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mercygate
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Right.
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Mickey
Guest
I am always learning new things here!
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justasking4
Guest
There is no evidence that this is the case. Scripture is all we know of her and it never mentions this kind of thing. Jesus in the instances where He deals directly with His mother never hints at such a thing.
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emeraldisle
Guest
For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 1 Cor 15:3-4
Now according to the Scriptures Mary was to be a virgin not a sinless virgin.
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Isa 7:14
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According to the Scriptures all of humanity is sinful and Mary is part of sinful humanity.
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Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Rom 5:12
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jmcrae
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Of which sins, in particular, do you accuse her? Was she a thief? An adultress? An idoloter? Perhaps a murderer?
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emeraldisle
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The question of this tread is “Why doesn’t the Bible say that Mary was sinless?”. So how are the following verses of Scripture out of context?
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If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. 1 John 1:8-10*
I don’t think these verses indicate that a human being can be sinless. Was Mary a human being?
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emeraldisle
Guest
Are you trying to tempt me to go beyond what God says in His written Word?Of which sins, in particular, do you accuse her? Was she a thief? An adultress? An idoloter? Perhaps a murderer?
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mercygate
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Huh? I’m having trouble tracking you here. What does 1 Cor 15:3-4 have to do with Our Lady?
According to the Scriptures all of humanity is sinful and Mary is part of sinful humanity.
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Rom 5:12.*Yes, dear. We understand your interpretation.
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JoeyWarren
Guest
**1. Strong’s Definition for the word : “all”
Consider the Greek. Romans 3:23 and 5:12, (“all have sinned”) use the Greek word “pantes” for “all.”
“Pantes” is a derivative of “pas,” which has the following meaning, according to Strong’s Lexicon:
3956 pas { pas} . . .
GK - 4246 { pa`” }
1) individually
1a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
2) collectively
2a) some of all types
“… the whole world has gone after him” [John 12:19 ] Did all the world go after Christ?
“then went all Judea, and were baptized of him in Jordan.” [Matt. 3: 5-6] Was all Judea, or all Jerusalem, baptized in Jordan?
“Ye are of God, little children”, and the whole world lieth in the wicked one”. [1 John 5:19] Does the whole world there mean everybody?
The words “world” and “all” are used in some seven or eight senses in Scripture, and it is very rarely the “all” means all persons, taken individually. The words are generally used to signify that Christ has redeemed some of all sorts – some Jews, some Gentiles, some rich, some poor, and has not restricted His redemption to either Jew or Gentile …
C.H. Spurgeon from a sermon on Particular Redemption
Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc…) 1995.
Consider the Greek. Romans 3:23 and 5:12, (“all have sinned”) use the Greek word “pantes” for “all.”
“Pantes” is a derivative of “pas,” which has the following meaning, according to Strong’s Lexicon:
3956 pas { pas} . . .
GK - 4246 { pa`” }
1) individually
1a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
2) collectively
2a) some of all types
“… the whole world has gone after him” [John 12:19 ] Did all the world go after Christ?
“then went all Judea, and were baptized of him in Jordan.” [Matt. 3: 5-6] Was all Judea, or all Jerusalem, baptized in Jordan?
“Ye are of God, little children”, and the whole world lieth in the wicked one”. [1 John 5:19] Does the whole world there mean everybody?
The words “world” and “all” are used in some seven or eight senses in Scripture, and it is very rarely the “all” means all persons, taken individually. The words are generally used to signify that Christ has redeemed some of all sorts – some Jews, some Gentiles, some rich, some poor, and has not restricted His redemption to either Jew or Gentile …
C.H. Spurgeon from a sermon on Particular Redemption
Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc…) 1995.
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mercygate
Guest
That’s it! I knew I “knew” that from somewhere in my Protestant past! THANK you!
Lord: Thank you for Strong!
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mercygate
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Hey gang, this thread is 21 posts over the limit. See you on a new incarnation of this thread?
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justasking4
Guest
She was aware of her need of a Savior which means she saw herself as a sinner. See Luke 1:47.Of which sins, in particular, do you accuse her? Was she a thief? An adultress? An idoloter? Perhaps a murderer?
Also some influencial men in the early church saw her as a sinner.
Augustine Bishop of Hippo “Whatever flesh of sin Jesus took, He took of the flesh of the sin of his mother. Jesus did not partake of sin, but took of his mother, which came under the judgment of sin.”
Augustine “ He, Christ alone, being made man but remaining God never had any sin, nor did he take of the flesh of sin. Though He took flesh of the sin of his mother.”
Pope innocent the third (1216 a.d.) “She (Eve) was produced without sin, but she brought forth in sin, she (Mary) was produced in sin, but she brought forth without sin.” ( De festo Assump., sermon 2)
Pope Leo 1 (440 a.d.) “The Lord Jesus Christ alone among the sons of men was born immaculate”(sermon 24 in Nativ. Dom.).
.N.D. Kelly comments:
“Origen insisted that, like all human beings, she [Mary] needed redemption from her sins; in particular, he interpreted Simeon’s prophecy (Luke 2, 35) that a sword would pierce her soul as confirming that she had been invaded with doubts when she saw her Son crucified.” (Early Christian Doctrines [San Francisco, California: HarperCollins Publishers, 1978], p. 493)
Its not necessary to know the specific sins of people to claim they are sinners. There mere fact that they are conceived through a a man and woman causes them to inherit the sin of Adam.
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CentralFLJames
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I am no linguists either. But conceptually, and semantically, a masculine form seems to be conspicuous in implying at best around “half” or “many” in its semantic silence of the feminine context through gender exclusion. Yes?
James
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jmcrae
Guest
Is this an admission that there is nothing in Scripture to signify that Mary ever sinned?
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mercygate
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Sorry. Can’t play that card here!I am no linguists either. But conceptually, and semantically, a masculine form seems to be conspicuous in implying at best around “half” or “many” in its semantic silence of the feminine context through gender exclusion. Yes?
James
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emeraldisle
Guest
*For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 1 Cor 15:3-4
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Now according to the Scriptures Mary was to be a virgin not a sinless virgin.
- Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Isa 7:14 *
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Rom 5:12.
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jmcrae
Guest
A person who is saved is no longer a sinner. If Mary was saved, then she was not at the same time a sinner.
St. Augustine was strongly influenced by the Manicheans, who believed that all flesh is sinful. This led to some unfortunate conclusions in many of his writings, including that sex between married persons is sinful, as well. When it comes to matters of “the flesh,” St. Augustine is simply not a reliable source, even though on other subjects, he is better than most.
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sandusky
Guest
In Mt 16:18, the “bedrock” (Gk petra), upon which Christ will build His church is "feminine."I am no linguists either. But conceptually, and semantically, a masculine form seems to be conspicuous in implying at best around “half” or “many” in its semantic silence of the feminine context through gender exclusion. Yes?
James
Now what do you do, James? Repent, perhaps?
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emeraldisle
Guest
Is there anything in Scripture that says “Emeraldisle” told a lie in “somedate” 2002?
Am I along with Mary part of sinful humanity?
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Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Rom 5:12.*
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jmcrae
Guest
No, of course not. The canon of the Scriptures predates such an event by nearly two millenia.
You are a human being, but if you are in Christ, then it is to be hoped that you are not “sinful” - have your sins not been washed away in His blood? If they have, then you are no longer a “sinner” - you are among the redeemed, alongside Mary, who was redeemed at the moment of her conception.
Consider the context. He is saying that without Christ, we are in our sins. But with Christ, our sins are washed away, and we become righteous (that is, without sin).
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