Why doesn't the Bible say that Mary was sinless?

[LilyM]

If the Trinity was presented in a Biblical court of law it would get a unanimous decision to say its true. There is plently of Biblical evidence for the Trinity. BTW JW’s don’t have the Holy Spirit so its hardly suprising that they don’t know the truth of the Trinity.

Now if the issue of Mary being sinless was presented in a Biblical court of law it would be dismissed on the grounds that there is no biblical evidence for this idea.

Its not a question of rights but “Truth”.

.

Oops, someone better tell the Oneness Pentecostals and JWs that it’d get a unanimous vote. Not to mention the Jews, who having compiled the OT surely should get a vote in your ‘Biblical Court’ as well

But surely the determining vote should go to the Church that determined the very canon of the Bible itself - the Catholic Church - since Catholics wrote the NT and determined which books were scripture surely we should have determining say in how it’s interpreted?

Fact is for 2000 years a huge majority of Christians have believed Mary was sinless. A majority (not unanimous) vote is good enough to convince you of the truth of the Trinity, not to mention the nature of Christ, the Canon of the Bible and a whole host of other theological points on every single one of which at least some Christians have disagreed, it should be good enough for this.

 

[JustaServant]

Why is it so important to fundamentalists for Mary to have sinned?

 

[StevenFrancis]

Why didn’t God say in His Word that Mary is sinless?

Surely if Mary was sinless God would have made sure that this fact was recorded in His Word.

Luke 1:

26 And in the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God into a city of Galilee, called Nazareth, 27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. 28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. 29 Who having heard, was troubled at his saying, and thought with herself what manner of salutation this should be. 30 And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.

31 Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the most High; and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father; and he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever. 33 And of his kingdom there shall be no end. 34 And Mary said to the angel: How shall this be done, because I know not man? 35 And the angel answering, said to her: The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the most High shall overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

36 And behold thy cousin Elizabeth, she also hath conceived a son in her old age; and this is the sixth month with her that is called barren: 37 Because no word shall be impossible with God. 38 And Mary said: Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it done to me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her. 39 And Mary rising up in those days, went into the hill country with haste into a city of Juda. 40 And she entered into the house of Zachary, and saluted Elizabeth.

41 And it came to pass, that when Elizabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the infant leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: 42 And she cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. 43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For behold as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy. 45 And blessed art thou that hast believed, because those things shall be accomplished that were spoken to thee by the Lord.

46 And Mary said: My soul doth magnify the Lord. 47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. 48 Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. 49 Because he that is mighty, hath done great things to me; and holy is his name. 50 And his mercy is from generation unto generations, to them that fear him.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

Im just trying to find out if the teaching that Mary is sinless is in the Bible and if it isn’t, why not.

All the major issues are addressed in Gods written Word so why not the issue of Mary & her supposed sinlessness.

BTW I don’t want this thread diverted/hi-jacked by a “Trinity” debate, because anyone who seriously studies Gods Word can clearly see the truth of the Trinity in the Scriptures.

It is taught in the Bible. Next question.

CDL

 

[GregoryPalamas]

How do you know this?

Have you spoken to every Christian in the world who lived prior to 1520? Didn’t think so.

Show one who taught conversely. The ball is in your court. One cannot argue convincingly from silence.

CDL

 

[bcm6987]

One gets to Heaven by the Grace of God. One can only be totally filled with the Grace of God if they are sinless (not separated from God) as sin removes the person from God. The Bible does say that Mary was sinless. The Angel of God appeared to Mary and said “Hail, full of Grace, the Lord is with you.” The Catholic understanding of Grace differs greatly with most of our separated bretheren’s understanding of Grace. This is why many of our separated brothers and sisters don’t understand our devotion to our Blessed Mother.
B. C. Moore

 

[Harmony1988]

We need to be clear about what is being debated here. If you do not accept the Church’s teaching and I do accept the Church’s teaching, what we really are debating is not about Mary but about how the Bible should be interpreted.

I accept the Church’s teaching that Mary is and was without sin. You may not agree with this.

In that case you are basing your arguments on “Scripture Only” theology, which is a Protestant doctrine that I do not accept.

We could talk circles and circles about what the Bible says or does not say but the essential disagreement is: Does the Church have the authority to state that “Mary is Sinless” even if the Bible does not specifically say so? My answer is, “Yes, the Church has this authority.” Your answer may be “No, the Church does not have this authority.”

I think that this is the true nature of this particular debate.

The Bible states clearly that mary was without sin. ‘hail, full of grace’

 

[clmowry]

Why is it so important to fundamentalists for Mary to have sinned?

It is not.

It is important to them to try to show that the Catholic Church is wrong about something, anything at all.

Therefore, they pick on articles of the faith that cannot be “explicitly” “proven” from scripture with which they can disagree without abandoning “mere Christianity” in order to justify their “right” to redefine the faith in any way they see fit.

Many a “reasonable” fundamentalist will even acknowledge that it would be “fitting” for Mary to be sinless, but still deny that she is so nonetheless.

If the Church had not formally defined the dogma, they would find no cause to attack Jesus’ mother.

Chuck

 

[sandusky]

GregoryPalamas:

One cannot argue convincingly from silence.

I asked a question; how is asking a question arguing from silence?

GregoryPalamas:

Show one who taught conversely. The ball is in your court.

Ott states that, “…individual Greek Fathers (Origen, Basil, John Chrysostom, Cyril of Alexandria) taught that Mary suffered from venial personal faults, such as ambition and vanity…”
(Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma (Rockford: Ill, Tan Books, 1974). 203 (are ambition and vanity sins?). The Catholic Encyclopedia states that as well, all the while attributing error to those Fathers who taught that. Ott also states, “Neither the Greek nor the Latin Fathers explicitly teach the Immaculate Conception of Mary,” (Ibid, 203).

Schaff also mentions different opposition to the sinlessness and IC of Mary.

 

[maryj]

Luke 1:

46 And Mary said: My soul doth magnify the Lord. 47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. 48 Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. 49 Because he that is mighty, hath done great things to me; and holy is his name. 50 And his mercy is from generation unto generations, to them that fear him.

And there you go, All generations shall call me blessed!!!
Who is being biblical now, the catholic church, or those who deny her?? Thanks for the posting.

 

[emeraldisle]

And so I ask for the third time. Do you know what the definition of “enmity” is? Do you deny that Gen 3:15 states that God has put enmity between the woman who shall bear the Messiah and the serpent? I shall wait patiently for your answer, if you will answer.

and for the second time I’m explaining to you that Gen 3:15 refers to the then promised Messiah who was going to crush satan. So the idea that Gen 3:15 says Mary is sinless is ridiculous.

 

[Franciscan]

and for the second time I’m explaining to you that Gen 3:15 refers to the then promised Messiah who was going to crush satan. So the idea that Gen 3:15 says Mary is sinless is ridiculous.

Whose the woman in Gn 3:15?

 

[emeraldisle]

And yet again emerlardisle ignores my post regarding the translation of Luke 1:28.

I have already explained a number of times that the following verse is the correct translation and it says absolutely nothing about Mary being sinless;

And having come in, the angel said to her, “Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women!”
Luke 1:28

 

[Ignatius]

Why didn’t God say in His Word that Mary is sinless?.

Because, as the bible itself tells us, not everything is in the bible. The bible doesn’t tell us that the bible is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth, it tells us that The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth.

 

[emeraldisle]

Why is it so important to fundamentalists for Mary to have sinned?

It’s so important to find out what God says in His Word, His truth is important. What man says is irrelevant.

BTW fundamentalist re Christianity means a Christian who believes in the fundamentals of their faith. I wish all Christians believed in the fundamentals of the true faith as given in Gods infallible written Word.

 

[emeraldisle]

Because, as the bible itself tells us, not everything is in the bible. The bible doesn’t tell us that the bible is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth, it tells us that The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth.

The Bible is Gods infallible written Word and when God doesn’t say in His infallible written Word that Mary was sinless, then I definitely believe God.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

The Bible is Gods infallible written Word and when God doesn’t say in His infallible written Word that Mary was sinless, then I definitely believe God.

Thank you for your infallible opinion, Esmeralda.

CDL

 

[bookgirl32]

Hey EI, you still haven’t showed me the evidence from scripture that I asked you for.

 

[Sean_Boyle]

I have already explained a number of times that the following verse is the correct translation and it says absolutely nothing about Mary being sinless;

And having come in, the angel said to her, “Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women!”
Luke 1:28

The bible is much clearer on this subject when you use a version that has the correct translations in it. “Hail Full of Grace” is the correct wording. Your version is a little off.

Next question…

 

[LilyM]

The Bible is Gods infallible written Word and when God doesn’t say in His infallible written Word that Mary was sinless, then I definitely believe God.

What part of ‘just because it’s not spelled out in words of two syllables or less in the Bible doesn’t mean it’s not true or unnecessary’ do you not understand?

Where in the Bible is the canon spelled out? Where in the bible does it say how to determine which scriptures are inspired and which aren’t? Where in, say, Song of Songs or Jude’s epistle does it say ‘this book (I mean the individual book, not scripture as a whole) is written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, is God’s own word, and necessary for your salvation, and must be included alongside the other books of Holy Scripture’? Yet you believe they are, do you not?

You would readily concede, I hope, that it is certainly necessary for our faith to believe that the canon of the New Testament as passed down to us contains the correct, inspired writings, all the ones that were meant to be included and none of the ones that aren’t. But we don’t get THAT belief from the Bible itself, rather we get it entirely from extra-biblical sources.