Why Doesn't God Reveal the Truth?

[brentAL]

I am a Southern Baptist, but I have a lot of respect for the Catholic faith. One of my favorite podcasts is Catholic Answers Live. Here is one thing I have wondered about and would like a Catholic perspective:

I think most Protestants are like me and don’t question that the Pope is a man after God’s heart. I would think that most Catholics would agree that Billy Graham is a godly man. Here are two godly men but both have different views on the Eucharist and purgatory. If one view is right and the other is wrong, why doesn’t God reveal the truth to the person with the incorrect view?

Brent

 

[LilyM]

He does! However, we don’t always listen when He does so. Because some people are, either wilfully or through no fault of their own, blinded to the truth. Doesn’t mean there isn’t truth there to be found, of course.

Put it this way. Either the Eucharist really IS His body and blood, or it is merely a symbol and nothing more, can’t be both. Purgatory either exists or it doesn’t, can’t have it both ways. Clearly one side or other is wrong, there’s no possibility that one isn’t.

Like I said, it’s down to human blindness. After all, how many didn’t recognise Christ Himself when He was in front of their very noses in human form? You’d think EVERYONE would have no problems recognising God-made-flesh and all would flock to Him as one, no?

If Pilate couldn’t recognise Truth incarnate when He stood before him, then what on earth makes you think that EVERYONE will automatically recognise the lesser truths?

 

[wardrandolph]

I am a Southern Baptist, but I have a lot of respect for the Catholic faith. One of my favorite podcasts is Catholic Answers Live. Here is one thing I have wondered about and would like a Catholic perspective:

I think most Protestants are like me and don’t question that the Pope is a man after God’s heart. I would think that most Catholics would agree that Billy Graham is a godly man. Here are two godly men but both have different views on the Eucharist and purgatory. If one view is right and the other is wrong, why doesn’t God reveal the truth to the person with the incorrect view?

Brent

But God has revealed the truth in both of these teachings.Its revealed in Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.

 

[PJM]

=brentAL;I think most Protestants are like me and don’t question that the Pope is a man after God’s heart. Catholics would agree that Billy Graham is a godly man. Here are two godly men but both have different views on the Eucharist and purgatory. Why doesn’t God reveal the truth to the person with the incorrect view?Brent

Wow! Great question! It’s God’s decision.

Isaiah 5:8-9 “[8] For my thoughts are not your thoughts,neither are your ways my ways, says the LORD. [9] For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.”

And in B] Matt.11: 25 "At that time Jesus declared, “I thank thee, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to babes;”

Matt. 16:19 detail Jesus giving to the CC “the Key’s to the Kingdom of Heaven.”** Eph. 2:19 **So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, [SINGULAR] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; [SINGULAR] "

This then is heart of the explaination. It was God’s Will and Desire to have only One New Church and One New Faith. Luther, Calivin and others chose for a varity of reasons [none of which are acceptable to God… [because God’s Will cannot change] Job.23: 3 “But he is unchangeable and who can turn him? What he desires, that he does”.

God by His Nature as God must be just . Being an all-knowing God, as well as all-Just an all-Fair, He simply cannot treat those involved in other faith practices than those of His CC as equals."

**John 14: 16 ** And I [Jesus] will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, [the Holy Spirit] to be with you for ever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; you know him, for he dwells with you, and will be in you."

The CC birthed the Bible. It is the CC that asembled and determined which books were to be included in the OT… which some 1,500 yeas Later Luther ignored.

**2Tim.3: 16 **“All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,” So either the entire Bible is true, or none of it is true. Can’t be both way’s.

The Entire New Testamentwas authored by men we know today to have been Catholics. And because the Bible was completely written by the end of the First Century; and the Canon was set early in the Forth Century WHEN HISTORY PROVES THAT THE ONLY CHURCH IN EXISTENCE AT THESE TIMES; IS TODAY’S CC.

The truth of th Eucharist can be found in Mt. 26:26-28; Mk. 14: 22-24, Lk. 22: 19-21, John 6: [look especially at verses: 47,48,50,53,58,66,67… 55 “For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him." * Please take note of the fact that each of thesw authors were eye witness accounts. Then we have Saint Paul in 1 Cor.1:11- 23-29 isuing a warning [in what is beleived to b he first and earliest book written in the NT] that [27] "Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord.* [28] Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
[29] For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.”

One can’t “profane the Lord;” or eat and drink ordinary bread and wine and be judged by God of sinning Mortally."

Five NT authors speak in specific detal…EACH saying that the Bread In My [The Lords] Body," the wine is His Blood" FIVE TIMES IT’s repeated. [God does not grant the grace necessary to non-catholics].

John 6:v. 63… “It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life”. The deciples who then deserted Jesus were not called back by Him. Christ did NOT say I’m,“sorry” I did not man what I taught… ****Jesus let hm leave… then He turned to the Apostles and asked: **** **Do you wish to desert Me too?"
/COLOR]

**v. 67-69 **"Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also wish to go away?” Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life; and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.”

Christ was willing to lose even His Apostles rathr than change His Teaching!

v. 63 was misunderstood by those who deserted Christ and similarly today by those not in “full-Communion” with His desires for One Church; One faith.** Christ KNEW He was speaking of His soon to be GLORIFIED and Risen Body, while those who desert Him assume it GREVIOUS error hat Jesus was speaking of His carnal body.**

FIVE testimonies, No SIX Testimonies; one must Include Chrsit Own Words! God who is Perfect cannot lie, cannot deceive’; but He can choose to hide THEE TRUTH frm those not in full communion with Him; even if thy are extrodinary Christian examples.

Catholics are also right on Purgatory, but space does not allow me to prove it here.

Love and prayers,

Pat**

 

[Pilgrimage]

If one view is right and the other is wrong, why doesn’t God reveal the truth to the person with the incorrect view?

Brent

Isn’t it revealed in the Bible that Jesus shared His last supper with Peter and 11 others who were not Peter, but you cannot share communion with a Catholic ?

Isn’t it revealed that Mary went home with John and was not put on the cross to die for our sins ?

Isn’t it revealed that God says ’ Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and cleaves to his wife, and they become one flesh." (Genesis 2:21-24) and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? (Matthew 19:5)

God intended men to grow up and move away from their dependency on their mothers. Maturing in relationships is moving on, acquiring the wisdom to deal with life events, growing with God, experiencing the world from the inside, living lives as an example of families raised in God’s love, raising children to serve God in His image and to see the grandchildren raised to perfection through the process, even to learn from errors made if this is the case.

The purpose of creation, to create to God’s greater glory, purpose and joy. Anything less denies His love for the world and the giving of His only one true Son to save us from condemnation. This is why and how we have reached this point 2,000+ years later, as imperfect as we are there is no condemnation in Christ Jesus.

A beautiful diamond on a vast pebbled beach is dross if it can’t be found. And this is the problem with religious practices and ideals, men have to be careful otherwise the acts of religiosity become like the many pebbles on the vast beach, hiding the beautiful Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.

God bless

 

[puzzleannie]

I . Here are two godly men but both have different views on the Eucharist and purgatory. If one view is right and the other is wrong, why doesn’t God reveal the truth to the person with the incorrect view?

Brent

God has revealed the truth to humankind. the fullness of his revelation is the Person of Jesus Christ, and the record of transmission of that revelation is contained in the Bible. So the real question is how can two men, both intent in love with the Word of God and with the Person of Jesus Christ read the same bible and come to different conclusions. I think both would agree that the bible must be read as it was written, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. The way through the tangle is to approach Scripture again, this time with a view to reading it in toto to discover how and to whom God sent the Holy Spirit and the authority to interpret scripture.

 

[LilyM]

Isn’t it revealed in the Bible that Jesus shared His last supper with Peter and 11 others who were not Peter, but you cannot share communion with a Catholic ?

And? There’s no indication that the other 11 (10 if you don’t count Judas, who probably didn’t receive the Eucharist) were bitter enemies of Peter!

Indeed, at the last Supper Christ specifically speaks of Peter’s special role -'Simon, Satan has desired to have your soul … but I have prayed for you (singular) that your faith may not fail, and when you (singular) have turned back, strengthen your brothers" (Luke 22:31-32)

Peter, alone of all the Apostles, has special tasks assigned him by the Lord - of strengthening the faith of the others, of feeding them, Jesus’ lambs and sheep.

Isn’t it revealed that Mary went home with John and was not put on the cross to die for our sins ?

Of course, Catholics in no way believe otherwise, is there any Catholic teaching that you can point to that indicates that Mary was crucified in order to die for our sins?

Isn’t it revealed that God says ’ Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and cleaves to his wife, and they become one flesh." (Genesis 2:21-24) and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? (Matthew 19:5)

Uh, yes … your point? You think Catholics believe otherwise?

God intended men to grow up and move away from their dependency on their mothers. Maturing in relationships is moving on, acquiring the wisdom to deal with life events, growing with God, experiencing the world from the inside, living lives as an example of families raised in God’s love, raising children to serve God in His image and to see the grandchildren raised to perfection through the process, even to learn from errors made if this is the case.

Not so simple. Indeed we are, as adults, to grow independently - to a degree. The command ALWAYS remains, for adults as for young children, to honour their mother and father to the utmost degree.

Jesus, who was perfect in obedience to all the commandments, DID doubtless honour His mother most highly - and if we love Him we must do the same.

The purpose of creation, to create to God’s greater glory, purpose and joy. Anything less denies His love for the world and the giving of His only one true Son to save us from condemnation. This is why and how we have reached this point 2,000+ years later, as imperfect as we are there is no condemnation in Christ Jesus.

Only one Son? Are you saying some here have denied that Jesus is the only one and true son of God?

 

[brentAL]

God has revealed the truth to humankind. the fullness of his revelation is the Person of Jesus Christ, and the record of transmission of that revelation is contained in the Bible. So the real question is how can two men, both intent in love with the Word of God and with the Person of Jesus Christ read the same bible and come to different conclusions. I think both would agree that the bible must be read as it was written, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. The way through the tangle is to approach Scripture again, this time with a view to reading it in toto to discover how and to whom God sent the Holy Spirit and the authority to interpret scripture.

Thank you and others who have responded. I agree with you that “the fullness of his relevation is the Person of Jesus Christ.” And it is the love of Christ (believing in Him) that is the cornerstone of worshiping in spirit and in truth.

I don’t know why God does what He does, but I do know it is right. Certainly millions have come to know Christ through the teaching of the Catholic Church. Likewise, many have come to know Christ through Graham and other Protestant ministries. Perhaps God sees no need to “convert” one method over to the other, because they both are spreading the Gospel and that is the ultimate command of Christ to all of us.

Brent

 

[Todd_Easton]

I am a Southern Baptist, but I have a lot of respect for the Catholic faith. One of my favorite podcasts is Catholic Answers Live. Here is one thing I have wondered about and would like a Catholic perspective:

I think most Protestants are like me and don’t question that the Pope is a man after God’s heart. I would think that most Catholics would agree that Billy Graham is a godly man. Here are two godly men but both have different views on the Eucharist and purgatory. If one view is right and the other is wrong, why doesn’t God reveal the truth to the person with the incorrect view?

Brent

It is a mystery but we can trust that God has a good reason for everything He does.
O the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! “For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?” (Romans 8:33-34)
God is obviously interested in saving as many souls as possible. Perhaps His reason for denying Billy Graham the gift of faith in the Catholic Church was because He knows that through Mr. Graham’s preaching many souls would embrace the partial truths of Protestantism and be saved who would otherwise never embrace the fullness of truth found in Catholicism and be saved.

 

[Izdaari]

I am a Southern Baptist, but I have a lot of respect for the Catholic faith. One of my favorite podcasts is Catholic Answers Live. Here is one thing I have wondered about and would like a Catholic perspective:

I think most Protestants are like me and don’t question that the Pope is a man after God’s heart. I would think that most Catholics would agree that Billy Graham is a godly man. Here are two godly men but both have different views on the Eucharist and purgatory. If one view is right and the other is wrong, why doesn’t God reveal the truth to the person with the incorrect view?

Brent

Maybe God doesn’t think those differences are that all-fired important?

He might say: “What is that to thee? Follow thou me.”

 

[wwilligan]

God has revealed the truth to us in the person of his Son Jesus Christ who has said “Unless you eat of the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood you shall not have life within you.” Jesus has given us the gift of His very self and I take Him at his word. For a more complete discussion of the Eucharist read the book on this subject by Dom Anscar Vonier.

 

[davidrjm]

I believe in order to recieve Gods gift of redemption by grace is thru faith is his only begotten son and the work that was accomplished at the cross on our behalf…he die
for the sins of the world…so that thru faith and the proofs of faith, so we can experience
the joys and love awiting for us in heaven…

God loves you…Godbless

 

[Pilgrimage]

And? There’s no indication that the other 11 (10 if you don’t count Judas, who probably didn’t receive the Eucharist) were bitter enemies of Peter!

No, they were at the very ‘same’ table as Peter, a table that is now denied to others in Christ’s name ! Jesus fed them without discrimination.

IPeter, alone of all the Apostles, has special tasks assigned him by the Lord - of strengthening the faith of the others, of feeding them, Jesus’ lambs and sheep.

Yes, Peter was given a specific job to do, he was singled out by both Satan and Jesus for his weakness of faith and therefore Jesus felt he was in need of special prayer because he didn’t know himself. Is Peter now considered infallible, if so why? Is this what Jesus taught him to say of himself ?

Of course, Catholics in no way believe otherwise, is there any Catholic teaching that you can point to that indicates that Mary was crucified in order to die for our sins?

How far off is Jesus from a man that there must be continual prayers to His mother? There is but one Lord and Saviour.

Jesus, who was perfect in obedience to all the commandments, DID doubtless honour His mother most highly - and if we love Him we must do the same.

Absolutely, we should all be like beautiful ornaments around our parent’s necks. But He also wants us ALL to mature in their light into loving parents who produce children walking in the same light who will be like beautiful ornaments around our own necks. Thus embracing His teachings for all our generations. His only one true Son has already been sacrificed, so that no other man needs to bring an end to generations yet to come.

God bless

 

[The_Reginator]

God has revealed the truth to humankind. the fullness of his revelation is the Person of Jesus Christ, and the record of transmission of that revelation is contained in the Bible. So the real question is how can two men, both intent in love with the Word of God and with the Person of Jesus Christ read the same bible and come to different conclusions. I think both would agree that the bible must be read as it was written, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.** The way through the tangle is to approach Scripture again, this time with a view to reading it in toto to discover how and to whom God sent the Holy Spirit and the authority to interpret scripture.**

There’s the rub!!
Jesus did not leave us with a bible. He left us the Church he established with the decent of the Holy Spirit.
Apart from His one and only Church many interpretations have arisen.
So, “why doesn’t God reveal the Truth?
Why doesn’t God reveal the truth to the person with the incorrect view?”
He has revealed His Truth. The Truth is available to anyone who is able to return to the Catholic Church He established.
Actually, it is a complicated question of what is stopping a person from accepting His Church. The reasons are, of course, multi-faceted involving culture, upbringing, deep-rooted prejudice, etc.

 

[Justy821]

Dear Brent,

The key is, if the holy spirit was promised to guide us all in truth, the holy spirit can only be with one institution. Because the Catholic Church was the first Church, we can trust our Savior’s words and trust that he is doing what he promised us he would do: guide us until the end of time.

Outside of the Catholic Church, all we have is division. Billy Graham was a beautiful person, yes, but his beliefs were flawed just like all of our beliefs would be if we did not have the Catholic Church/the holy spirit to show us what the truth is.

If you give a human being a book to read, no one will have the exact same interpretation of what it means. God knew that. We have our own opinions and we are tainted with sinful thoughts, even when we don’t mean to have them. This is why it’s vital that if we want the truth, we can’t rely on our own understanding for it. We have to trust in the first church which was built upon Peter and established by Jesus, and know that Jesus is guiding it to this day.

We (Christians in general) can’t all be right, since none of us are in agreement. This is clear that the holy spirit isn’t guiding us as individuals entirely because for that matter, we would all be angels on earth. We have both elements in us - the spirit of God, but also temptations that we battle. Our thoughts are flawed.

Nothing unclean can enter heaven. Christ gave us redemption, but salvation is up to us. The Catholic Church’s laws themselves are totally pure and full of love. They are also rational.

The Catholic Church’s teachings show us that God intends to teach us the truth in order to get to heaven faster, and to live peacefully and lovingly among one another, no matter what religion someone practices. We have to love every single one of our neighbors, which is why I don’t particularly enjoy discussing the differences among Christians, but I do want to point out the above points because they are the truth, and they also make a lot of sense.

Sincerely,
Justina

 

[Justy821]

By the way, I enjoyed reading all of your posts! Great points, everyone!

 

[Truthseeker77]

The Holy Spirit guides us in all truth (“However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.” John 16:13) .

Where does the Holy Spirit dwell now? In born again believers. The scriptures tell us:

“God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands.” Acts 17:24

“the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.” John 14:17

“Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s.” 1 Corinthians 6:19-20

"Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. ” John 3:3 and 3:5

So we see that the body is the dwelling place for the Holy Spirit for those that are born again, who believe in Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior, repenting of sin and loving Him more than anything or anyone. Anyone not born again, receiving His Spirit, will not go to heaven. Jesus is not religiosity, He is simple and life giving Truth. Go to Him to get truth, not a church, not a minister not anyone. Go to Him. Who is He? He is the Life, Truth and Way and He is the Word that was in the beginning. Pray to Him alone, want Him alone and ask for Him alone and Truth will set you free.

Truth cannot be yours until you are born again and have the Holy Spirit. Truth will be confusing and foolish to you if you do not have Him in you.

Don’t forget…

"who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, saying, “Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit.” But Peter said to him, “Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money! You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity.” Acts 8:14-23

In Christ

 

[Yoeman65]

I believe the problem is AUTHORITY.

As a few posts pointed out - Who has the authority on earth to bind and loose?

Since the beginning of christianity it has been the Church. It gave us what we today know of the Bible and has passed on Tradition in the areas where the Bible did not address.

Though the bible cannot self-substantiate itself, it does say that all about Christ could not be held in ALL the books ever written.

Back to authority - Phillip asked the Ethiopian eunuch if he understood Isaiah. The eunuch smartly replied - “How can I unless someone instructs me?” Phillip the representative for the early church revealed Christ to the eunuch and he was baptised.

The bible was written by an authoritative source - the church. God did not write the bible, He had it written. We do not speak that language anymore, so who can teach us? Must have an eternal authority - the Church.

Conclusion - truth was revealed via Jesus the Christ and passed on through His Church.
WANT TRUTH - GO TO THE SOURCE - THE CHURCH JESUS ESTABLISHED!!

 

[Happy_B]

"Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. ” John 3:3 and 3:5

Of course, ‘born of water’ - that’s why we are being baptised; ‘and the Spririt’ - thats why we have Holy communion and Confirmation.

Please don’t forget that had there been no catholic church (theoretically), there would have been no protestant churches either. Everything you brothers protestants have you have thanks to the catholic church. The only thing is that you don’t have the fulness in your denominations which are all so different. Catholic church has been united for 2 thousand years and stands still firmly. It’s because the Holy Spirit is with Her from the beginning. And He promised to stay with her till the end - simple:thumbsup:

 

[Topaz1128]

Thank you and others who have responded. I agree with you that “the fullness of his relevation is the Person of Jesus Christ.” And it is the love of Christ (believing in Him) that is the cornerstone of worshiping in spirit and in truth.

I don’t know why God does what He does, but I do know it is right. Certainly millions have come to know Christ through the teaching of the Catholic Church. Likewise, many have come to know Christ through Graham and other Protestant ministries. Perhaps God sees no need to “convert” one method over to the other, because they both are spreading the Gospel and that is the ultimate command of Christ to all of us.

Brent