Why does the Vatican do this?

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BVMFatima

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Maybe because the Pope genuinely considers the official title of the Church to be Roman Catholic, I don’t know. I am not sure it can be argued to be as incorrect as, say, to refer to the entire Church as the Latin Catholic Church. That would be blatantly wrong, but Roman I am not sure, since there is no sui iuris “Roman Church.”
 
YoungTradCath said:
Maybe because the Pope genuinely considers the official title of the Church to be Roman Catholic, I don’t know. I am not sure it can be argued to be as incorrect as, say, to refer to the entire Church as the Latin Catholic Church. That would be blatantly wrong, but Roman I am not sure, since there is no sui iuris “Roman Church.”
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Roman Church and Latin Church are equal as the Catholic encyclopedia states on the term Latin Church.

The introduction to the Code of Canon law of the Latin Church mentions a " church of the Roman Rite ".

So this really made me think, why would the East be left out?
 
BVMFatima said:
Roman Church and Latin Church are equal as the Catholic encyclopedia states on the term Latin Church.

The introduction to the Code of Canon law of the Latin Church mentions a " church of the Roman Rite ".

So this really made me think, why would the East be left out?
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No idea. Perhaps some Numerary Protonotaries Apostolic who are not well educated in things Eastern.
 
BVMFatima said:
There are lots of documents on the Vatican website that identify the whole Church Roman Catholic. The problem with this is there are 22 Eastern Catholic Churches, and I was wondering why would the Vatican leave them out?

Here are my sources below

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/Bapstist%20alliance/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_19880723_baptist-convers_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/2001/november/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_20011124_anglican-catholic_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/1998/august/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_19980828_catolicos-anglicanos_en.html

vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/2007/documents/ns_lit_doc_20071124_titoli_en.html

God Bless!
BVMFatima
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Read the document at the link below. It answers a few very important questions:
  1. Did the Second Vatican Council change the Catholic doctrine on the Church?
  2. What is the meaning of the affirmation that the Church of Christ subsists in the Catholic Church?
  3. Why was the expression “subsists in” adopted instead of the simple word “is”?
  4. Why does the Second Vatican Council use the term “Church” in reference to the oriental Churches separated from full communion with the Catholic Church?
  5. Why do the texts of the Council and those of the Magisterium since the Council not use the title of “Church” with regard to those Christian Communities born out of the Reformation of the sixteenth century?
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070629_responsa-quaestiones_en.html
 
Vico, I think you are confused. We are not discussing what is a Church or anything about Vatican II, we are discussing why Vatican documents use the phrase “Roman Catholic Church” to refer to the entire Catholic Church.
 
I thought the entire church was Roman Catholic because it was under Rome, but then Roman Catholic also referred to Roman rite Catholic. 🤷
 
I would actually appreciate some clarification on this being Hellenic Byzantine. Where is a Canon lawyer or Vatican spokesperson when you need one.
 
I think that at times the Church does use the term Roman Catholic Church simply to prevent confusion when dealing with non-Catholic bodies. To much of the world we are the Roman Catholic Church. In the internal life of the Church, I rarely see this term used…and I think outside of the few documents referenced above (which really are very few when one considers the THOUSANDS of official Church documents floating around) you will be hard pressed to find the Church regularly using this name to identify herself. More often than not the Church simply identifies herself as the Catholic Church - plain and simple. Latin Church is the proper canonical term for the Western Church sui iuris and Roman Church, while it can at times refer to the Latin Church, more frequently refers to the Diocese of Rome itself. To my mind, the Roman Catholic Church should be the Diocese of Rome - that is, the Catholic Church in Rome…but alas that would lead to even more confusion.
 
YoungTradCath said:
Vico, I think you are confused. We are not discussing what is a Church or anything about Vatican II, we are discussing why Vatican documents use the phrase “Roman Catholic Church” to refer to the entire Catholic Church.
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It has become a common English definition for the Catholic religious denomination, although not the official name of the Catholic Church. Sometimes is will be used in communications with Anglicans that historically do not accept the name Catholic (read the linked article on that topic.)

Catholic Encyclopedia: “Roman Catholic. A qualification of the name Catholic commonly used in English-speaking countries by those unwilling to recognize the claims of the One True Church.”

Thurston, H. (1912). Roman Catholic. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. Retrieved February 3, 2013 from New Advent: newadvent.org/cathen/13121a.htm

Catholic Church is used in important documents of the Church and in teaching. We know the following is true.

The Church of Christ is concretely found on this earth in the Catholic Church and is present and operative in the churches and ecclesial Communities not yet fully in communion with the Catholic Church. Therefore the eastern Catholic churches (sui iuris) and the Latin Church are all the Catholic Church.
  1. The Roman Curia serves the universal Catholic Church, and includes diacastries specific to the Latin Church and some specific to the eastern Catholic churches.
 
BVMFatima said:
There are lots of documents on the Vatican website that identify the whole Church Roman Catholic. The problem with this is there are 22 Eastern Catholic Churches, and I was wondering why would the Vatican leave them out?

Here are my sources below

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/Bapstist%20alliance/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_19880723_baptist-convers_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/2001/november/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_20011124_anglican-catholic_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/1998/august/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_19980828_catolicos-anglicanos_en.html

vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/2007/documents/ns_lit_doc_20071124_titoli_en.html

God Bless!
BVMFatima
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The first three documents refer to Catholic-Protestant relations. Protestantism broke from the Roman Catholic Church so it makes sense to so identify the Church. The fourth document refers to Roman rite Catholic Cardinals.
 
PaulfromIowa said:
The first three documents refer to Catholic-Protestant relations. Protestantism broke from the Roman Catholic Church so it makes sense to so identify the Church. The fourth document refers to Roman rite Catholic Cardinals.
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That kind of makes sense.
 
vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/speeches/1965/documents/hf_p-vi_spe_19651207_common-declaration_en.html
  1. Pope Paul VI and Patriarch Athenagoras I with his synod realize that this gesture of justice and mutual pardon is not sufficient to end both old and more recent differences between the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church.Through the action of the Holy Spirit those differences will be overcome through cleansing of hearts, through regret for historical wrongs, and through an efficacious determination to arrive at a common understanding and expression of the faith of the Apostles and its demands.They hope, nevertheless, that this act will be pleasing to God, who is prompt to pardon us when we pardon each other. They hope that the whole Christian world, especially the entire Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church will appreciate this gesture as an expression of a sincere desire shared in common for reconciliation, and as an invitation to follow out in a spirit of trust, esteem and mutual charity the dialogue which, with Gods help, will lead to living together again, for the greater good of souls and the coming of the kingdom of God, in that full communion of faith, fraternal accord and sacramental life which existed among them during the first thousand years of the life of the Church.
 
I’m coming to the conclusion that the Vatican calls the Church the Roman Catholic Church because of the fact that 98% is Roman, which is obviously the majority!

God Bless,
BVMFatima
 
BVMFatima said:
I’m coming to the conclusion that the Vatican calls the Church the Roman Catholic Church because of the fact that 98% is Roman, which is obviously the majority!

God Bless,
BVMFatima
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Notice the term Roman Cathoic is used as a denomination in dealing with some other Christian churches such as the Anglican and Baptist. These Christian ecclessial communities may not regard the Catholic Church as that, but as Roman Catholic.

In the consistory 2007 posting has “Roman Catholic”, however that is not used in the Italian. One does not find that term in the Canon Law or Pastor Bonus. For example, from Pastor Bonus:Art. 1 — The Roman Curia is the complex of dicasteries and institutes which help the Roman Pontiff in the exercise of his supreme pastoral office for the good and service of the whole Church and of the particular Churches. It thus strengthens the unity of the faith and the communion of the people of God and promotes the mission proper to the Church in the world.
From Latin Canon Law CIC:Can. 1 The canons of this Code regard only the Latin Church.
From CCEO:Can. 1 The canons of this Code affect all and solely the Eastern Catholic Churches, unless, with regard to relations with the Latin Church, it is expressly stated otherwise.

Catholic Encyclopedia:S.R.E. — Sancta Romana Ecclesia, Sanctae Romanae Ecclesia (“Most Holy Roman Church”; or, “of the Most Holy Roman Church”)
Latin CIC:Can. 349 — S. R. E. Cardinales peculiare Collegium constituunt, cui competit ut electioni Romani Pontificis provideat ad normam iuris peculiaris; Cardinales item Romano Pontifici adsunt sive collegialiter agendo, cum ad quaestiones maioris momenti tractandas in unum convocantur, sive ut singuli, scilicet variis officiis, quibus funguntur, eidem Romano Pontifici praestando in cura praesertim cotidiana universae Ecclesiae.

Can. 349 The cardinals of the Holy Roman Church constitute a special college which provides for the election of the Roman Pontiff according to the norm of special law. The cardinals assist the Roman Pontiff either collegially when they are convoked to deal with questions of major importance, or individually when they help the Roman Pontiff through the various offices they perform, especially in the daily care of the universal Church.
 
Vico said:
Notice the term Roman Cathoic is used as a denomination in dealing with some other Christian churches such as the Anglican and Baptist. These Christian ecclessial communities may not regard the Catholic Church as that, but as Roman Catholic.

In the consistory 2007 posting has “Roman Catholic”, however that is not used in the Italian. One does not find that term in the Canon Law or Pastor Bonus. For example, from Pastor Bonus:

Art. 1 — The Roman Curia is the complex of dicasteries and institutes which help the Roman Pontiff in the exercise of his supreme pastoral office for the good and service of the whole Church and of the particular Churches. It thus strengthens the unity of the faith and the communion of the people of God and promotes the mission proper to the Church in the world.
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would it be incorrect to identify myself Roman rite then?
 
BVMFatima said:
would it be incorrect to identify myself Roman rite then?
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Rite is the manner of religious observance. Depending on the location a Catholic enrolled in the Latin Church could observe the Roman Rite, the Ambrosian Rite, the Mozarabic Rite, or Anglican Use.

You could say you observe the Roman Rite, as I can say I observe the Byzantine Rite or Byzantine-Ruthenian Rite.

*Catholic Encylopedia:

“Ritus* in classical Latin in means primarily, the form and manner of any religious observance…”

Modern Catholic Dictionary gives some history:

ROMAN CATHOLICISM. The faith, worship, and practice of all Christians in communion with the Bishop of Rome, whom they acknowledge as the Vicar of Christ and the visible head of the Church founded by Christ. The terms “Roman Church” and “Roman Catholic Church” date from at least the early Middle Ages, but the stress on these terms became prominent after the Protestant Reformation. The reason was to emphasize the distinctive quality of being not only a Christian, because baptized, but of being a Catholic, because in communion with the Pope.
 
So when a Church calls itself Roman Catholic, its just saying its in communion with Rome? I always thought it meant it was a Roman rite parish.
 
BVMFatima said:
So when a Church calls itself Roman Catholic, its just saying its in communion with Rome? I always thought it meant it was a Roman rite parish.
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Roman Catholic has multiple meanings.

The Catholic ritual churches are all in full communion with the Bishop of Rome. They do not necessarily refer to themselves as Roman Catholic, since they have different traditions.
 
Vico said:
Roman Catholic has multiple meanings.

The Catholic ritual churches are all in full communion with the Bishop of Rome. They do not necessarily refer to themselves as Roman Catholic, since they have different traditions.
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There are Maronites up here in Connecticut that identify themselves Roman Catholic which I find kind of strange.
 
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