Why doesn't the Church teach Judas isn't in hell

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Yes, I believe Jesus knew that Judas would betray him, and sure enough, Judas did. It does not necessarily follow that Jesus read tea leaves, gazed into chrystal balls, or found omens in the stars. Neither does it mean that the human person of Jesus knew every future event from the discovery of antibiotics to the results of the O.J. Simpson trial. Perhaps he did, but I don’t think so. It is enough for me to know that Jesus died for my sins and rose from the dead in fulfillment of the scriptures. The rest I’ll leave with God.
If Jesus died for your sins that means he knew you, Tsuwano, personally, while he was on that cross in the midst of His passion. He knew you because He is the One that you are leaving the rest with, God. Jesus had command of the wind and the waves because He was there in the Creation, He knew everything about every one He ever had contact with, and He had contact with you when He was on the cross.
 
Yes, I believe Jesus knew that Judas would betray him, and sure enough, Judas did. It does not necessarily follow that Jesus read tea leaves, gazed into chrystal balls, or found omens in the stars. Neither does it mean that the human person of Jesus knew every future event from the discovery of antibiotics to the results of the O.J. Simpson trial. Perhaps he did, but I don’t think so. It is enough for me to know that Jesus died for my sins and rose from the dead in fulfillment of the scriptures. The rest I’ll leave with God.
:rolleyes: I agree Tsuwano, Christ did not practice pagan rituals such as reading tea leaves and gazing into crystal balls.
 
I think you make some assumptions that shouldn’t be made. One assumption is that Jesus knew the future. I’m not sure what you mean by this. I think Jesus was able to predict the outcome of his actions if he remained faithful to his mission, and his faith gave him certainty that he would rise from the dead, but I think it would be a mistake to think Jesus knew the future as if he was a fortune teller. I think this view diminishes the faith and suffering of Jesus. The second assumption you make is that Jesus clearly says that Judas is in hell. Obviously, if it was so clear you wouldn’t have raised the question about it. The Church makes no judgement on who is in hell because it is only God who makes that condemnation. We have no way of knowing what state of mind Judas found himself in during the last minutes of his life. He could very easily have been insane. What Jesus does say, and this could come about merely through observation of the man, is that Judas would suffer greatly as a result of his act of betrayal. We know this to be true because Judas appears to have hanged himself. Personally, I would prefer to believe in the saving power of God’s grace to overcome all obstacles and save Judas, than in the destructive power of Satan to claim him as his own. Of course, it may be that Judas is in hell, but I prefer to think he rests in the bosom of God.
You are correct in saying that the Church makes to judgement as to who is, or is not, in Hell. Jesus,also, teaches that the road to Heaven is very narrow. We must not delude ourselves into thinking that everyone goes to Heaven.
We cannont allow ourselves to fall into the Protestant way of thinking of “once saved, always saved”.
I’ve found myself disagreeing with most of what you’ve shared on your thoughts of Jesus. Jesus is God. He is the Word of God Made Flesh. His thoughts were God’s thoughts. That was why he knew exactly what the Pharisees were thinking everytime they tried to trip him up with the questions they’d ask him. That was why His word alone could drive out a demon from a possessed person. When you look up on Jesus, you are seeing God. :signofcross:
 
Is it in the Gospel of St. Matthew (not sure) that states that Judas took the money to buy the potter’s field…later called the “field of blood”? He then fell headlong and burst open and his insides spilled out. This might imply that he did not feel remorse.
Satan was a Seraphim…the highest type of angel. He was cast out of Heaven and into Hell when he said “I will not serve” (God). Judas betrayed God in the human person of Jesus…just a thought…🤷
 
even though Jesus said “it would have been better if he had not be born”?

I’m trying to understand this.

Jesus seems to clearly say that Judas will go to hell and Jesus was perfect and knew the future.

So why doesn’t the church teach he is in hell?
What purpose would this serve? The church is here as a shepherd for us, not for the past.
It really at this point doesn’t help anyone to know where he is. So the church busies itself with other matters what are important.

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.
 
I will have to respectfully disagree. From a Catholic Answers tract:

*Christ used hyperbole often, for example when he declared, “If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell” (Matt. 5:29, cf. 18:9; Mark 9:47). Christ certainly did not intend this to be applied literally, for otherwise all Christians would be blind amputees! (cf. 1 John 1:8; 1 Tim. 1:15). We are all subject to “the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the pride of life” (1 John 2:16).

Since Jesus is demonstrably using hyperbole when he says not to call anyone our father—else we would not be able to refer to our earthly fathers as such—we must read his words carefully and with sensitivity to the presence of hyperbole if we wish to understand what he is saying.*

Jesus did use hyperbole alot. Whether or not this particular saying was a reference to Job is besides the point. As others have already said, Judas’ return of his payment as well as his suicide strongly imply a great sense of guilt, shame and despair. The Church does not teach definitively that Judas is in Hell because we cannot know whether God may have made a special intervention so that Judas might have had an opportunity, before his soul was separated from his body, in which he may have been able to turn that despair and shame which drove him to suicide into true contrition and repentance.
Jesus’ statements about plucking out your eye and cutting off your hand are again, a rabbi using the common teaching technique of remez. Jesus is hinting at Zecheriah 11 where the prophet speaks about worthless shepherds who do not care for their sheep.

For lo, I am raising up in the land a shepherd who does not care for the perishing, or seek the wandering, or heal the maimed, or nourish the sound, but devours the flesh of the fat ones, tearing off even their hoofs.
Woe to my worthless shepherd,
who deserts the flock!
May the sword smite his arm
and his right eye!
Let his arm be wholly withered,
his right eye utterly blinded!
"
(Zechariah 11:16-17)


Plucking out your eye and cutting off your hand would have been understood by the Jews who heard him, Jews who were familiar with the Old Testament scriptures, as a way of saying that the worthless shepherds, the Temple authorities, scribes, Sadducees and Pharisees should be removed from the midst of Israel.

There are many Old Testament references to a withered right hand as a sign of God’s displeasure. The Prime Minister literally sat to the right of the King. That’s where we get the phrase “right hand man.” Christ was about to wither God’s right hand, to cut off the temple authorities and hypocritical Jewish teachers.

Jesus heals a man with a withered right hand in Matthew 12 and speaks of rescuing a sheep.

And behold, there was a man with a withered hand. And they asked him, “Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath?” so that they might accuse him. He said to them, “What man of you, if he has one sheep and it falls into a pit on the sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out? Of how much more value is a man than a sheep! So it is lawful to do good on the sabbath.” Then he said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” And the man stretched it out, and it was restored, whole like the other. But the Pharisees went out and took counsel against him, how to destroy him.(Matthew 12:10,13-14)

The Pharisees seek to destroy Jesus because they know the reference to sheep and to a withered right hand are references to their corrupt leadership.

Jesus isn’t using hyperbole when he cautions against calling anyone Father. He is talking about Abraham, the “Father of faith.”

I don’t know anything about the tract you cite and I don’t presume to argue against it. I do say however, that almost everything Jesus says which many attribute to hyperbole actually have a basis in the Old Testament scriptures. Remember that Jesus amazed the temple authorities with his knowledge when he was but twelve years old.

I’m sorry if I have disturbed anyone or contradicted something written by a CAF apologist but the fact is that Jesus often references Old Testament scripture, especially when he assumes a rabbinical teaching role.

-Tim-
 
Just to be fair here, the idea that it would be better for him to not have been born isn’t implicitly stating that Judas is in Hell.

If they said, it would be better for him to not have been created would probably indicate that with certainty, though.

Take, for example, a stillborn. No birth, no pain, no suffering; presumably, unity with the Holy Father. Now, Judas. Birth, suffering and pain. Let’s say he gets Heaven, just for the sake of argument. Say, though, that Judas was stillborn. Again, we’ll say Heaven, but he wouldn’t have suffered or had pain on the way.

Thus, that it be better for him to not have been born can merely indicate that his life was suffering, and the ultimate destination (Heaven) could have been reached more happily just by being stillborn.

Not that I have an opinion on Judas, I’m just saying, the argument is flawed.
 
You are correct in saying that the Church makes to judgement as to who is, or is not, in Hell. Jesus,also, teaches that the road to Heaven is very narrow. We must not delude ourselves into thinking that everyone goes to Heaven.
We cannont allow ourselves to fall into the Protestant way of thinking of “once saved, always saved”.
I’ve found myself disagreeing with most of what you’ve shared on your thoughts of Jesus. Jesus is God. He is the Word of God Made Flesh. His thoughts were God’s thoughts. That was why he knew exactly what the Pharisees were thinking everytime they tried to trip him up with the questions they’d ask him. That was why His word alone could drive out a demon from a possessed person. When you look up on Jesus, you are seeing God. :signofcross:
A true Protestant, one that adheres to the word of God, would not think that “everyone goes to heaven”. There are those who believe in the “once saved, always saved”, but they also believe the verse from St. John letters to believers that states, regarding unbelievers and false Christians, “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.”
 
What purpose would this serve? The church is here as a shepherd for us, not for the past.
It really at this point doesn’t help anyone to know where he is. So the church busies itself with other matters what are important.

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.
Well, I agree with you to an extent. But there are so many heresies stating that “there is no hell” or “no one goes to the real hell but apostate Mormons” or “in the end Jesus will save everyone including Lucifer himself because Jesus died for everyone, including Lucifer himself”. I have come across people and even family members that have uttered these words. I have had to defend my beliefs plenty. It is beneficial to discuss such things in my opinion.
 
Just to be fair here, the idea that it would be better for him to not have been born isn’t implicitly stating that Judas is in Hell.

If they said, it would be better for him to not have been created would probably indicate that with certainty, though.

Take, for example, a stillborn. No birth, no pain, no suffering; presumably, unity with the Holy Father. Now, Judas. Birth, suffering and pain. Let’s say he gets Heaven, just for the sake of argument. Say, though, that Judas was stillborn. Again, we’ll say Heaven, but he wouldn’t have suffered or had pain on the way.

Thus, that it be better for him to not have been born can merely indicate that his life was suffering, and the ultimate destination (Heaven) could have been reached more happily just by being stillborn.

Not that I have an opinion on Judas, I’m just saying, the argument is flawed.
I disagree. I think it’s very much implicit, though perhaps not explicit (I think it’s pretty explicit, but there’s no dogma on it), that Judas is in Hell. If it would have been better that Judas had never been born simply because of his pain in life, then I guess the same applies to pretty much every person, because most people don’t go through life riding silver clouds. I can make the most sense of Jesus’ words when I interpret them the same way that almost every Christian in history has, which is that Judas is doomed to Hell.

I have the same supposition towards every “bad person” in scripture, where we are given no sign that they repent. Things that look and sound like goats are probably goats. Things that look and sound like sheep are probably sheep. This is the best way of viewing the world in my opinion, otherwise we either risk being dismally paranoid or helplessly naive, neither of which are helpful. I believe the excess of optimism that has grown among contemporary Western Catholics has been harmful to evangelization.
 
Jesus’ statements about plucking out your eye and cutting off your hand are again, a rabbi using the common teaching technique of remez. Jesus is hinting at Zecheriah 11 where the prophet speaks about worthless shepherds who do not care for their sheep.

For lo, I am raising up in the land a shepherd who does not care for the perishing, or seek the wandering, or heal the maimed, or nourish the sound, but devours the flesh of the fat ones, tearing off even their hoofs.
Woe to my worthless shepherd,
who deserts the flock!
May the sword smite his arm
and his right eye!
Let his arm be wholly withered,
his right eye utterly blinded!
"
(Zechariah 11:16-17)

Plucking out your eye and cutting off your hand would have been understood by the Jews who heard him, Jews who were familiar with the Old Testament scriptures, as a way of saying that the worthless shepherds, the Temple authorities, scribes, Sadducees and Pharisees should be removed from the midst of Israel.

There are many Old Testament references to a withered right hand as a sign of God’s displeasure. The Prime Minister literally sat to the right of the King. That’s where we get the phrase “right hand man.” Christ was about to wither God’s right hand, to cut off the temple authorities and hypocritical Jewish teachers.

Jesus heals a man with a withered right hand in Matthew 12 and speaks of rescuing a sheep.

And behold, there was a man with a withered hand. And they asked him, “Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath?” so that they might accuse him. He said to them, “What man of you, if he has one sheep and it falls into a pit on the sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out? Of how much more value is a man than a sheep! So it is lawful to do good on the sabbath.” Then he said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” And the man stretched it out, and it was restored, whole like the other. But the Pharisees went out and took counsel against him, how to destroy him.(Matthew 12:10,13-14)

The Pharisees seek to destroy Jesus because they know the reference to sheep and to a withered right hand are references to their corrupt leadership.

Jesus isn’t using hyperbole when he cautions against calling anyone Father. He is talking about Abraham, the “Father of faith.”

I don’t know anything about the tract you cite and I don’t presume to argue against it. I do say however, that almost everything Jesus says which many attribute to hyperbole actually have a basis in the Old Testament scriptures. Remember that Jesus amazed the temple authorities with his knowledge when he was but twelve years old.

I’m sorry if I have disturbed anyone or contradicted something written by a CAF apologist but the fact is that Jesus often references Old Testament scripture, especially when he assumes a rabbinical teaching role.

-Tim-
I don’t deny that he may be making reference to these Scriptures, but the way in which he employs those references is hyperbolic.
 
I recall a story told me by a famed theologian.

*"Having gone to Heaven, a man, after for some time enjoying bliss, was disturbed to note that only one person seemed unhappy: Jesus Himself. The man approached Him, and said, ‘Lord, how can You, of all people, be unhappy in this wonderful dwelling place You have made and peopled by Your sacrifice with those who love You?’

“Jesus raised a tear-stained face to the man and said, ‘I miss Judas.’”*

People seem to forget that it would be better, arguably, for any unrepentant sinner if he or she had never been born, not just Judas. Unless you know the mind of God, best to assume that He’s capable of making a decision regarding the disposition of any soul, including that of Judas.

And I’m not a new member. I just never post. 😃
 
I recall a story told me by a famed theologian.

*"Having gone to Heaven, a man, after for some time enjoying bliss, was disturbed to note that only one person seemed unhappy: Jesus Himself. The man approached Him, and said, ‘Lord, how can You, of all people, be unhappy in this wonderful dwelling place You have made and peopled by Your sacrifice with those who love You?’

“Jesus raised a tear-stained face to the man and said, ‘I miss Judas.’”*

People seem to forget that it would be better, arguably, for any unrepentant sinner if he or she had never been born, not just Judas. Unless you know the mind of God, best to assume that He’s capable of making a decision regarding the disposition of any soul, including that of Judas.

And I’m not a new member. I just never post. 😃
But you have 24 posts to your name. 😉

In echoing what many posters have said, we who are still alive are not privy to God’s judgement which is His and His alone. If God does not say categorically that Judas is in hell so neither do we.

However Jesus’ words, “… wish that he’s never been born …” can mean a few things here and it’s for us to assume. Perhaps one would be the unfortunate role of Judas in the history of our salvation - that he should be the one to betray Jesus and how he (Judas) suffered this action.

But without Judas, would we have Jesus crucified on the cross? Would we have our salvation? Sure God will have a way to fulfil his plan but in this particular way, Judas certainly was involved and part of the whole scenario.

Another food for thought.
 
However Jesus’ words, “… wish that he’s never been born …” can mean a few things here and it’s for us to assume. Perhaps one would be the unfortunate role of Judas in the history of our salvation - that he should be the one to betray Jesus and how he (Judas) suffered this action.

But without Judas, would we have Jesus crucified on the cross? Would we have our salvation? Sure God will have a way to fulfil his plan but in this particular way, Judas certainly was involved and part of the whole scenario.

Another food for thought.
Sin is not a mechanism for salvation. Mary, John the Baptist, the Apostles, and all disciples to the present day and beyond serve as instruments for God. Sin is not an instrument, it is the anithesis of it… It is the reason our innocent Lord was put on the cross. Judas was in no way instrumental to this. In fact, we read on several occasions in the gospels that Jesus was sparred from being slain precisely because his time had not yet come. Providence was forestalling his fate until the appointed time. Perhaps this was done to show Jesus triumphing in spite of even one of his very own apostles betraying him. We don’t know, however we do know that evil is - by definition of being evil - not one of the works of God.
 
Obviously there is no defending sin.

What is exactly Judas’ sin? If he was to go for Confession what would he confess? Would it be a venial or a mortal sin? Hypothetically, if he regretted committing it, would that sin be forgiven, even if it was one against Jesus himself?
 
Obviously there is no defending sin.

What is exactly Judas’ sin? If he was to go for Confession what would he confess? Would it be a venial or a mortal sin? Hypothetically, if he regretted committing it, would that sin be forgiven, even if it was one against Jesus himself?
A curious thought about Confession Reuben J. and it has caused me to think a bit. I went back to the accounts of Judas in the Bible and came up with a few points. Judas was known to Christ all along as the one who would betray Him as John 6:64 states clearly. As a matter of fact, Jesus chose Him for that purpose so that scripture might be fulfilled as said in John 13:18-30. Judas was a dishonest disciple who stole from the money bag and chastised the woman who anointed Christ with the very expensive perfume so says the story in Mark 14. The passage says Judas suggested a “better” use. The money used to purchase the perfume should have been used for the poor, but the passage says essentially Judas wanted to take the money for his pleasure. Judas made a visit to the chief priests in Matthew 26 and specifically asked how much money could be made if he delivered Christ over to them. After he found out the amount it says, “From that moment he sought an opportunity to betray [Christ]”. Judas was a money hungry thief who was using his discipleship for wealth only (sounds like the modern day Prosperity Gospel). Hence Judas is caught betraying the Saviour with 30 silver coins and a kiss. Before the end of his life Judas regrets turning in Christ because Christ had committed no crime and throws the bags back to the chief priests in Matthew 27. There are plenty of criminals in this world that feel remorse for a crime they have committed against an innocent bystander or a person in general. It does not mean they have repented of their sin to the One and True God. When all the accounts of Judas in the Bible are read, there is not one account that states Judas asked Christ the Saviour or God the Father for forgiveness. What I have found is there is a verse that is in Galatians that quotes from Deuteronomy that says, “Cursed is he that hangeth on a tree”. If you are cursed, are you saved as well?

There is one more report of Judas in Acts 1 where St. Peter describes what had transpired. Upon reading that, one may get the impression that Judas did not have a favorable destination. All who knew about Judas’ death and where it took place, named it Alkedama “the Field of Blood”. No one came and took Judas off the tree. His body fell and burst open and decomposed in that field. According to Jewish law and custom, they were to take the hanged man off the tree so as not to “defile the land” which is stated in Deuteronomy also. That never happened with Judas. He was cursed and the land was now defiled.
 
A curious thought about Confession Reuben J. and it has caused me to think a bit. I went back to the accounts of Judas in the Bible and came up with a few points. **Judas was known to Christ all along as the one who would betray Him as John 6:64 states clearly. As a matter of fact, Jesus chose Him for that purpose so that scripture might be fulfilled as said in John 13:18-30. ** **Judas was a dishonest disciple who stole from the money bag and chastised the woman who anointed Christ with the very expensive perfume so says the story in Mark 14. ** The passage says Judas suggested a “better” use. The money used to purchase the perfume should have been used for the poor, but the passage says essentially Judas wanted to take the money for his pleasure. Judas made a visit to the chief priests in Matthew 26 and specifically asked how much money could be made if he delivered Christ over to them. After he found out the amount it says, “From that moment he sought an opportunity to betray [Christ]”. Judas was a money hungry thief who was using his discipleship for wealth only (sounds like the modern day Prosperity Gospel). Hence Judas is caught betraying the Saviour with 30 silver coins and a kiss. Before the end of his life Judas regrets turning in Christ because Christ had committed no crime and throws the bags back to the chief priests in Matthew 27. There are plenty of criminals in this world that feel remorse for a crime they have committed against an innocent bystander or a person in general. It does not mean they have repented of their sin to the One and True God. When all the accounts of Judas in the Bible are read, there is not one account that states Judas asked Christ the Saviour or God the Father for forgiveness. What I have found is there is a verse that is in **Galatians that quotes from Deuteronomy that says, “Cursed is he that hangeth on a tree”. ** If you are cursed, are you saved as well?

There is one more report of Judas in Acts 1 where St. Peter describes what had transpired. Upon reading that, one may get the impression that Judas did not have a favorable destination. All who knew about Judas’ death and where it took place, named it Alkedama “the Field of Blood”. No one came and took Judas off the tree. His body fell and burst open and decomposed in that field. According to Jewish law and custom, they were to take the hanged man off the tree so as not to “defile the land” which is stated in Deuteronomy also. That never happened with Judas. He was cursed and the land was now defiled.
Thanks for taking time to give a factual account of Judas in response to my post.

A few things here:
  1. Jesus knew that Judas would betray him and yet had him chosen as an apostle.
  2. Judas was dishonest who use the money from the coffer for his own pleasure.
  3. Judas ‘sold’ Jesus to the Sanhedrin for thirty pieces of silver.
  4. Judas was remorseful later on that his action had caused Jesus to be condemned that he returned the 30 pieces of silver. The NIV Bible says that Judas was remorseful:
    When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders. “I have sinned,” he said, “for I have betrayed innocent blood.” Mathew 27:3-4
  5. Then the unsympathetic Biblical verse, “Cursed is he that hangeth on a tree”, and that no one took Judas’ body for burial (for he was cursed).
If he went for a Confession he had to confess the times when he stole the apostles’ money for his own use and also that he sold Jesus for the silver. I am not sure how to categorize the sin for the latter. Receiving money at the expense of another person?

Realistically there are many mortals who commit more heinous and greater sin than this. If 27:3-4 is anything to go by, there was definitely remorse on Judas part that he even returned the money saying, “I have sinned,” he said, “for I have betrayed innocent blood.”

What about the fact that Jesus still selected him to be his apostle knowing that he would betray him? Would not this be in Judas’ favour? Because if not for this, he would not have a chance to betray Jesus.

Both actions (the remorse and being chosen) would surely in some ways mitigate his sin though later on the Scripture has not been kinds to him, saying that he is cursed and also the absence of his burial.

Considering the great mercy of God, surely we cannot say with absolute cetainty that Judas would be sentenced to hell for his sinful action, all things considered. He might not do his contrition properly especially for the fact that he committed suicide, which is a sin in and by itself. But didn’t Jesus say that all sins can be forgiven (except the sin against the Holy Spirit)? Would it be, in the case of Judas, that he is beyond salvation?
 
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