Why doesn't the Bible say that Mary was sinless?

[jmcrae]

Sorry, let me clarify, There is Zero evidence that ANYONE for the first 200 years after the resurrection mentioned any RC Marian or papal doctrines.

St. Justin Martyr died in 180 AD, and his writings are absolutely packed with references to Marian doctrine. This is well within your “200 years” limit.

 

[JoeyWarren]

Therefore, back to your inconsistency, if you are to be consistent in your use of pas, you must argue that God really doesn’t want all men to be saved.
Which is it Joey?

The answer is very easy

Including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole: - all (manner of, means) alway (-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no (-thing), X throughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.

So IMHO the context is as follows;

Who will have **many **men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

If I have to err, I will err on the side of caution.

For I do know that the extreme of pas is hapas which means “Every Single One without Exception” The usage of pas is varied greatly in scripture.

And I do know that the “Emergent Church” movement and the “New Age” movements use that verse to make the claim that everyone will be saved without exception. The Goats will be placed in a lesser place in Heaven and the Sheep will be placed in a greater place in Heaven. Personal Interpretation is led to this belief.

So IMHO I do not believe any use of pas in the "all’ means every single item or person. I believe it means every when the word “every” is used.

The Problem is that the Ancient Greek does not posess a word that directly means “Many” or “Most” This web site can verify this information: kypros.org/cgi-bin/lexicon

 

[Enoch]

St. Justin Martyr died in 180 AD, and his writings are absolutely packed with references to Marian doctrine. This is well within your “200 years” limit.

Also, a doctrine in no way indicates a “new” belief. The doctrines declared by the Church reaffirm what she has always believed to be true, usually in response to a heresy against Christ.

 

[Sean_Boyle]

At least the importance is placed on all scripture in Christ’s Church instead of the falacy that Paul alone has all or the most important “truth”.

One day maybe you’ll be granted the grace to get it…

 

[JoeyWarren]

At least the importance is placed on all scripture in Christ’s Church instead of the falacy that Paul alone has all or the most important “truth”.

One day maybe you’ll be granted the grace to get it…

**Or Sandusky alone has all the or the most important “truth” **

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

The bible does not say Mary was sinless explicitly, but you can infer that she was based upon all the accounts we have of angels and men. Clearly, the tone and langauge used towads Blessed Mother is very different. In any event, the bible is not a teaching on Mary, but Christ. And Christ established the Church which teaches all truth. The real reason why non-Apostolic Christians have a hard time with this teaching is because they do not have the Church, be it schismatic or not.

Is it a by chance that the overwhelming majority of APOSTOLIC churches will confess that Mary never sinner in her life? I think not, because, at least, they have the Sacraments, Bishops, valid Priests, Tradition of the Church, etc. Protestants do not have these essentials. Even now, there is a movement by protestants, mainly evengelicals, to change the rite of baptism, and do some of “offering” to God like what the mother of Samuel did. It looks very bleak for them, without even a valid baptism…

 

[emeraldisle]

No, I want an answer, period. I’ll give it to you in a yes or no form. Does the Bible, anywhere, state that the Scriptures are the ONLY form of divine revelation, or that that are to be taken as divine revelation ALONE? Yes, or no?

This is like you asking me does the Bible state the word “Trinity”, yes or no?

I’ve already answered your question from the Scripture, see the following;

Yes I’m sure you have already been told to read 2 Tim 3:16-17.

Remember the Scriptures is Gods written Word, now if you want to say Gods Word isn’t sufficient for all we need in the Christian life then you must believe in a very small God.

.

 

[justinthemartyr]

Why didn’t God say in His Word the word “Trinity”?
Why didn’t God say in His Word to just accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior in order to be saved?
Why didn’t God mention in His Word reciting the “Sinners Prayer”?
Why didn’t God mention in His Word altar calls?
Why didn’t God say in His Word you must be baptized by full immersion?
Why didn’t God say in His Word all sins are equal in gravity?
Why didn’t God say in His Word we are saved by faith alone?
Why didn’t God say in His Word that the Bible is the sole rule of faith?
Why didn’t God say in His Word Christ paid the full penalty of sin?
Why didn’t God say in His Word individuals can privately interpret Scripture accurately?
Why didn’t God say in His Word “Once saved always saved”
Why didn’t God say in His Word Baptism is symbolic and just a public declaration of faith?
Why didn’t God mention in His Word a pre-tribulation rapture?
Why didn’t God say in His Word we should go to church on Sunday?
Why didn’t God say in His Word we should celebrate the Lord’s birth?
Why didn’t God say in His Word we should celebrate the Lord’s resurrection?

Surely if this was true God would have made sure these facts were recorded in His Word.

amen amen, I agree!

 

[emeraldisle]

Once again, I’m confused by the logic that you are using.

1. God’s written word (The Bible) tells us that Jesus was sinless
2. You belive what God says in his written Word! [sic]

You want to think that Mary had sin.

where does it say in God’s written word that MARY had sin?

Mary like all of humanity comes from Adam,

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Rom 5:12

Mary is part of sinful humanity.

You want to think that Mary had sin.

No, I just believe what Gods says about Mary and about all mankind;

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Rom 5:12

You still haven’t posted what difference it makes, why you want Mary to have sinned, or what sin(s) you want Mary to have committed

Its not about what I want but its about what Gods says is in His written Word. Its about knowing Gods truth and this is found in His written Word.

.

 

[justinthemartyr]

Mary like all of humanity comes from Adam,

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Rom 5:12

Mary is part of sinful humanity.

No, I just believe what Gods says about Mary and about all mankind;

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Rom 5:12

Its not about what I want but its about what Gods says is in His written Word. Its about knowing Gods truth and this is found in His written Word.

.

if you believe this, then you must also believe that when God said he would kill ALL men on earth through the flood, he killed ALL men right?

well He did not kill ALL men, he spared Moses and his wife, their three sons and their three wives. 8 in all.

evidently, the use of the term ALL in scripture does not necessarily mean a literal sense of the term “ALL”. As pointed out in the case of God’s words as they pertain to all mankind in the flood. therefore they do not pertain to all of mankind in the area of sin.

 

[Sean_Boyle]

This is like you asking me does the Bible state the word “Trinity”, yes or no?

I’ve already answered your question from the Scripture, see the following;
.

Allow me to help you here…

It’s tough to understand the phase “yes or no answer” when refering to a question isn’ it. Simple answers though, you have a 50% chance of being right if you just guess. The answer to both is “no”.

Sorry if that sinks your personal theology.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

well He did not kill ALL men, he spared Moses and his wife, their three sons and their three wives. 8 in all.

You mean Noah, right?

 

[kaycee]

Also, a doctrine in no way indicates a “new” belief. The doctrines declared by the Church reaffirm what she has always believed to be true, usually in response to a heresy against Christ.

Doctrines that are required of the faithful for salvation do not appear out of thin air after hundreds or a thousand years.

Repeated assertions with zero evidence does not make something true.

 

[Enoch]

Doctrines that are required of the faithful for salvation do not appear out of thin air after hundreds or a thousand years.

Repeated assertions with zero evidence does not make something true.

Examples?

 

[bookgirl32]

This is like you asking me does the Bible state the word “Trinity”, yes or no?

Okay, well add that you your list of yes or no questions:

Does the Bible anywhere claim itself to be our sole rule of faith?
Does the Bible state the word Trinity?

 

[LilyM]

Doctrines that are required of the faithful for salvation do not appear out of thin air after hundreds or a thousand years.

Repeated assertions with zero evidence does not make something true.

That’s great, because not one of the doctrines of the Catholic Church appeared from thin air either - all were well debated and discussed for hundreds of years, referenced by plenty of ECFs and often at least implicitly supported by scripture before being declared

Most of them have a lot more solid backing from ECFs as well as scripture than the idea of sola scriptura for one.

 

[JoeyWarren]

Yes I’m sure you have already been told to read 2 Tim 3:16-17.

Remember the Scriptures is Gods written Word, now if you want to say Gods Word isn’t sufficient for all we need in the Christian life then you must believe in a very small God.

Okay let’s take this one step at a time look at this with the proper historical and chronological context.

2 Tim 3: 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Okay at the very moment in time that Paul was actually writing this, the only scripture that existed and was considered to be given by inspiration of God are the books of the Old Testament exclusively. Latter Timothy would be sitting there reading this letter he had just received from Paul knowing that Paul would be referring to the only scripture Timothy knew about, that being the Old Testament in it’s entirety.

Secondly scripture is profitable. Primary definition of the greek word used is “Useful”

2 Tim 3: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The Key word here is “MAY”. There is no guarantee. If there was a guarantee it would have been written as such:

That the man of God is made perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Something along those line…

 

[sandusky]

if you believe this, then you must also believe that when God said he would kill ALL men on earth through the flood, he killed ALL men right?

well He did not kill ALL men, he spared Moses and his wife, their three sons and their three wives. 8 in all.

evidently, the use of the term ALL in scripture does not necessarily mean a literal sense of the term “ALL”. As pointed out in the case of God’s words as they pertain to all mankind in the flood. therefore they do not pertain to all of mankind in the area of sin.

That’s not what the text says, be careful!

Here, read your own Catholic Douay-Rheims Bible.

The Greek word in question, pas does not appear in that passage in the Septuagint.

 

[sandusky]

The answer is very easy

Including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole: - all (manner of, means) alway (-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no (-thing), X throughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.

So IMHO the context is as follows;

If I have to err, I will err on the side of caution.

For I do know that the extreme of pas is hapas which means “Every Single One without Exception” The usage of pas is varied greatly in scripture.

And I do know that the “Emergent Church” movement and the “New Age” movements use that verse to make the claim that everyone will be saved without exception. The Goats will be placed in a lesser place in Heaven and the Sheep will be placed in a greater place in Heaven. Personal Interpretation is led to this belief.

So IMHO I do not believe any use of pas in the "all’ means every single item or person. I believe it means every when the word “every” is used.

The Problem is that the Ancient Greek does not posess a word that directly means “Many” or “Most” This web site can verify this information: kypros.org/cgi-bin/lexicon

You’re consistent within your argument, Joey; I hope it’s not just to prove that you are.

The whole of Scripture is God’s call for men to repent, and come to Him, from Cain in Genesis, right on through.

In keeping with the whole of Scripture, the desire of God spoken of in 1 Tim is consistent with His desire for every single person to be saved.

(Also, the Greek word for many does exist, as the link you provided indicates, and Paul used that word often; he had it at his disposal for 1 Tim 2:4, but chose “pas” instead. The word translated many is used more than 100 times in the NT).

 

[Sean_Boyle]

Doctrines that are required of the faithful for salvation do not appear out of thin air after hundreds or a thousand years.

Repeated assertions with zero evidence does not make something true.

Another nail in the coffin for “faith alone”.

Of course that personal theology was buried 400 years ago when the first guy thought it up.