strongly one is attached to some faction in the Church, the more I would expect that to be true, whether the faction is on the right, left, below or in the direction of outer space.
 
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My impression, and I don’t see anything wrong with this, is that the main reason for many people choosing the EF or other TLMs is aesthetics. I have read post after post on CAF about vestments, and Church architecture, and music and the correct performance of ritual argued with such vehemence that you would think a point of theology was being debated! And my impression is, given the total lack of comment on the merits of Latin as a language of communication, or any intrinsic beauty in its recitation, that many TLM adherents prefer not quite understanding more than the general gist of the words spoken, taking note of meaning only when they wish. In other words, the liturgy is an aid to personal contemplative prayer during Mass. I’m not saying this is wrong, just that this is how it appears to an outsider on CAF.

I think this aesthetic niche provides a recruiting ground for more conservative theological and social factions in the Church.
 
Well, yes, to reject everything that has taken place since Vatican II would also imply a likely preference for a Mass other than the Mass of Paul VI. Someone who would be horrified to go back in time to 1900 would not be as likely to be charmed by anything they experience as an historical re-enactment. The opposite is more likely in someone who could wish they actually lived 100 years or more ago.

I have to wonder if the main issue isn’t that the EF is a lot harder to get to than the OF. You would expect more mainstream attitudes at the more mainstream Mass.

You can’t tell in individual cases, though, excepting the likelihood of external things like dress tending to coincide.
 
Francisco_Fernando said:
Like it’s the people who don’t support abortion, contraception, and same-sex marriage, and actually go to church every Sunday who go to Latin Mass, and dress more modestly in real life.
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Well, people who make statements like this concerning those who go to the EF often imply that those who go to the OF support contraception and abortion and gay marriage, don’t go to Mass every Sunday and dress immodestly.

And that is for starters. I am not suggesting you say that, but the implication is there for anyone to see.

Second. the vast majority of people who go to Mass every week go to the OF. Cafeteria Catholics is a reference to those Catholics who disagree with various teaching of the Church, and are far more likely to be among the 70% of Catholics who do not attend Mass regularly. Out of the remaining 30%, the vast majority go to Mass weekly to the OF. a very small percentage of Catholics attend the EF.

Why do most attend the OF? I would suggest that the number one reason is that people prefer to attend Mass in their own language, no matte that that language is.
 
If that quote is accurate as to what the two authors said, they either were misquoted or they wrote extremely poorly. Their statistics don’t make sense.

According to CARA, which actually can conduct accurate and repeatable studies, it is not “22% of those who go to the (OF)” fulfill their weekly obligation.

It is actually 22+% of all Catholics attend Mass weekly. And that includes those who attend the EF. 78% of Catholics (which includes those who attend more than once a month but not every week, to those who attend Christmas and Easter, and to those who attend Christmas and Easter some times).

Either you misquoted, they mis-wrote, or an editor changed things. or they simply do not know what they are talking about.
 
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FrancisFan said:
The Tridentine Mass is very powerful. It changes your life. The reverence for the sacrament makes you feel the urgency of going to confession. Among the things you confess are missing Mass. so you stop missing Mass.
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The Ordinary For of the Mass is very powerful. It changes your life. The reverence for the
Sacrament makes you feel the urgency of going to Confession. And the things you confess are the sins you have committed.

My parish is the Ordinary Form. We also have had Perpetual Adoration 24/7/362 for over 25 years. Out of that parish has come 3 priests, 2 permanent deacons, 2 women who have made vows with two orders, and at least two other men who went to seminary but determined they did not have a vocation to the priesthood.

Your comments come across like “aren’t we more holy than they”; and I would suggest you read Luke 18: 9-14 several times.

You can set the Ordinary Form and the Extraordinary form side by side and the great majority of the EF is in the OF. The Eucharist is the Eucharist. We don’t need another flame war on the OF.
 
I agree you did not speak of the OF; but your comment about bishops appears sufficient.
 
Forgive me, but you take a very very generalised view on Catholicism on this forum. People who attend the Extraordinary Form do not do so just because of aesthetics (vestments, music etc) , although it plays a part.
FiveLinden said:
And my impression is, given the total lack of comment on the merits of Latin as a language of communication, or any intrinsic beauty in its recitation, that many TLM adherents prefer not quite understanding more than the general gist of the words spoken
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I study Latin, and it is a beautiful language. It is a language with merits especially around communication. Remember that Latin was intended, and still is to some extent, to be used as a universal ecclesiastical language so that no matter where you are in the world, you can still understand what is going on at Mass.

I do not attend the EF, but I still think your view is very oversimplified and generalised.
 
Francisco_Fernando said:
Why does the Latin Mass only attract the most conservative members? Why don’t cafeteria Catholics go to these masses.
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How do you know the views of everyone at Latin Mass? Unless you have interviewed everyone there, you don’t know all their views on every Catholic teaching. I’ve seen people at local Latin Masses who didn’t visibly look or dress like your standard “traditionalist” and I’m willing to bet that not every person there has all conservative views.
 
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FiveLinden said:
My impression, and I don’t see anything wrong with this, is that the main reason for many people choosing the EF or other TLMs is aesthetics.
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This is a bit of an oversimplification. There are a large number of reasons why people might choose a TLM.
Some people might like the aesthetics - “smells and bells”, chant rather than guitars, and so on.

Other people like the emphasis on the priest saying the Mass rather than those in attendance all doing things as a “community”. Still others like the historic aspect - the idea that they’re worshipping as their grandma worshipped, or in a way that seems more Catholic and less Protestant. And still others like the use of Latin as a universal Church language. This is not about aesthetics, it’s about spirituality, Catholic identity, and what being a Catholic means to someone. It’s fairly deep stuff because those who take the time and trouble to locate a TLM and attend it, rather than just keep going to the very available OFs, are usually pretty deeply involved with their Catholicism.
 
This is the point I was trying to get at with regards to FiveLinden’s post, but you’ve explained it much better than me!
 
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