Why Does the Left Hate the Pope?

[Arizona_Mike]

This thread is quite uncharitable and in horrid taste. Stop trying to pin the Church onto the “right-wing” political ideology. She defies politics.

Leftists aren’t stupid, and we don’t hate the truth.

It is not uncharitable, and I did not say Leftists are stupid, nor did I say they hate the truth. Clearly, many on the political Left hate the Pope (as do many on the far Right, for different reasons.) If you’d like, I can post links to numerous articles and editorials from those on the left that attack the Pope for his teachings. That is not to say all political liberals hate the Pope, as clearly, Catholics come from all parts of the political spectrum. Yet the enmity the far Left feels for the Pope and his teachings is extreme.

Please read the original post. The point of the post is to question why the Dalai Lama is considered such a charismatic and admirable figure while the Pope is regularly mocked and denounced by political “progressives” for his moral stance, while the Dalai Lama, who holds similar views, is lauded.

 

[Dale_M]

I have to admit that I gave the wrong title to this thread, as it should more properly be titled, “Why DOESN’T the Left hate the Dalai Lama,” .

The Dalai Lama has little influence in the West. He is simply seen as a nice guy who is the leader of an oppressed people, many of whom are living in exile since their homeland is occupied by a foreign power. The exotic image of Tibet may also be a factor.

The Pope, on the other hand, has quite a bit of influence in the West. He is leader of a sovereign country And he is a lightning rod for the anger of persons who are unhappy (for various reasons) with the Catholic Church.

The opinions and actions of the Dalai Lama will not affect life in the US or other Western countries. The same can not be said for the actions and opinions of the Pope. The Dalai Lama poses no real challenge. The Pope does.

 

[dimentichisimai]

I think what you’re describing is a similar phenomenon to people that tout obnoxious views of what it means to be Christian (or even a Catholic Christian) based on a false personification of Christ. People that don’t believe in Hell, for example, even though Christ Himself talked about it numerous times throughout the Gospel.

I think the same thing happens with people who look to Eastern religions, pick out what they find most appealing, and then ignore the rest of it. The Pope represents a force vehemently opposed to such “cafeteria-ism.” He stands for universal truths.

 

[epan]

Consider: He is the leader of a millennia-old religious movement, and the leader of a small nation as well as the spiritual leader of millions, and many more look to him for his views on social issues, politics, and the world at large.

While the Left Wing and Progressive movement in America favor some of his views - the need for social justice for the destitute, the call to assist the dispossessed and refugees and to end racial and ethnic hatred - they will never come to terms with many of his most deeply-held beliefs and pronouncements.

Both he and his predecessors stand firm in their resistance to Communism as demeaning to the dignity of the human spirit. In response, the leaders of the Communis Chinese state have imprisoned his priests and demand that only they can decide who will be the priests allowed to speak or officiate at religious services in an “official” state church. His predecessors have been accused of collaboration with the Nazi regime during WWII.

He calls his priests, all of whom are male, to a life of celibacy. There is a vibrant community of women in the religious orders which look to him for leadership and doctrine, yet there are no women in the upper ranks of his religious hierarchy.

He speaks out against homosexuality as contrary to the laws of nature (writing in his 1996 book “Beyond Dogma” that “A sexual act is deemed proper when the couples use the organs intended for sexual intercourse and nothing else…”), even while demanding compassion for those who practice it and those who suffer from the ravages of HIV/AIDS.

He even condemns sexual acts by heterosexuals that are non-generative (“…proscriptions ban homosexual activity and heterosexual sex through orifices other than the vagina, including masturbation or other sexual activity with the hand…” “A gay couple came to see me, seeking my support and blessing. I had to explain our teachings. Another lady introduced another woman as her wife - astonishing.” "A …friend asked me what harm could there be between consenting adults having oral sex, if they enjoyed it… But the purpose of sex is reproduction…”)

He argues that abortion is not a lifestyle choice for women, but an act of violence and the taking of a human life, which he believes begins prior to birth. "I see women who have had abortions because they thought a child would ruin their lives. A baby seemed unbearable - yet now they are older, they are unable to conceive. I feel so sorry for them.”

Is it any wonder that those who style themselves “Progressives” want nothing to do with the man?

Now…

I have to admit that I gave the wrong title to this thread, as it should more properly be titled, “Why DOESN’T the Left hate the Dalai Lama,” as that is who I just described above, and the Dalai Lama is the man who gave the direct quotes above.

While I don’t agree with his religion or theology, the Dalai Lama is obviously a thoughtful, kind, intelligent, and courageous man. Aside from the issues of religious doctrine, he and Pope Benedict XVI have more in common on the social issues described above than they differ. The Dalai Lama shows more flexibility than the Pope on the issue of abortion, and has allowed that it should be permitted in some cases, such as birth deformities. He has also “evolved” a bit on the issue of homosexuality, and has said the traditional Buddhist proscriptions against it only apply to other Buddhists.

Yet among the political left and the progressives, an audience with the Dalai Lama would be more desired than even a cocktail party with President Obama (or maybe even Bono). He is wildly popular in Hollywood and academic circles, the same people which look on our Pope with such disdain.

Why? Because one is a man of the West and the other a man of the East, and thus seen as more “exotic” and trendier?

Discuss.

Do you think it is hatred?

I think it is because he is old school, that he is dismissed as irrelevant. His points are good, but everyone already knows about them. He is not saying anything new. With the stuff of current interest, his views are outdated. I think he is seen as an old man with old man’s outdated opinions, which are not very relevant to current issues.

Anyone who hates him has a problem. He was chosen by a particular church as their leader. I don’t see why anyone would have problem with that.

Obviously, the reverence which devoted Catholics may afford him, is not shared by the rest of the world. But he deserves respect and to be listened to, for his noble character, his intelligence, his devotion, and his position.

My own opinion of him, as a non Catholic, is that he is a brilliant guy, and a great leader. There are many areas that I agree with him, and some that I disagree. But I don’t pay a lot of attention to him. I am comfortable living in a world where I agree with some people, and disagree with others. I have no animosity toward anyone who is sincere in their beliefs, just because we disagree.

I hope this is not construed as disrespectful. I am just trying to answer the question honestly, and I mean no disrespect.

 

[mark_a]

Why Does the Left Hate the Pope?

Easy. He is the most influential officer in the world.

 

[Eagelswings]

This thread is quite uncharitable and in horrid taste. Stop trying to pin the Church onto the “right-wing” political ideology. She defies politics.

Leftists aren’t stupid, and we don’t hate the truth.

I didn’t say Leftist are stupid. I said they were “crazies” and “wolves in sheep’s clothing” and they were “in left field” which means to be not with the program. Let’s face it, most of the catholics on the left support gay marriage and abortion and see nothing wrong with it. Why they still want to call themselves “Catholic” is beyond me other than the reason being for popularity. They think themselves as devoted catholics but oppose the vicar of Christ. I haven’t seen one Leftist who is a true catholic.

By the way, Arizona Mike did not say they hate the truth. I did. Take that up with me.

 

[tabycat]

This thread is quite uncharitable and in horrid taste. Stop trying to pin the Church onto the “right-wing” political ideology. She defies politics.

Leftists aren’t stupid, and we don’t hate the truth./QUOTE

It didn.t hit me as being ‘uncharitable’; maybe not in the best of taste, IMO, not in ‘horrid taste’. Some ‘leftist’, like some ‘righist’, are not very brightist.

I agree with you that the Chruch should not pinned either ‘right-wing’ or ‘left-wing’ political ideology.

 

[BobCatholic]

To the left, the worst sin in the world is not genocide, war, or environmental destruction.

To the left, the worst sin in the world is to disagree with a leftist.

Disagree with a leftist and the leftist explodes in a rage that makes one think they’re in danger of being sent to the hospital by the leftist.

So the left hates the Pope because he disagrees with them.

 

[PeterJohn]

One word can answer this question.
Misunderstandings

 

[Brofessor]

I didn’t say Leftist are stupid. I said they were “crazies” and “wolves in sheep’s clothing” and they were “in left field” which means to be not with the program. Let’s face it, most of the catholics on the left support gay marriage and abortion and see nothing wrong with it. Why they still want to call themselves “Catholic” is beyond me other than the reason being for popularity. They think themselves as devoted catholics but oppose the vicar of Christ. I haven’t seen one Leftist who is a true catholic.

By the way, Arizona Mike did not say they hate the truth. I did. Take that up with me.

Fine, I will.

Friend, I do not see how a practicing Catholic could possibly support all of the policies espoused by the American left–nor, however, could I see how one could support those espoused by the right. Are you really all right with destroying the environment? In ignoring the reality of global warming? Of maintaining the state-sponsored murder euphemized “capital punishment”? Of denying society’s neediest members healthcare, and denying the right of all young people to a free public education? American politics are filled with scum on the left and the right. I for one shall strive to live out all of the church’s teachings; not only those on abortion and gay marriage, but also those less popular with the Right, like healthcare and the environment. For this reason I intend to vote neither “right” nor “left”. even if it means writing my own name on the ballot. Perhaps I’m caricaturing rightists here, but not nearly to the extent that you’ve done to our friends on the other side of the aisle. Perhaps you may reconsider calling these people “crazies”, since as Catholics it’s our job to give people the benefit of the doubt.

It may be that these people call themselves “Catholic” because they are. If you’re baptized validly, you will never be “not Catholic”. The left “hates the truth”? Really? To reduce a nuanced issue to black and white, lies and truth, us and them, as you’ve done, is a sign of not knowing much about the issue in the first place.

To the left, the worst sin in the world is not genocide, war, or environmental destruction.

To the left, the worst sin in the world is to disagree with a leftist.

Disagree with a leftist and the leftist explodes in a rage that makes one think they’re in danger of being sent to the hospital by the leftist.

So the left hates the Pope because he disagrees with them.

I think most leftists would disagree, and that leftists regularly have cordial friendships with rightists. See my above comment about caricaturing.

 

[BobCatholic]

I think most leftists would disagree, and that leftists regularly have cordial friendships with rightists. See my above comment about caricaturing.

It was not a caricature, it was my experience. Time after time after time after…well, I got the hint and generally avoid discussing politics or religion except with people who I can trust.

 

[Midwest88]

As an ex-lefty who runs with the secular crowd I will say this:

Most of my friends who identify as liberals/progressives/lefty do not like people telling them what to do. Personal, deep insecurity runs amok. Anything spiritual is fodder to them and relativism and New Age thinking are, more or less, dominant. If they are spiritual, Buddhism will be on top of the list of “potential religions.” Catholicism is practically seen as a cult whose members cannot think for themselves. Right and wrong? All man made and the only authority wise enough to decide is themselves. The Pope is just some pasty old white dude with no life to them.

 

[meltzerboy]

As an ex-lefty who runs with the secular crowd I will say this:

Most of my friends who identify as liberals/progressives/lefty do not like people telling them what to do. Personal, deep insecurity runs amok. Anything spiritual is fodder to them and relativism and New Age thinking are, more or less, dominant. If they are spiritual, Buddhism will be on top of the list of “potential religions.” Catholicism is practically seen as a cult whose members cannot think for themselves. Right and wrong? All man made and the only authority wise enough to decide is themselves. The Pope is just some pasty old white dude with no life to them.

So what you’re saying is that, in your experience, liberal = personal insecurity +
lack of spirituality except New Age and possibly Buddhism + moral relativism + Catholicism viewed as a cult. My experience as a liberal for many years with many liberal friends does not fit this characterization at all. No liberal I know is into New Age spirituality or Buddhism; moral relativism only to a certain degree based on an understanding of cultural and religious differences; Catholicism is definitely NOT seen as a cult; and personal insecurity is present no more or less than in everyone else.

 

[Midwest88]

So what you’re saying is that, in your experience, liberal = personal insecurity +
lack of spirituality except New Age and possibly Buddhism + moral relativism + Catholicism viewed as a cult. My experience as a liberal for many years with many liberal friends does not fit this characterization at all. No liberal I know is into New Age spirituality or Buddhism; moral relativism only to a certain degree based on an understanding of cultural and religious differences;

Yes. And might I add arrogant, too. But then again I bet you don’t know anyone with that characterization at all.

and personal insecurity is present no more or less than in everyone else.

So what. Such a characteristic present in everyone doesn’t make one group immune from another pointing it out.

 

[meltzerboy]

And I quote myself:

So what

Isn’t that what I said? I’m merely pointing out that we have different experiences regarding liberal perspectives. You said “Personal deep insecurity runs amok” in liberals, implicitly meaning it does not in conservatives. I’m pointing out that I don’t believe liberals are particularly more or less insecure than non-liberals. We disagree based on our experiences, that’s all.

 

[Midwest88]

Isn’t that what I said? I’m merely pointing out that we have different experiences regarding liberal perspectives.

Yes, very good, and I know that such liberals exist. I edited my post by the way.

 

[Midwest88]

For some reason I’m not surprised you’ve reacted this way.

You said “Personal deep insecurity runs amok” in liberals, implicitly meaning it does not in conservatives.

Good grief. I said no such thing. Most does not mean all and my honest hyperbole goes back to my liberal/progressive/lefty friends.

 

[Seeker1961]

So what you’re saying is that, in your experience, liberal = personal insecurity +
lack of spirituality except New Age and possibly Buddhism + moral relativism + Catholicism viewed as a cult. My experience as a liberal for many years with many liberal friends does not fit this characterization at all. No liberal I know is into New Age spirituality or Buddhism; moral relativism only to a certain degree based on an understanding of cultural and religious differences; Catholicism is definitely NOT seen as a cult; and personal insecurity is present no more or less than in everyone else.

My experience is similar to yours. I know many people who consider themselves liberal who are none of the things described on this thread.

As for my own leanings-I’m Catholic and the last time I checked I did not get a membership card for any political party at my baptism. I do not like the tendency on this forum and in other place to create a link between Catholicism and ANY political party. Politics is about power for man, not service of God.

 

[Eagelswings]

Fine, I will.

Friend, I do not see how a practicing Catholic could possibly support all of the policies espoused by the American left–nor, however, could I see how one could support those espoused by the right. Are you really all right with destroying the environment? In ignoring the reality of global warming? Of maintaining the state-sponsored murder euphemized “capital punishment”? Of denying society’s neediest members healthcare, and denying the right of all young people to a free public education? American politics are filled with scum on the left and the right. I for one shall strive to live out all of the church’s teachings; not only those on abortion and gay marriage, but also those less popular with the Right, like healthcare and the environment. For this reason I intend to vote neither “right” nor “left”. even if it means writing my own name on the ballot. Perhaps I’m caricaturing rightists here, but not nearly to the extent that you’ve done to our friends on the other side of the aisle. Perhaps you may reconsider calling these people “crazies”, since as Catholics it’s our job to give people the benefit of the doubt.

It may be that these people call themselves “Catholic” because they are. If you’re baptized validly, you will never be “not Catholic”. The left “hates the truth”? Really? To reduce a nuanced issue to black and white, lies and truth, us and them, as you’ve done, is a sign of not knowing much about the issue in the first place.

I think most leftists would disagree, and that leftists regularly have cordial friendships with rightists. See my above comment about caricaturing.

Look, I was out of line and I apologize for what I said.

However, there are a lot of people on the left who do oppose the pope. I’m not on the side of either the right or the left. I only oppose the left because of how they oppose the church. There are people on the right who support abortion and gay marriage as well.

What I am trying to say is, most of the people on the left oppose the Church and do indeed mislead Catholics into voting for them. Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi and the late Ted Kennedy are and were catholics but view(ed) nothing of their faith except as a means of conning young catholics and christians into voting for them when they clearly are against both God and Church.

Another thing I don’t understand is how Catholics can feel alright with voting for a man who is clearly radically pro-abortion and even mocked the Bible despite calling himself a “christian”. We all knew that he was going to force Catholic institutions to support his pro-abortion views but they all voted for him anyway.

Again, I apologize for what I said. I was just in a bad mood and let my anger get to me.

 

[Brofessor]

Look, I was out of line and I apologize for what I said.

However, there are a lot of people on the left who do oppose the pope. I’m not on the side of either the right or the left. I only oppose the left because of how they oppose the church. There are people on the right who support abortion and gay marriage as well.

What I am trying to say is, most of the people on the left oppose the Church and do indeed mislead Catholics into voting for them. Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi and the late Ted Kennedy are and were catholics but view(ed) nothing of their faith except as a means of conning young catholics and christians into voting for them when they clearly are against both God and Church.

Another thing I don’t understand is how Catholics can feel alright with voting for a man who is clearly radically pro-abortion and even mocked the Bible despite calling himself a “christian”. We all knew that he was going to force Catholic institutions to support his pro-abortion views but they all voted for him anyway.

Again, I apologize for what I said. I was just in a bad mood and let my anger get to me.

No problem! Everyone gets upset sometimes. I think you and I are essentially making the same point, actually. I very much agree with you in that many left-wing Catholic politicians, most visibly Biden, Pelosi and Kennedy, do a pretty bad job of living their faith. On the other hand, so do, say, Gingrich and Santorum. It’s such a shame to see. Let’s pray for a change of heart in our Catholic politicians, and for a viable candidate to emerge who respects all church teaching, both from human dignity and social justice perspectives.