Why Doesn't God Intervene to Stop Evil?

[ready]

Where is there any Biblical evidence for this? Jesus Christ says that the majority of the human race goes to hell (Mt. 7:13-14) - how is that the “greater good”? Isn’t there pointless suffering and evil in the world?

Though the majority of souls do go to hell, this is no sound refutation to what I have said. What I said comes from Tradition (the Church Father St. Augustine, et al) , and it is true. Remember, The Scriptures and Tradition are equally important, you can’t go by one without the other. So long as the elect get saved (few in number as they may be compared to all the people who have ever existed) and so long as the reprobates get punished for their mocking of God–all is absolutely well and good, fair and right, the way things are supposed to be and the way God wants them. And this is just what happens in the end, so the greatest good does get accomplished. If you don’t agree, then we’ll just have to agree to disagree, for I can only lead a horse to water and can’t force him to drink. God bless you.

 

[ynotzap]

Where is there any Biblical evidence for this? Jesus Christ says that the majority of the human race goes to hell (Mt. 7:13-14) - how is that the “greater good”? Isn’t there pointless suffering and evil in the world?

Rom: 5:20-2l The law entered in so that transgression might increase but, where sin increased: grace overflowed all the more, 2l- so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through justification for eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

St. Augustine led a very sinful life even had a child outside of marriage. His mother prayed for 28-32 years for his conversion. When he was converted he lead many into the Faith. This happens to some of the worse sinners in the wold, they are converted, and then do many good works, and lead people to Christ. God draws good from evil by His grace. All enter the world in sin, and many are converted Look at the conversion of St. Paul who condoned the killing of St.Steven, and now I am referring to him in the bible!

 

[ynotzap]

Where is there any Biblical evidence for this? Jesus Christ says that the majority of the human race goes to hell (Mt. 7:13-14) - how is that the “greater good”? Isn’t there pointless suffering and evil in the world?

This is an answer that belongs in the scripture forum, all I can say is refer to Rom; 7; l9-2l there is actually more to be added, I answered but apparently it is not acceptable in this forum. Sorry. I might add philosophically, that since evil is considered the absence of the good, then the good must exist before it’s absence. To be a good is to have being, and if evil is the absence of good, evil is non-being. Since God is the creator of the good, being He can certainly give the absence of the good, being. Evil is never total absence Evil is concerned with morals, human behavior contrary to the moral law, so God by grace can change that moral behavior in man. If it wasn’t for the existence of good, there would be no evil. Evil is not an essence The bible reference should clear it up.

 

[DaveBj]

Either there is no God or it is our duty. Regardless I would say that is our duty.

We have a winner.

If I may interpose an analogy, in the county where I live the authority for “stopping evil” has been delegated to our elected sheriff. He and his deputies are responsible for that job, and how well they do their job impacts on how much evil is extant in our county.

According to the first two chapters of Genesis, the authority (“dominion”) over this physical world was placed in the hands of human beings. The amount of evil in our world is directly dependent on our efficiency in stopping it.

 

[Achilles6129]

What about natural evil, such as tsunamis, flu plagues, etc.?

 

[JackVk]

Either there is no God or it is our duty. Regardless I would say that is our duty.

Agreed. God doesn’t catch us fish, He teaches us how to fish.

Here’s an analogy: Let’s say tomorrow North Korea invades the West Coast of the United States. The President then has all the US armed forces converge there to head off the invasion. Does the fact that the president is not on the front lines, slugging it out with the enemy, mean he doesn’t care?

The same goes for God. We are His hands and feet in this world.

What about natural evil, such as tsunamis, flu plagues, etc.?

First, the highest good is Himself, not this world. It’s not necessarily God’s job to make our lives on Earth perfect.

Second, God possibly allows it so humans can have an opportunity to be heroic, selfless, and virtuous. Again, the “teach a man to fish” saying.

 

[ynotzap]

What about natural evil, such as tsunamis, flu plagues, etc.?

God’s providence controls, and causes what we call natural disasters, just as He allows mankind to perform actions which are considered moral evil. God can do not evil, for God is total Good, and Pure Being. His permissive will allows moral evil. Things can not commit evil. Only those that can go against the moral good, commit evil. These are humans who possess intelligence, and free will. All the human endeavors can not abolish evil, since mankind suffers from a condition called “sin” That is why we have a redeemer in Jesus Christ, God-man. We humans create our own redeemers, humanism, yes we can stem human evil for a while by fighting against it, but we can not eradicate it. It takes the grace of God to defeat it Every generation has this condition, evil, and a proclivity to evil The perpetuation of wars is a good example, and the existence of crime. There is also an evil enemy to contend with, and no human power can defeat him.

 

[Achilles6129]

Second, God possibly allows it so humans can have an opportunity to be heroic, selfless, and virtuous. Again, the “teach a man to fish” saying.

Wouldn’t it be possible for humans to have an opportunity to be heroic and so forth without Ebola, the bubonic plague, smallpox, the flu, etc.?

 

[Achilles6129]

God’s providence controls, and causes what we call natural disasters, just as He allows mankind to perform actions which are considered moral evil.

I would agree. So what’s the explanation for natural disasters, plagues, and so on? Why does God allow these things to happen, and why do they happen to the people that they do?

 

[ynotzap]

I would agree. So what’s the explanation for natural disasters, plagues, and so on? Why does God allow these things to happen, and why do they happen to the people that they do?

When our First Parents sinned they were expelled from the Garden of Eden, and they were submitted to a sentence of hard, and unproductive work, by the sweat of their brows,they would labor and nature would not co-operate, the ground was cursed, bore thorns and thistles. Nature suffered corruption, disorder along with the corruption of man, death. By the sweat of their brows will they eat bread. Plagues and disease became a reality. Although a new earth would happen in the future by the reinstatement of mankind in the “grace” of God through Jesus. What ever God allows, permits is for the greater good, He can do no other, for God is Goodness Himself. Who has the mind of the Lord? It could possibly be that those who suffer these things were taken to a happier existence, free from poverty, sickness, and hunger. After all, earth was never meant to be Paradise, but it was never meant to be Hell either. Man has a lot to do with natural disaster, and disease, he is the steward of the material universe. But by his conduct moral corruption exists,and it affects the world he lives in, this is what redemption is all about. Adam was promised a Redeemer.

 

[John_Martin]

We have a winner.

If I may interpose an analogy, in the county where I live the authority for “stopping evil” has been delegated to our elected sheriff. He and his deputies are responsible for that job, and how well they do their job impacts on how much evil is extant in our county.

According to the first two chapters of Genesis, the authority (“dominion”) over this physical world was placed in the hands of human beings. The amount of evil in our world is directly dependent on our efficiency in stopping it.

Well said. And even on top of that, God sent his Son, to give his Spirit to all uniting to him with Grace, infusing Virtue in us so that we can live and act in Faith, Hope, and Charity. So, let’s tell the whole world about Jesus and his Church, his Gift of his Spirit, so that all will join us and human evil will end in the world.

One might say, “Well, all do not want to join in this or with this Jesus”. Okay, then, there goes part of the world remaining in evil not participating in the solution for evil and sin provided directly by God.

Do we want an end to evil? Make use of God’s intervention and become Catholic whole heartedly and then invite others. We are to blame for evil if we do not make use of this direct and divine intervention of Jesus and his Church.

 

[thinkandmull]

I think its so obvious that God could stop suffering. We can know in many ways not to touch fire without knowing what pain feels like. The explanation of suffering for adults is that they can a grow spirituality from it, or it is a punishment. Saying stuff like “you learn compassion when you see someone suffer” is nonsense. People can love perfectly without that pity for someone. Children’s suffering must cause a greater joy for them in the next life. Not that God is the cause of the suffering, but He allows it and does keep the painful experience in existence as long as it endures. It’s a little hard to explain how one can have a greater joy latter from having suffered but it makes sense to me…

 

[Bookcat]

In addition to the Catechism.

Listen Free to Jimmy Akins talk shop.catholic.com/newsletter

 

[oldcelt]

I think its so obvious that God could stop suffering. We can know in many ways not to touch fire without knowing what pain feels like. The explanation of suffering for adults is that they can a grow spirituality from it, or it is a punishment. Saying stuff like “you learn compassion when you see someone suffer” is nonsense. People can love perfectly without that pity for someone. Children’s suffering must cause a greater joy for them in the next life. Not that God is the cause of the suffering, but He allows it and does keep the painful experience in existence as long as it endures. It’s a little hard to explain how one can have a greater joy latter from having suffered but it makes sense to me…

The problem is that the Christian God knew all from the instant of creation and yet still created children to suffer and die. He is, therefore, the first cause of the suffering.

John

 

[DaveBj]

The problem is that the Christian God knew all from the instant of creation and yet still created children to suffer and die. He is, therefore, the first cause of the suffering.

John

There is a difference between God’s (there is only one God) knowing what choices the members of His creation would make, and what the negative results of those choices would be, on the one hand, and, on the other hand, causing the members of creation to make those bad choices, thus causing them to suffer. A deity that fits the latter description could be said to be the first cause of suffering. The Christian God, Who fits the former description, cannot be said to be the first cause of suffering.

 

[oldcelt]

There is a difference between God’s (there is only one God) knowing what choices the members of His creation would make, and what the negative results of those choices would be, on the one hand, and, on the other hand, causing the members of creation to make those bad choices, thus causing them to suffer. A deity that fits the latter description could be said to be the first cause of suffering. The Christian God, Who fits the former description, cannot be said to be the first cause of suffering.

Your own doctrine disagrees.

We may now briefly summarize the whole Catholic doctrine, which is in harmony with our reason as well as our moral sentiments. According to the doctrinal decisions of general and particular synods, God infallibly foresees and immutably preordains from eternity all future events

newadvent.org/cathen/12378a.htm

Naturally, they go on to try to justify this with free will and end up with the old mystery answer. However, the guiding doctrine is clear.

 

[ynotzap]

Your own doctrine disagrees.

newadvent.org/cathen/12378a.htm

Naturally, they go on to try to justify this with free will and end up with the old mystery answer. However, the guiding doctrine is clear.

Suffering is the effect or physical or spiritual disorder. It started with the spiritual, sin. Man was created in an ordered state, no suffering. By his choice, one of pride and disobedience suffering came into the world. God in His omniscience knew man would fall. He can not make an infallible man, to be infallible he would have to be God. Man is finite, limited, fallible. So should God not create man because he is fallible, capable of sin and suffering? God being the God that He is, has a plan for the redemption of fallible man, for God can do all things, nothing is impossible to Him. Suffering has an end in the physical world in death of the body. But life continues in the spiritual world. Suffering of a spiritual nature, and then also of a physical nature (at the Resurrection) can continue if man has not avail himself of the Redemption that God provided in His Son Jesus Christ.
Is it better to exist and suffer and stop suffering in this new mode of existence than not to exist at all? And it is possible through God to accept suffering in union with Jesus Christ so that we can resurrect with Him. We can transform our sufferings with the grace of God into acts of love for Him, and mankind, suffering can be meritorious.for ourselves and others, but we must exercise our Faith, Trust, and Love for God. In this light suffering has meaning, and can be explained, but not without the grace of redemption. The secular world can not understand it is a mystery to them.

 

[oldcelt]

Suffering is the effect or physical or spiritual disorder. It started with the spiritual, sin. Man was created in an ordered state, no suffering. By his choice, one of pride and disobedience suffering came into the world. God in His omniscience knew man would fall. He can not make an infallible man, to be infallible he would have to be God. Man is finite, limited, fallible. So should God not create man because he is fallible, capable of sin and suffering? God being the God that He is, has a plan for the redemption of fallible man, for God can do all things, nothing is impossible to Him. Suffering has an end in the physical world in death of the body. But life continues in the spiritual world. Suffering of a spiritual nature, and then also of a physical nature (at the Resurrection) can continue if man has not avail himself of the Redemption that God provided in His Son Jesus Christ.
Is it better to exist and suffer and stop suffering in this new mode of existence than not to exist at all? And it is possible through God to accept suffering in union with Jesus Christ so that we can resurrect with Him. We can transform our sufferings with the grace of God into acts of love for Him, and mankind, suffering can be meritorious.for ourselves and others, but we must exercise our Faith, Trust, and Love for God. In this light suffering has meaning, and can be explained, but not without the grace of redemption. The secular world can not understand it is a mystery to them.

And so does every one. Some accept that mystery on faith, others do not.

 

[thinkandmull]

oldcelt, that is just the Old CE’s interpretation of councils. Catholics can believe in Molinism, and should. Allowing pain to improve people is obvious. Why children suffer is harder for us to understand, but the only answer to why god doesn’t step in and stop children’s pain is that there is a far greater joy than results in heaven the knowledge that one is Home, free from the sufferings forever.

I don’t know what are the other explanations that Jimmy Akin gave but I am pretty sure I disagree with them

 

[oldcelt]

oldcelt, that is just the Old CE’s interpretation of councils. Catholics can believe in Molinism, and should. Allowing pain to improve people is obvious. Why children suffer is harder for us to understand, but the only answer to why god doesn’t step in and stop children’s pain is that there is a far greater joy than results in heaven the knowledge that one is Home, free from the sufferings forever.

I don’t know what are the other explanations that Jimmy Akin gave but I am pretty sure I disagree with them

That is cold comfort for an omnipotent creator. The better explanation is that god has no involvement in the workings of this world and has not since initial creation…some 13 billion years ago…maybe more.