OK, well even if satan cannot be killed (God is all powerful and can do whatever he wants really so I don’t think this is true), couldn’t God just contain him and make sure he has no interaction with humans and doesn’t have hell? As I said before, if hell exists, then God reigns there too. I mean God is omniscient and is everywhere, so God would be in even hell, right?Depends on how you look at it.
I beleive one day Jesus will return and all sin and evil will be completely abolished. Why he doesn’t do it right now? I don’t know. I trust that he has a good reason though.
Another thought is that God created angels to me immortal. So satan simply can’t be killed by design.
Anyone else have a theory?
This may seem like a fine point but it is an important distinction. God does not send people to hell, they choose it over him. He allows them their free will. If we did not have free will we would be incapable of love.Also, why would God send people to hell unless he was in cahoots with the devil? Do you know what I mean?
No one is at the gates of heaven and say “you know what, I think hell is a better fit for me actually.” God doesn’t allow them into heaven (according to the church), thus sending them to hell. You could make the argument that by doing bad things someone “chooses” hell, but given the choice between heaven or hell, no one would choose hell. So really they didn’t choose, God did. That is like saying people in prison chose to go to prison. No, I can assure you that many people would have rather not gone to jail. So they didn’t chose to go to jail, they just chose to do the thing that sent them to jail.This may seem like a fine point but it is an important distinction. God does not send people to hell, they choose it over him. He allows them their free will. If we did not have free will we would be incapable of love.
Well I think that free will is the source of evil really. So let me just set some things straight. If the devil does exist, and God contained him, there would still be evil. I agree with that. But why does God send people to the devil?Also, the devil is not the source of evil, actually. He’s certainly one of its chief supporters, but he was created good. . .so he can’t be the source. He embraced it.
Evil, someone once said, is 'spoiled good. Evil can’t exist on its own. You can’t imagine, for example, any evil which isn’t a spoiled good. As I said before, if you ‘locked up the devil’. . .evil would still exist.
I do not think that in this world good can exist independently of evil. It will, of course, do so at the end of the world (perhaps a reason the world has to end) and while we cannot see its purpose, God must have a purpose. It must have been important enough to create creatures who could choose freely that the fact that once you had the choice, evil came in as a spoiled good, that the free choice was more important than a chance that evil would get chosen at times.
=06convert-Depends on how you look at it.
I beleive one day Jesus will return and all sin and evil will be completely abolished. Why he doesn’t do it right now? I don’t know. I trust that he has a good reason though.
Another thought is that God created angels to me immortal. So satan simply can’t be killed by design.
Anyone else have a theory?
I hear all this talk about God sending poeple to hell, and it distresses me a little. It sounds to me like you are making God out as this monster that does what ever he pleases, and doesn’t care about how he does it. That to me is very wrong. God sent his only Son to reveal to us things about heaven, and to accually show us himself. In Jesus we see God. God could choose to make us love him by not letting us sin, however He wants us to have free will. One time when I was a young boy, this one kid was trying to make me like him, and even went as far as holding me under water to make me say that I would like him. I finally told him that I would like him just to get him off my back, then I just avoided him because I was afraid of him. Now what this guy was doing was taking away my free will. Did I like him. Not a chance. I was afraid of him. Now do you want God to do that. Offcouse not. God made us inteligent humanbeings so we could choose weather we want to do His will or not. By distroying the devil He would not be any better then all of the tyrants through history that would try to distroy anyone that wouldn’t do what they wanted. I am going on longer then maybe I should, so the last thing I have to say is that God does not send poeple to hell, poeple, by not following thier consiunce that God gave them, are sending them selves to hell.Well I think that free will is the source of evil really. So let me just set some things straight. If the devil does exist, and God contained him, there would still be evil. I agree with that. But why does God send people to the devil?
God doesn’t send people to Hell, people do that themselves. God simply allows them to experience the consequences of their actions.Also, why would God send people to hell unless he was in cahoots with the devil? Do you know what I mean?
You keep saying “according to the church”. However your statements are not accurate. You would do better saying “according to what I think the Church is saying”No one is at the gates of heaven and say “you know what, I think hell is a better fit for me actually.” God doesn’t allow them into heaven (according to the church), thus sending them to hell. You could make the argument that by doing bad things someone “chooses” hell, but given the choice between heaven or hell, no one would choose hell. So really they didn’t choose, God did. That is like saying people in prison chose to go to prison. No, I can assure you that many people would have rather not gone to jail. So they didn’t chose to go to jail, they just chose to do the thing that sent them to jail.
And there is one fatal flaw about that analogy…people that are breaking the law enough to go to jail almost always know that what they are doing could make them go to jail. Many people that are sent to hell (according to the church) don’t even believe in God and don’t know the (supposed) actions to their consequences.
If you commit a mortal sin do you automatically go to hell? Anyway, by those standards, atheists are not committing mortal sin because they do not know what they are doing is wrong. If you don’t believe that God exists, then how could you know that it is wrong to believe that?You keep saying “according to the church”. However your statements are not accurate. You would do better saying “according to what I think the Church is saying”
According to the Church - In order for a sin to be a mortal sin 3 conditions must be met 1. it must be a grave matter, 2. the person must know that it is a mortal sin and 3. the person must knowingly consent to the commit that sin.
This is how an individual chooses against God and for hell. Hell is being permanently disconnected from God.
No you go to hell if you die with unrepentant mortal sin.If you commit a mortal sin do you automatically go to hell? Anyway, by those standards, atheists are not committing mortal sin because they do not know what they are doing is wrong. If you don’t believe that God exists, then how could you know that it is wrong to believe that?
The existence of God is debated though. If God revealed himself explicitly, and his existence was a fact that everyone knew, I would agree with this. But many people, and rightfully so I would say, do not think He exists. They do make some good points.Nobody goes to hell unknowingly, and nobody goes to hell unwillingly. That is part of the real tragedy of hell --that there was always a chance and always a choice for the person, right up to the moment of death, where he or she could say “yes” to God instead of "No, I will not obey you, I wish to be god myself’.
I agree with what you are saying here. I do think God is just. I just don’t think that eternal suffering is the proper punishment for even a mortal sin. Even an eye for an eye is far more just than that. Sending someone to hell is like “infinite eyes for an eye.” That is why I think you just get sent back down to earth instead of going to hell. That is the only just thing IMO.I think you mistakenly think that God is out there just kind of mindlessly recording ‘rule breaking’ and that even if little Jimmy didn’t know that he did something wrong, if it’s ‘against the rules’ little Jimmy is a goner.
God is JUST. People forget that. They tend to think either that He is a cosmic marshmallow who will ultimately just get everybody thrown into heaven for a group hug, or they’ll go completely in a 180 and think that he is some kind of soulless monster who has a million esoteric rules and if you break one–even unknowingly–you’re doomed.
A JUST God would not only know that a person sinned, he would also know if the person knew that it was a sin. And mercy would say, “Even if the action was wrong, there was no knowledge”. . .therefore, no ‘mortal’ sin, therefore forgiveness.
You said yourself that in life people can change. So instead of punishing them after one life, I think God gives people more chances to change and sends them back to earth. After a while the person will learn the truth.But you see, you’re assuming that the punishment isn’t fair because you’re likewise assuming the person would ‘change’ or regret at some point in eternity.
Suppose you have a person who is wielding a knife and announcing that the minute he gets into a locked building he is going to start killing the people there?
You would NEVER let the person into the building if he continued to state his intent to kill, would you?
That’s analogous to heaven and hell. A person in hell wants to ‘kill’ (spiritually) himself and everyone else because that is the ultimate rejection of God’s gift of life. The person in hell is never going to change and regret. Ever. You and I, living on earth, if we were in prison for life, might change. But once we die. . .we don’t change.
Think about what you’re saying. Basically you accept my reasoning because here’s the thing. . .ultimately you’re saying that after X reincarnations the person will ‘go good’ and get to heaven instead of hell. You’re acknowledging that the person DOES have to change. What you aren’t accepting is that at death, a person cannot change. (In life, we can. In death, we can’t. Simple as that).
And God is fair. All through the person’s life there are MULTIPLE opportunities to choose heaven and life. Even for the person who has never heard of God, God will make Himself known.
You might not think God has done so to your satisfaction and specifications. . .but I ask you. . .when you look at your little son, don’t you feel a great love? Even knowing that your son is going to face all kinds of little ups and downs, don’t you think life is worth it? Won’t you try to give him opportunities–and won’t he reject some, even some good ones? And won’t he learn?
When he will want to walk, and will stubbornly keep on trying and falling, you’ll be most loving if you don’t pick him up because if you pick him up, he won’t learn.
And God is a father too. . .