Why doesn't God just destroy the devil?

[Biggie]

What about people that become atheists or agnostics through reasoning and logic? I am not an atheist but I know enough of them and debated enough of them that I know their logic is quite sound. These people would argue that if there is a God, he certainly did not “inform us how we were constituted” or inform us how to live in a way that could not be argued. I believe in God because of a personal connection that I feel I have with Him…but if it wasn’t for that, and it was just based on what the Bible said, I would probably be an atheist too.

I certainly accept that atheism is one rational argument. Unfortunately, today’s atheists incorrectly hold that a belief in God is irrational and attempt to appeal to superior logic in defense of the attack. I think it is quite clear that a belief in God is also rational, and the decision to believe or not is one of will - or more properly as you have admirably noted, one of the heart. Your reason for belief strikes right at the nature of the human relationship with God as I earlier alluded to. In defense of scripture, it is all in how it is read. Scripture is not a history book or a science book, but much more than that. Who can know something of God unless he reveals it?

And as for the fate of atheists, that is certainly in God’s hands. I do think it is certain, though, as Jesus said, we must love God with all our strength and love our neighbor as ourselves - to enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Biggie]

The existence of God is debated though. If God revealed himself explicitly, and his existence was a fact that everyone knew, I would agree with this. But many people, and rightfully so I would say, do not think He exists. They do make some good points.

Food for your thought, on this, PL…

If God revealed himself explicitly, how could he be loved by mere human beings, or at least how could anyone believe it is love?

Even in our own puny world, let’s say the President began stopping by your house seven days a week. Then you began having all your needs met with no effort on your part. Now you are completely, demonstrably secure in your own little world. Would people believe the relationship between you and the President is one of friendship? Or would they more likely believe it is symbiotic? Would you be free to tell the President to take a hike, you didn’t feel like arranging your day around him? (Poor example but the best I could quickly cook up.)

I truly think if you consider it carefully you would conclude as I have that God’s physical presence would resolve nothing. Adam and Eve communed with God. No need for faith. Did that resolve their doubt? Jesus came, performed many wonders and taught profoundly, all the while professing himself to be God. Did it resolve any doubt?

 

[Timbothefiveth]

Also, why would God send people to hell unless he was in cahoots with the devil? Do you know what I mean?

Please don’t say this. Insinuating stuff like this seems to be at least part of what Jesus warned about when he talked about “blasphemy against the holy spirit”. The Lord sends them there because they chose to go, he’s not “in cahoots” with evil. This is like saying that because a cop sends people to prison he’s in cahoots with the mafia, ignoring the fact that the cop spent his whole life trying to make sure the suspect in question didn’t join a gang. The Lord has done much more than that for us. If He was in cahoots with evil He wouldn’t tell us how not to sin, give us a church to help us, or send His only son to die for us.

Sending someone to hell is like “infinite eyes for an eye.”

Sin is evil enough to merit eternal punishment. I don’t think we can comprehend just how evil it is.

 

[PJM]

How about you write down your Theology. Explain the nature of God. Why he created us. How it all works. Devil, Jesus, evil, everything. That way we know what you believe. Personally, I think you are just making it up as you go.

Reincarnation makes no less sense than Jesus and the Devil.

*** The reply [in part] ***

This is what I believe, in a nutshell: God exists. God is benevolent. I think that once you die, and you are not worthy of heaven, you are reincarnated and come back to earth as many times as needed until you finally get it. I don’t know about the divinity of Jesus, but I do know he was a great teacher that had a very strong connection with God

.

My comments.

***The idea of reincarnation reflects a total lack of understanding of the “Nature of God.”

***God can be briefly defined as “all and every good thing perfected.”

We then ask: are Justice and Fairness “good things” and logic replies "yes they are“. So these are two of the “everything good” attributes of God. Others include being all-loving, all-knowing, all-wise, all-merciful, and all-powerful. This does not complete the list but is sufficient for this lesson. In the final analysis, the scales of Divine Good are balanced by God’s Justice and Fairness.

This alone precludes every possibility of reincarnation. Why is that?

Humanity is Created [to make out of nothing] with a nature similar to God’s own. Gen. 1:26-27. In what manner are we like God in nature, but not degree of perfection?

God is SPIRIT. Gen. 1:v. 2 “The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters.” Humanity alone on the face of the earth, are gifted with a Mind, an Intellect, Freewill and a Soul. This can be proven despite the FACT that these are Spiritual Things similar to God‘s own.

Something can only share what it possesses. If Something does not possess something, obviously it cannot share it. So our physical body parts can come from our parents; BUT our Spiritual Things can ONLY come from God. Mind, Intellect, Freewill can NOT be quantified, thus they cannot be passed from person to person.

This is HIGHLY significant, because these THINGS originate from a Power, a source outside of ourselves; [that we chose to call “God”], logic dictates that we are so gifted for a precise reason and a specific application.

At this juncture it is relevant to point out that mind, intellect and freewill are all essential to our ability to Love and be loved.

Freewill can only be applied in conjunction with the use of our minds and intellects. The precise reason for these Gifts has to do with yet another attribute of this “God.” Deut.4: 24 “For the LORD your God is a devouring fire, a jealous God.” [Keep in mind God can ONLY be “good.”]

God’s just jealously too is HIGHLY significant. It is the “root cause” for these “Spiritual Things” we have been discussing.

This Power that we call “God” grants these gifts precisely because nothing else on earth has the ability to Praise Him, Worship Him and return love for Love.

Note that the Universe consist of Billions of galaxies, our galaxy alone has Billions of planets, but only Planet Earth has the Natural ability to sustain life. Again for a precise reason. To facilitate humanity.

It is this ability to FREELY choose to love God, Worship God, and serve God in this life, for which we were Created.

Archbishop Fulton Sheen****, in his book; “The Life of Christ” explains quite correctly that This Divine being we call God, desires a personal relationship with humanity FAR MORE than we desire one with our God. It was God who created us in His Image, God who forgave Adam and Eve, God who choose Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon, the Prophets, His Mother Mary, John the Baptizer, Peter and the Apostles and even you and me. NOT the other way around. All this so that we could freely choose to know, love, serve and obey Him, and then with His grace, His help, accept our personal Salvation.

One should now be able to see the lack of any possibility for reincarnation. Such a posture denied the very Nature, justice and fairness of God.

That and space limitations friends is it for now.

Love and prayers,

Pat**

 

[Howardblk25]

I read all this talk about reincarnation like it is a second chance or something. Some of you say that we are not worthy of heaven so we have to come back to earth to try again. As a catholic I believe in purgatory to be purified of the attachment to this life before we can enter Heaven. To me that seems a lot more logical then reincartation.

 

[PJM]

=prettylarge;6057922]Why would he create us so some of us go to hell? That makes even less sense to be honest.

***I’ll do better than that:thumbsup:

Let’s be Honest, Fair and logical***

***In what precise manner are all humans the same and at the same time vastly different?

Answer: We have all been gifted with minds, intellects, freewills and souls, and NO TWO PEOPLE ARE IDENTICAL throughout all of time, space and history.

Only humanity on earth share these “Godly attributes” [Gen.1 :26-27] so why is this?

Further in all the Galaxies, all the planets, ONLY EARTH has the “Natural” ability to sustain life. So why is this? Earth alone has been so designed to support humanity, and man is to “have dominion over all of the earth.” Earth was specifically Created [to make out of nothing] to support man. Why?[Gen 1: 28-30]

Humanity has a Mind, Intellect, freewill and soul, similar to God’s, but not as perfect. Why? Because each of these SPIRITUAL THINGS are essential to be able to love.

Humanity is Created for the precise cause and reason of Loving God, who First LOVED Us. Further, we are made with the ability to freely choose to love God or hate God.* Being “nutural” is the same as hating God.

God desires that we choose to know, love, serve, and obey Him in all ways, and grants sufficient grace to make it possible. BUT God leaves it up to us to decide; thus we, NOT GOD choose for ourselves, heaven or hell. God simply affirms our freewill choice.

So friend, don’t blame God. It’s our choice, that friend is how Divine Justice and Fairness work. God can only do good things because He is “every good thing perfected.” He can and DOES allow us to decide for ourselves, knowing that everyone is OFFERED [not forced to accept…OFFERED] sufficient grace to cooperate fully with God’s plan for our salvation.

In dying on the Cross Chrsit Redeemed us, as in re-opened the gates of heaven that ahd been locked by the sins of Adam and Eve. Slavation is a completely seperate issue.

There you have it. A Honest, fair, logical and I included also the completly TRUE explaination.

Love andd prayers,

Pat**

 

[a_real_person]

The Implausibility of Satan

I often hear Christians talk about Satan, “The Great Deceiver”. When I tell them that I am quite confident there is no such being, they ask me how can I be so sure? Therefore, I decided to write this article to explain why I find the existence of such a being to be extremely implausible.

So who is Satan? Satan is supposedly a powerful, supernatural being created by God. God intended Satan to be good. Yet Satan turned evil. How is it possible that God–from whom only good things come–created a supernatural being that turned evil? Right off the proverbial bat, this seems to make the idea of Satan hard to believe. Note that Matthew 7:18 says, “a good tree cannot bear bad fruit.” How could the “bad fruit” of Satan have come from the “good tree” of God?"

Say that God did create this supernatural being that turned evil. How is it possible that an omniscient God would not know that Satan would turn evil? Actually, some have argued that God did know it would happen, so let’s look at the question from both angles. If God did know Satan would turn evil, why would God have created Satan? If I made proverbial widgets, and I could tell that one of my widgets wasn’t going to meet my needs, wouldn’t I be a fool to make it anyway? If God knew his creation would turn evil, and created Satan anyway, doesn’t that mean God wanted Satan to turn evil, or that He was at least ambivalent about it?

Some have said that Satan’s turning evil was known, and taken into account in God’s long-term plan. But why would an all-good God need an evil Satan in His long-term plans? One would think that an all-good God would be able to enact whatever plans He has without need of an evil super-being.

So what if God didn’t know that Satan would turn evil? Wouldn’t that mean that God is not omniscient? Some argue that because of free will, God’s omniscience does not give God the ability to know what decisions will be made by His creations. So perhaps, by giving Satan free will, God did not know what Satan would do. But shouldn’t a perfect God at least have considered the possibility and made some sort of contingency plan?

Let’s move on and assume that somehow Satan did turn evil–whether or not God knew it would happen. Why did God not immediately destroy Satan? Or, if God doesn’t want to destroy his own creations, why did God at least not immediately contain Satan, perhaps lock him up in hell? Or take away his supernatural powers? I think that Christians say that God will do this at the time of judgment. Why wait? Why let Satan do evil in the meantime? If God can stop Satan now, and doesn’t, isn’t God guilty of allowing evil? Isn’t God acting as an accomplice to evil?

Now let’s assume that there is some explanation for this. So we have Satan, a powerful being, who is intent on corrupting man. Why does Satan only do things surreptitiously? For example, why doesn’t Satan shoot intense pain through every human on Earth until they confess their allegiance to him? I know that Christians say God acts as a “hidden God” because He wants to see if we will freely choose Him. But it seems unlikely that Satan, a pure evil being, would have any such motivation. So why doesn’t Satan just come on down and kill everybody or do whatever evil he feels like?

Maybe God wouldn’t allow Satan to act so bold? Then why does God let Satan operate surreptitiously? God allows Satan to do surreptitious evil? This doesn’t seem to make any sense. One explanation, offered by apologist Dr. Hugh Ross, is that Satan is not allowed to tempt us more than we are capable of withstanding. So I suppose that means that nobody is ever successfully tempted by Satan, right? If they are, then by definition, they have been tempted more than they can withstand, right?

I suppose Dr. Ross is saying that Satan is only allowed to tempt us to the extent that God expects us to be able to withstand. But how could this really work? If Dr. Ross is right and God limits Satan’s evil, then is Satan constantly asking God, “hey God, can I, like, shoot massive pain through Joe’s body and see if that turns Joe against you?” And God says, “no, Satan, you may not.” And then Satan asks, “well–can I, like, kill Joe’s baby and see if that turns him against you?” And then God says, “oh, okay, Satan, I guess you can do that.” You might think I’m being sacrilegious but the point is that, although some theologies may sound logical when you read them in a book, when you try to take them off the pages of the book and see how they work in actual practice, they are exposed as just being pat answers that have no real value.

[Note: If you think my pretend conversation between God and Satan is sacrilegious, a very similar conversation is depicted in the book of Job where Satan convinces God to allow him to kill Job’s family and servants. So, if someone close to you dies, is it because Satan convinced God to let him kill them?]

It seems to me, then, that either option, Satan self-limits his evil for some reason or God limits Satan’s evil, isn’t very believable. But say I’m wrong, say that one or the other of these explains why Satan’s evil is at least somewhat constrained. However, if Satan does anything at all to influence man, how can man be said to have free will, given that Satan has supernatural powers and we don’t? How can God really expect us mere mortals to be able to withstand any temptation by a supernatural evil being? If Satan can use supernatural powers–even “a little bit” against us mere mortal humans–how can we truly have free will?

 

[a_real_person]

At least a few Christians believe, for example, that Satan placed fossils on Earth to mislead man into believing in evolution. I know that most Christians do not believe this, I simply found this a convenient example. So let’s suppose that Satan did leave the fossils. If true, this would mean that we cannot believe anything we see, or any of what our senses tell us–they could just be satanic delusions. How can we have free will if there is nothing that we can know with certainty? Thus I say again, if Satan can use any of his supernatural powers against us, then free will does not exist.

By the way, does Satan not know that God is omnipotent? How dumb could Satan be to think that he could possibly win out against the omnipotent Creator, the Creator of everything including even himself? Some Christians say that Satan does know he will eventually lose, but that he just wants to take as many people down to hell with him as he can. But how could Satan have ever been dumb enough to even consider revolting against God, knowing full-well that he could not possibly win? And how could have a third of God’s angels have been dumb enough to join Satan, as they too should have known from the beginning that they have no real chance to win?

Also, what is the reason for God not revealing Himself to us in obvious ways? When a skeptic asks that question, Christians will often answer that God feels that if we were to have absolute proof of His existence, we wouldn’t have the free will to reject Him. Yet Satan, even though he had proof-positive of God’s existence, was still able to choose to disobey God. So if Satan could have proof-positive of God and still have free will to disobey God, then why can’t we have proof-positive of God?

Finally, if Satan could become evil because of free will, how will God ever solve the problem of evil? Couldn’t tomorrow, some other creation of God use its free will to turn evil? Couldn’t this continue to happen for all eternity? How can heaven be any better than Earth if it is subject to the same problem of free will allowing beings to choose evil?

Let me summarize. I don’t believe an all-good God could have created a powerful, supernatural being that turned evil. But even if I am wrong, I don’t believe an omniscient God could not have known it would happen, or at least make contingency plans. But if somehow this evil Satan did come to exist, I don’t think that an all-good God would let Satan continue to do evil. But if God did let Satan continue to do evil, I don’t think an all-evil super-being would be restrained or act surreptitiously–he would use his supernatural powers however he felt like it. But even if this evil being was for some reason at least somewhat restrained, the fact that he, having supernatural powers, could have influence over us mere mortals would mean that we don’t truly have free will. So, from start to finish, the concept of an all-evil, super-being Satan is untenable.

 

[prettylarge]

So, from start to finish, the concept of an all-evil, super-being Satan is untenable.

I totally agree with everything you posted. Anyway, I think the devil is psychological and within all of us. When someone says “oh the devil tempted me to masturbate” or “the devil tempted me to cheat on my wife” or “the devil tempted me to steal that thing.” No, those are just cop outs. That was all you. Sexual acts feel good and stealing something means you get something you want. It isn’t the devil that effects your actions, it is just you rationalizing your actions by saying the devil is responsible.

 

[Pons]

The Implausibility of Satan

You could’ve linked to the site you copied and pasted from.

God intended Satan to be good. Yet Satan turned evil. How is it possible that God–from whom only good things come–created a supernatural being that turned evil? Right off the proverbial bat, this seems to make the idea of Satan hard to believe. Note that Matthew 7:18 says, “a good tree cannot bear bad fruit.” How could the “bad fruit” of Satan have come from the “good tree” of God?"

Plants don’t have free will. Fruit doesn’t choose to spoil or be infested. Angels and humans have free will.

The rest looks like it deals with the problem of Evil, which I don’t know much about. Regardless, God wills what He wills.

Anyway, I think the devil is psychological and within all of us.

What about God then? A lot of people say the same about Him. One thing leads to another.

 

[Biggie]

Just for kicks and giggles …

How can we have free will if there is nothing that we can know with certainty? Thus I say again, if Satan can use any of his supernatural powers against us, then free will does not exist.

Nothing Catholic says Satan has supernatural powers over us. He is our enemy, a spiritual principality. His spiritual nature makes it impossible for us to combat him directly, and enables him to suggest to us. That is the extent of his power.

By the way, does Satan not know that God is omnipotent? How dumb could Satan be to think that he could possibly win out against the omnipotent Creator, the Creator of everything including even himself?

Why did man reject God in the midst of abundance and in communion with God? You are taking a shallow view of the ends of evil. Satan, just as man, rejected the notion that the love of God is necessary to fulfillment and accepted that love prevents the pursuit of independent power, self fulfillment. Satan believes God is lying as to God’s nature and as to Satan’s nature. He believes that the fall of man demonstrates man is an infinitely flawed creation. If God is shown to have created imperfection, God is also shown to be a liar as to his own omnipotence. It is Satan’s gambit that with the defeat of God in the battle over man, God’s profession of justice will require his abdication.

Also, what is the reason for God not revealing Himself to us in obvious ways? When a skeptic asks that question, Christians will often answer that God feels that if we were to have absolute proof of His existence, we wouldn’t have the free will to reject Him. Yet Satan, even though he had proof-positive of God’s existence, was still able to choose to disobey God. So if Satan could have proof-positive of God and still have free will to disobey God, then why can’t we have proof-positive of God?

The first premise is correct, in part. Adam, as well, communed with God. The terms of Satan’s existence, as were the original terms of man’s existence are different than the terms of fallen man’s existence. The key understanding is that love requires the freedom of the beloved to reject the lover. God’s presence impinges on that freedom only in the fallen world.

Finally, if Satan could become evil because of free will, how will God ever solve the problem of evil?

God already has solved the problem of evil in the person of Jesus Christ. Although one could will to love God, the freedom of that choice could never be demonstrated without the person of Jesus

Let me summarize. I don’t believe an all-good God could have created a powerful, supernatural being that turned evil. But even if I am wrong, I don’t believe an omniscient God could not have known it would happen, or at least make contingency plans. But if somehow this evil Satan did come to exist, I don’t think that an all-good God would let Satan continue to do evil. But if God did let Satan continue to do evil, I don’t think an all-evil super-being would be restrained or act surreptitiously–he would use his supernatural powers however he felt like it. But even if this evil being was for some reason at least somewhat restrained, the fact that he, having supernatural powers, could have influence over us mere mortals would mean that we don’t truly have free will. So, from start to finish, the concept of an all-evil, super-being Satan is untenable.

I just think you are failing to see that God is love, and love is both the good news the bad news. Love has allowed the opportunity for rejection, and love has achieved the solution. To say Satan is “untenable” is really foolish and is to contradict the word of Jesus.

 

[Benadam]

I don’t believe an all-good God could have created a powerful, supernatural being that turned evil. But even if I am wrong, I don’t believe an omniscient God could not have known it would happen, or at least make contingency plans. But if somehow this evil Satan did come to exist, I don’t think that an all-good God would let Satan continue to do evil.

This kind of statement is a misunderstanding of terms because they haven’t been grasped, or they are denied, by it’s author. To be able to know what is all-good one must be all-good. Intellectual honesty demands that sometimes we don’t know how or why something is deemed good by the All Good God. All the belief statements are made with insufficient knowledge about omniscience and omnipotence to form such beliefs about an omniscient, omnipotent God.

 

[chaunceygardner]

I don’t understand this. If God is all powerful and good, why doesn’t he just destroy the devil? If the devil is the source of evil, and God lets the devil exist, isn’t God supporting evil? It is as if by allowing the devil to exist, the devil is just another part of God. Does this make sense to you guys? What is the reasoning behind God not destroying the devil?

I will admit right off I haven’t read all the posts between the start and here. But this question is one that has intrigued me for years, and I do note that several contributors have taken a position similar to mine, which I will summarize as follows:

If Satan exists and was created by God, then God could remove him, delete him, terminate him, whatever. If God does not have that power, then God could not be “God”.

If Satan exists and God could do the above, why would God let Satan exist to torment his people who are made in His image? That would require a very sick, warped mind.

If God cannot destroy Satan, then we have two gods of equal power, or as the OP says, two aspects to God (good and evil). Hmmmm. How could that be when there is only one Supreme Deity, one Creator of the universe? And where did the two equal gods come from? Who is in control here?

Therefore, if there is a God, there is no Satan, at least not a being who is a counterpoint to God. All the evil attributed to Satan is of our own doing. We are responsible. We are not tempted by Satan, we are tempted by our own human (animal) nature and desires.

So my opinion is that the reason God does not “just destroy the devil” is that there is no devil to destroy.

 

[prettylarge]

Therefore, if there is a God, there is no Satan, at least not a being who is a counterpoint to God. All the evil attributed to Satan is of our own doing. We are responsible. We are not tempted by Satan, we are tempted by our own human (animal) nature and desires.

So my opinion is that the reason God does not “just destroy the devil” is that there is no devil to destroy.

EXACTLY. And I think that when the devil is talked about by Jesus, it is metaphorical…it is a metaphor for the bad in all of us.

 

[chessmane4e5]

I will admit right off I haven’t read all the posts between the start and here. But this question is one that has intrigued me for years, and I do note that several contributors have taken a position similar to mine, which I will summarize as follows:

If Satan exists and was created by God, then God could remove him, delete him, terminate him, whatever. If God does not have that power, then God could not be “God”.

If Satan exists and God could do the above, why would God let Satan exist to torment his people who are made in His image? That would require a very sick, warped mind.

If God cannot destroy Satan, then we have two gods of equal power, or as the OP says, two aspects to God (good and evil). Hmmmm. How could that be when there is only one Supreme Deity, one Creator of the universe? And where did the two equal gods come from? Who is in control here?

Therefore, if there is a God, there is no Satan, at least not a being who is a counterpoint to God. All the evil attributed to Satan is of our own doing. We are responsible. We are not tempted by Satan, we are tempted by our own human (animal) nature and desires.

So my opinion is that the reason God does not “just destroy the devil” is that there is no devil to destroy.

I believe God is a creator not a destroyer. He could do it, but He chooses not to. Why? I do not believe His reason is as you say “to torment His people”. But He is God, I do not expect to understand His ways.

 

[chaunceygardner]

EXACTLY. And I think that when the devil is talked about by Jesus, it is metaphorical…it is a metaphor for the bad in all of us.

I like the way you think. I thought I was pretty much alone on this, so am pleased to see others like yourself who get that same idea from the Words of Jesus.

Peace.

 

[Xarnax42]

I’ve been thinking a lot about this lately, and there are a few good talking points in this thread. I applaud, and I count myself among, those who confidently teach the doctrines of hell as we have been given them by the Catholic church. However, the understanding shown here behind these doctrines primarily seems to be fairly shallow, and usually boils down to one of two responses: “We must trust that God is a good, yet we cannot understand his ways” and “The church says there is a hell, so there must be one.” My problem with these is that they are arguments that presume faith, and they offer very little to the non-believer; in fact, to make such claims and offer nothing to substantiate them seems to me a sure way to reinforce doubt.

The one line of reasoning that seems to hold some promise is that hell is a necessary product of free-will. There is one nagging question, though, that I have been unable to answer, and it doesn’t appeal to theology so much as practical experience. Who among us would sacrifice our very existence to allow one soul to be spared the pains of hell? Or what ten people together would not do the same for one soul? And so forth. Clearly, in God’s wisdom, He has seen it fit to offer a place for those who reject Him completely. But is a final end good enough to justify even one soul in hell something any one person has the gift to comprehend?

 

[prettylarge]

I’ve been thinking a lot about this lately, and there are a few good talking points in this thread. I applaud, and I count myself among, those who confidently teach the doctrines of hell as we have been given them by the Catholic church. However, the understanding shown here behind these doctrines primarily seems to be fairly shallow, and usually boils down to one of two responses: “We must trust that God is a good, yet we cannot understand his ways” and “The church says there is a hell, so there must be one.” My problem with these is that they are arguments that presume faith, and they offer very little to the non-believer; in fact, to make such claims and offer nothing to substantiate them seems to me a sure way to reinforce doubt.

The one line of reasoning that seems to hold some promise is that hell is a necessary product of free-will. There is one nagging question, though, that I have been unable to answer, and it doesn’t appeal to theology so much as practical experience. Who among us would sacrifice our very existence to allow one soul to be spared the pains of hell? Or what ten people together would not do the same for one soul? And so forth. Clearly, in God’s wisdom, He has seen it fit to offer a place for those who reject Him completely. But is a final end good enough to justify even one soul in hell something any one person has the gift to comprehend?

Another thing to think about is how do we know that it is eternal? Is there any scriptural evidence of this (there very well might be)? I would imagine that some time in hell and you would realize that God was right. So if hell exists, how do we know it is eternal?

 

[chaunceygardner]

Another thing to think about is how do we know that it is eternal? Is there any scriptural evidence of this (there very well might be)? I would imagine that some time in hell and you would realize that God was right. So if hell exists, how do we know it is eternal?

Good question. Perhaps we must go through a process of purification and penance before reaching Heaven. The level and length of that process would depend on how well we lived up to the Gospel and the commandments. For some it would be “a walk in the park” while others could find it a little more demanding. That would correlate with Jesus telling the criminal on the next Cross that on that day they would be together in Paradise.

 

[Biggie]

EXACTLY. And I think that when the devil is talked about by Jesus, it is metaphorical…it is a metaphor for the bad in all of us.

And why didn’t Jesus just say that “the bad in all of us” is a “liar and the father of lies”? That the “bad in all of us” has sought to “sift us like wheat”? That the “bad in all of us” should get behind him rather than tempt him to abandon God’s plan? And why didn’t scripture just say the “bad in all of us” tempted our Lord in the desert? It seems to me every time scripture refers to the devil, old testament and new, it is referring to a person. Maybe you are holding out for a rewrite. …