Why doesn't the Bible say that Mary was sinless?

[emeraldisle]

Why didn’t God say in His Word that Mary is sinless?

Surely if Mary was sinless God would have made sure that this fact was recorded in His Word.

 

[VociMike]

Why didn’t God say in His Word that Mary is sinless?

Surely if Mary was sinless God would have made sure that this fact was recorded in His Word.

First off, “His Word” is Jesus Christ, the Logos.

Now, why “surely”? What leads you to believe that every important thing that God wanted to tell us would be recorded in Scripture? Why, further, isn’t it enough that he recorded the fact of Mary’s sinlessness in the deposit of faith that he gave to His Church, which has guarded it and passed it down without error throughout the generations?

You need to examine your assumptions, because they are not part of the Christian faith given to the apostles.

 

[Franciscan]

Why didn’t God say in His Word that Mary is sinless?

Surely if Mary was sinless God would have made sure that this fact was recorded in His Word.

He did…

“Hail, Full of grace”.

grace is the oppostite of sin. To be full of grace is to be without sin.

To the serpent he said, “I will put enmity between you and the woman”

The woman whose offspring would crush the serpents head is Mary.

So enmity exists between Mary and the Serpent(devil).
Enmity means ‘total opposition’.

One is full of grace the other full of sin.
One is the epidomy of sinlessness the other the epidomy of sinfullness.

 

[HelenRose]

What else can be said? Mary was full of Grace. There was no room for sin.

 

[emeraldisle]

He did…

“Hail, Full of grace”.

grace is the oppostite of sin. To be full of grace is to be without sin.

To the serpent he said, “I will put enmity between you and the woman”

The woman whose offspring would crush the serpents head is Mary.

So enmity exists between Mary and the Serpent(devil).
Enmity means ‘total opposition’.

One is full of grace the other full of sin.
One is the epidomy of sinlessness the other the epidomy of sinfullness.

Its better if you give the Bible references and version so it’s possible to check if what your saying is correct.

Also your response proves the point that the Bible doesn’t say that Mary is sinless and so one has to try and make a vague interpretation of the Bible to support the view that Mary is sinless.

Also the Bible records all the major issues and the idea the Mary is sinless is a major issue and one which would definitely be mentioned in Gods Word if it were true.

 

[VociMike]

Also the Bible records all the major issues and the idea the Mary is sinless is a major issue and one which would definitely be mentioned in Gods Word if it were true.

Anybody can claim anything, but there is not one shred of proof that this is actually true, or that Christ actually set up his Church along such a model.

The reality is, rather, that when people chose to reject the authority of the Church they invented this claim that anything of importance for the faith was recorded in Scripture.

If you want to hear what God is saying to us, listen to his Church. What is so hard about that concept?

 

[bookgirl32]

Its better if you give the Bible references and version so it’s possible to check if what your saying is correct.

Also your response proves the point that the Bible doesn’t say that Mary is sinless and so one has to try and make a vague interpretation of the Bible to support the view that Mary is sinless.

Also the Bible records all the major issues and the idea the Mary is sinless is a major issue and one which would definitely be mentioned in Gods Word if it were true.

Check out VociMike’s thread on the Trinity. And while you’re at it, if the Bible records “all the major issues”, tell me where it records the Trinity.

 

[HelenRose]

Its better if you give the Bible references and version so it’s possible to check if what your saying is correct.

Also your response proves the point that the Bible doesn’t say that Mary is sinless and so one has to try and make a vague interpretation of the Bible to support the view that Mary is sinless.

Also the Bible records all the major issues and the idea the Mary is sinless is a major issue and one which would definitely be mentioned in Gods Word if it were true.

We need to be clear about what is being debated here. If you do not accept the Church’s teaching and I do accept the Church’s teaching, what we really are debating is not about Mary but about how the Bible should be interpreted.

I accept the Church’s teaching that Mary is and was without sin. You may not agree with this.

In that case you are basing your arguments on “Scripture Only” theology, which is a Protestant doctrine that I do not accept.

We could talk circles and circles about what the Bible says or does not say but the essential disagreement is: Does the Church have the authority to state that “Mary is Sinless” even if the Bible does not specifically say so? My answer is, “Yes, the Church has this authority.” Your answer may be “No, the Church does not have this authority.”

I think that this is the true nature of this particular debate.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Summarizing all the other good points here.

1. The Trinity is deduced from Scripture (and for that matter the nature of the Incarnation, and even faulty things like pre-trib rapture)
2. A real easy answer could be “Because not all Revelation was ever meant to be contained only in Scripture.” That alone should completely satisfy your question.
3. While Luke 1:28 is not by itself a “proof-text” it is along with all the other exhaustive treatments of Mary from Genesis all the way to Revelation.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Why didn’t God say in His Word that Mary is sinless?

Surely if Mary was sinless God would have made sure that this fact was recorded in His Word.

It is in His Word! It’s just not in His written word. Maybe God wanted somethings to be left for the Church to teach, Christianity is NOT a self-study religion. We do not “discover” these things on our own, we are presented them by the Church. Including the Written Scriptures, which also came to us through the Church.

 

[ewilhelm]

Also the Bible records all the major issues and the idea the Mary is sinless is a major issue and one which would definitely be mentioned in Gods Word if it were true.

This Bible says to go the the Church not the Bible and it also says that the pillar of truth is the Church…not the Bible. Oh you know what else it says…that you should not rely on your own interpretation of Scripture…hmmmm I wonder why??
Interesting isn’t it:
So ask yourself what Church is that??

 

[Rolltide]

Its better if you give the Bible references and version so it’s possible to check if what your saying is correct.

Please check out Luke 1:28. It is not a proof text by any means, but it is the most important scriptural reference for the Immaculate Conception. The following is from the Ignatius Catholic Study Bible: The Gospel of Luke by Scott Hahn and Curtis Mitch:

Full of grace: This is the only biblical instance where an angel addresses someone by a title instead of a personal name. Two considerations help to clarify its meaning. (1) The expression full of grace is rooted in Catholic tradition and traced to St. Jerome’s translation of this verse in the Latin Vulgate. Although fundamentally accurate, it lacks some of the depth of the Greek original. Luke could have described her with the words full of grace (Gk. pleres charitos) as he did of Stephen in Acts 6:8, yet here he uses a different expression (Gk. kecharitomene) that is even more revealing than the traditional rendering. It indicates that God has already “graced” Mary previous to this point, making her a vessel who “has been” and “is now” filled with divine life. (2) Alternate translations like “favored one” or “highly favored” are possible but inadequate. Because of the unparalleled role that Mary accepts at this turning point in salvation history, the best translation is the most exalted one. For God endowed Mary with an abundance of grace to prepare her for the vocation of divine motherhood and to make her a sterling example of Christian holiness (CCC 490-93, 722).

• Gabriel’s declaration points in the direction of Mary’s Immaculate Conception. According to Pope Pius IX’s 1854 definition Ineffabilis Deus, Luke’s Annunciation narrative is an important indicator of Mary’s lifelong holiness. God is her “Savior” (1:47) in the most perfect way possible: he sanctified Mary in the first instance of her conception and preserved her entirely from sin and even from the inclination toward sin that we experience.

You may also want to examine the Catholic idea of Mary as the New Ark of the Covenant. Just as the original Ark contained the word of God under the Old Covenant, so Mary physically contained the literal Word, Jesus Christ, within her. As such, she was specially blessed.

Also your response proves the point that the Bible doesn’t say that Mary is sinless and so one has to try and make a vague interpretation of the Bible to support the view that Mary is sinless.

The Bible is also “so vague” on the Trinity, that the early church had a MASSIVE problem with Arianism, the belief that there was no Trinity and that Jesus was only the adopted Son of God. It took the Council of Nicea to eventually solve this issue, which was widely believed.

Also the Bible records all the major issues and the idea the Mary is sinless is a major issue and one which would definitely be mentioned in Gods Word if it were true.

As seen above, Catholics definitely believe that it’s referred to in the Bible.

 

[emeraldisle]

We need to be clear about what is being debated here. If you do not accept the Church’s teaching and I do accept the Church’s teaching, what we really are debating is not about Mary but about how the Bible should be interpreted.

I accept the Church’s teaching that Mary is and was without sin. You may not agree with this.

In that case you are basing your arguments on “Scripture Only” theology, which is a Protestant doctrine that I do not accept.

We could talk circles and circles about what the Bible says or does not say but the essential disagreement is: Does the Church have the authority to state that “Mary is Sinless” even if the Bible does not specifically say so? My answer is, “Yes, the Church has this authority.” Your answer may be “No, the Church does not have this authority.”

I think that this is the true nature of this particular debate.

Im just trying to find out if the teaching that Mary is sinless is in the Bible and if it isn’t, why not.

All the major issues are addressed in Gods written Word so why not the issue of Mary & her supposed sinlessness.

BTW I don’t want this thread diverted/hi-jacked by a “Trinity” debate, because anyone who seriously studies Gods Word can clearly see the truth of the Trinity in the Scriptures.

 

[Rolltide]

BTW I don’t want this thread diverted/hi-jacked by a “Trinity” debate, because anyone who seriously studies Gods Word can clearly see the truth of the Trinity in the Scriptures.

I realize that I mentioned this very thing above, but my point was simply that if something as “clear” as the Trinity could be seriously denied by a huge portion of the early church, then even those who “seriously study God’s Word” might come to a different interpretation about the Immaculate Conception.

This is why the Catholic Church doesn’t believe in Sola Scriptura, by the way…

 

[emeraldisle]

Please check out Luke 1:28. It is not a proof text by any means, but it is the most important scriptural reference for the Immaculate Conception. The following is from the Ignatius Catholic Study Bible: The Gospel of Luke by Scott Hahn and Curtis Mitch:

Full of grace: This is the only biblical instance where an angel addresses someone by a title instead of a personal name. Two considerations help to clarify its meaning. (1) The expression full of grace is rooted in Catholic tradition and traced to St. Jerome’s translation of this verse in the Latin Vulgate. Although fundamentally accurate, it lacks some of the depth of the Greek original. Luke could have described her with the words full of grace (Gk. pleres charitos) as he did of Stephen in Acts 6:8, yet here he uses a different expression (Gk. kecharitomene) that is even more revealing than the traditional rendering. It indicates that God has already “graced” Mary previous to this point, making her a vessel who “has been” and “is now” filled with divine life. (2) Alternate translations like “favored one” or “highly favored” are possible but inadequate. Because of the unparalleled role that Mary accepts at this turning point in salvation history, the best translation is the most exalted one. For God endowed Mary with an abundance of grace to prepare her for the vocation of divine motherhood and to make her a sterling example of Christian holiness (CCC 490-93, 722).

• Gabriel’s declaration points in the direction of Mary’s Immaculate Conception. According to Pope Pius IX’s 1854 definition Ineffabilis Deus, Luke’s Annunciation narrative is an important indicator of Mary’s lifelong holiness. God is her “Savior” (1:47) in the most perfect way possible: he sanctified Mary in the first instance of her conception and preserved her entirely from sin and even from the inclination toward sin that we experience.

You may also want to examine the Catholic idea of Mary as the New Ark of the Covenant. Just as the original Ark contained the word of God under the Old Covenant, so Mary physically contained the literal Word, Jesus Christ, within her. As such, she was specially blessed.

And having come in, the angel said to her, “Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women!

Luke 1:28 NKJV

I can’t see any reference in this verse to Mary being sinless.

Also the Bible speaks about people who did outstanding things, so why is there no comments about Mary being sinless. I mean the Bible clearly tells us that Jesus was sinless but it doesn’t say a single thing about Mary being sinless, Why?​

 

[VociMike]

Im just trying to find out if the teaching that Mary is sinless is in the Bible and if it isn’t, why not.

All the major issues are addressed in Gods written Word so why not the issue of Mary & her supposed sinlessness.

And when verses were pointed out to you that can be taken to confirm her sinlessness you rejected them outright.

Let me ask you a counter-question. Why did every Christian in the world believe in Mary’s sinlessness before 1520? Explain how every Christian in the world got it wrong.

 

[sandusky]

Why didn’t God say in His Word that Mary is sinless?

Surely if Mary was sinless God would have made sure that this fact was recorded in His Word.

There is no Scriptural proof for the IC.

The Catholic Encyclopedia, under the heading, Proof from Scripture, states,“No direct or categorical and stringent proof of the dogma can be brought forward from Scripture.”**

 

[sandusky]

Let me ask you a counter-question. Why did every Christian in the world believe in Mary’s sinlessness before 1520? Explain how every Christian in the world got it wrong.

How do you know this?

Have you spoken to every Christian in the world who lived prior to 1520? Didn’t think so.

 

[VociMike]

How do you know this?

Have you spoken to every Christian in the world who lived prior to 1520? Didn’t think so.

If you have other evidence, feel free to present it. Really though, at best you will be able to reduce 100% to, say, 99.999%. Not much of a victory.

Maybe more importantly, what bishops taught in 1520 that Mary was not sinless?

 

[Rolltide]

And having come in, the angel said to her, “Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women!

Luke 1:28 NKJV

Please reread the quote that I provided above as to why both “highly favored one” AND “full of grace” are insufficient translations of kecharitomene, the original Greek word.

I can’t see any reference in this verse to Mary being sinless.

Well, that’s because of the translation issue. Amazing what a difference a single word can make. In the original Greek, it is far more clear. In any case, the Catholic Church doesn’t rely just on the Bible, but also on Sacred Tradition. (The basic issue here is really Sola Scriptura, because Catholics are allowed to accept things that have been handed down through tradition that do not conflict with the Bible. Protestants would not accept that.)

Also the Bible speaks about people who did outstanding things, so why is there no comments about Mary being sinless. I mean the Bible clearly tells us that Jesus was sinless but it doesn’t say a single thing about Mary being sinless, Why?​

Again, I would argue that it does. By your OWN definition of Sola Scriptura, I can interpret the Bible however I want. I clearly see this in the Bible. You do not. (Thus, you begin to see the flaw in Sola Scriptura…)